Cohen's beauty and polish not appreciated?

[Kwanford Wife]

come on now, EVERY fan has an "excuse" as to why their favorite skater is the "best ever" (more commonly known as "their favorite in the first place"). Otherwise, they wouldn't be a fan in the first place, right...duh!

Ha! You're wrong!! I don't have an excuse as to why Michelle is the "best ever" She simply is!!!

 

[R.D.]

Sasha beat Irina by 1.89 points in the LP and 1.92 points overall. If Sasha had been charged with a second fall she would have lost an extra 1.14 points (a couple of the judges gave her -2 instead of -3 GOE). So Sasha still would have won if everything else (the PCSs for instance) had remained the same.

Hmm. I remember being totally dumbfounded just after Irina's scores came up that Cohen actually came up with silver with a performance like that. I would have almost bet on 4th or bronze on a lucky day.

 

[R.D.]

Ha! You're wrong!! I don't have an excuse as to why Michelle is the "best ever" She simply is!!!

That's rubbish. You just don't want to admit it

 

[Kwanford Wife]

That's rubbish. You just don't want to admit it

Stop it.... you know you have a Kwan "shrine in your room surrounded in dead peoples' heads & stuff and dream about have 10,000 of her babies..."

 

[R.D.]

"shrine in your room surrounded in dead peoples' heads & stuff and dream about have 10,000 of her babies..."

Where did that quote come from? Curious minds would like to know...:scratch:

Or did you just randomly dream it up? Because if you did maybe that's what YOU'RE thinking about...

 

[SeaniBu]

Stop it.... you know you have a Kwan "shrine in your room surrounded in dead peoples' heads & stuff and dream about have 10,000 of her babies..."

You are scaring the crud out of me.

But I am sure that anyone in their right mind would not mind having a child with that wonderful lady. I bet she would make a great Mom!:agree:

 

[Mathman]

American Beauty (1999). "It's that psycho next door. Jane, what if he worships you? What if he's got a shrine with pictures of you surrounded by dead people's heads and stuff?"

BTW, the part of Jane was played by Sasha Cohen. Here she is in a still from the movie:

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0169547/Ss/0169547/23?path=gallery&path_key=0169547

 

[slutskayafan21]

Sasha beat Irina by 1.89 points in the LP and 1.92 points overall. If Sasha had been charged with a second fall she would have lost an extra 1.14 points (a couple of the judges gave her -2 instead of -3 GOE). So Sasha still would have won if everything else (the PCSs for instance) had remained the same.

I thought that Sasha's scores were appropriate, but Irina's PCSs were inflated for that particular performance.

Irina and Sasha both received very inflated scores for their long program performances, as an Irina fan I am objective enough to see that, and an objective Sasha fan SHOULD also see that. Fumie by contrast was underscored especialy compared to those two, especialy in the long program.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Ha! You're wrong!! I don't have an excuse as to why Michelle is the "best ever" She simply is!!!

Yes when you think about she could have have won the last 3 Olympics and 10 of the last 11 Worlds with just a bit more luck and everything going right(the only one with almost no chance is the 2005 Worlds IMO, so that is the one I am excluding, due to the various circumstances); and that was in a very competitive era in womens skating, with higher physical and emotional demands, and higher training and commitment standards then ever. I am not saying she should be considered to have done that or anything, just the fact it was reasonably possable is amazing to think. I wish she had in a way, in another way no since Irina is my favorite and I cheer for her to have some of those wins of course, but then it another way it would be nice for somebody to ecplise what Henjie and Witt have done because it is a bit nauseating to think those two have the most untouchable records of any skaters in history.

Both Kwan and Slutskaya are amazing for their longevity in the sport in the modern era, but as much as one can admire Irina's ability to go through down periods and rebound to the top, Kwan being able to stay very near the top for 10-11 years straight in the current period of women skating is phenomenal.

Also a skater who is able to do such technical difficulty as 7 triples and a triple toe-triple toe with reasonable consistency, and still have several legendary programs, and legendary artistry, that is incredable.

 

[R.D.]

American Beauty (1999). "It's that psycho next door. Jane, what if he worships you? What if he's got a shrine with pictures of you surrounded by dead people's heads and stuff?"

oh man. *smack head* worst part about it is I actually saw that movie (but it was awhile ago).

 

[antmanb]

American Beauty (1999). "It's that psycho next door. Jane, what if he worships you? What if he's got a shrine with pictures of you surrounded by dead people's heads and stuff?"

BTW, the part of Jane was played by Sasha Cohen. Here she is in a still from the movie:

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0169547/Ss/0169547/23?path=gallery&path_key=0169547

I have always thought she looked a lot like Sasha facially in that film!!

Ant

 

[anniemg]

The judges have been extremely generous to Cohen over the years. The international judges appreciate her, but they have taken off for her errors and weaknesses more than the US judges have. (lack of strong edges, weak landings on jumps, numerous 2 footed landings throughout her career when she was finally able to land her jumps, weak technique at times)
Her "beauty and form" have always been rewarded and I don't know that it was a good thing for Cohen. From inside sources, Cohen always thought this would "hold her up." I guess she was wrong at Worlds!
Her Olympic Silver was a huge gift and proof that the international judges love her. Her spot on the World podium could also be debated, and for obvious reasons.

I dont think that the fact that the international judges have been 'extremely generous' to her for her 'beauty and form' is so bad. Isnt figure skating suppose to be an artistic sport? It's not just about the jumps, is an art. And being artistic, 'beautiful' and have good form should IMO be just as important as jumping, or the lack of strong edges that you mention. Someone could say that Slutskaya who is so strong at jumping is also 'held up' because she doesnt have Sasha's 'beauty'. It's so subjective. But you can't look at Sasha Cohen and not appreciate her perfect form and her style on ice. It needs to be rewarded. You just have to give something more than the others for that straight/pointed toes/180 degrees spiral damn it!(that's just an exemple.)

just my opinion!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

anniemg - Some of us believe FS is sport executed in a stylized way. It's definitely not in the same category as Beethoven, Da Vinci, Shakespeare, etc.

It is at times, though, somewhat entertaining like a fun summer movie.

Joe

 

[Kwanford Wife]

American Beauty (1999). "It's that psycho next door. Jane, what if he worships you? What if he's got a shrine with pictures of you surrounded by dead people's heads and stuff?"

BTW, the part of Jane was played by Sasha Cohen. Here she is in a still from the movie:

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0169547/Ss/0169547/23?path=gallery&path_key=0169547

Excellent! Mathman, you get a big ol' fat A for your "pop culture appreciation" final exam... American Beauty is the best movie EVER!!!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Excellent! Mathman, you get a big ol' fat A for your "pop culture appreciation" final exam... American Beauty is the best movie EVER!!!

One complaint I read about American Beauty was that the only sane characters in that movie were the two gay guys. Everyone else was sickeroo.

Joe

 

[Kwanford Wife]

One complaint I read about American Beauty was that the only sane characters in that movie were the two gay guys. Everyone else was sickeroo.

Joe

Absolutely... which just adds to its overall awesomeness... just a fabulous movie...

As for Sasha's beauty & polish not being appreciated ~ I simply don't see this. Sasha has all the talent in the world and its rewarded... but the simple fact remains that if she wants the big titles, she needs to land the jumps when it counts. Because she fails to do that, she fails to win IMO.

 

[MKFSfan]

Another twist on this tpoic: Do the judges appreciate Alissa's "perfect positions, more elegant movement, and cleaner lines" than other competitors? IMO, Alissa has more flexibility (which I think actually hinders her jumping) and better spins than Sasha. But what she lacks is in her jump technique and that's what holds her back. We've grown accustomed to Sasha's 1-2 mistakes in the LP, but she can also skate the rest of her program well, and deliver a strong SP. Alissa is even more inconsistent than Sasha and has a tendency to pop multiple jumps or fall hard in competitions.

So, does this mean she's not appreciated? No. IMO, it doesn't matter how much beauty and poise she shows, or how pretty her pointed toes are, she has to land the jumps in this sport.

 

[R.D.]

Absolutely... which just adds to its overall awesomeness... just a fabulous movie...

Yeah...wasn't bad at all

As for Sasha's beauty & polish not being appreciated ~ I simply don't see this. Sasha has all the talent in the world and its rewarded... but the simple fact remains that if she wants the big titles, she needs to land the jumps when it counts. Because she fails to do that, she fails to win IMO.

Yes. But remember it's not about "not falling". It's about being the best skater that night, and sometimes the best skater that night falls or stumbles. But in Cohen's case someone has always taken advantage of her missteps, hence her not winning. But I agree.

 

[attyfan]

Another twist on this tpoic: Do the judges appreciate Alissa's "perfect positions, more elegant movement, and cleaner lines" than other competitors? IMO, Alissa has more flexibility (which I think actually hinders her jumping) and better spins than Sasha. But what she lacks is in her jump technique and that's what holds her back. We've grown accustomed to Sasha's 1-2 mistakes in the LP, but she can also skate the rest of her program well, and deliver a strong SP. Alissa is even more inconsistent than Sasha and has a tendency to pop multiple jumps or fall hard in competitions.

So, does this mean she's not appreciated? No. IMO, it doesn't matter how much beauty and poise she shows, or how pretty her pointed toes are, she has to land the jumps in this sport.

IIRC, last season, Alissa landed most of her jumps at SA, and all of them at SC, but fell apart at Nats. Wasn't last season her GP debut? If so, it may be too early to determine if Alissa has any more problems than just succumbing to competition pressures

I think, though, that she does get due credit for her positions, elegance, etc. -- when she lands all (or most) of her jumps, she gets rewarded (SA & SC), but she has the same problem that Sasha has got -- the other skaters who can also do beautiful spins and spirals -- but can land the jumps when it counts.

 

[R.D.]

but she fell at campbell's beforehand, the GPF, and I think some competitions after nats as well?