Sasha discouraged by judges not giving her major title due to jump errors?

Mafke · Nov 30, 2006

Kwanford Wife said:
This thread is the reason people don't take figure skating seriously as a sport...

Sasha has failed to win multiple national titles, a world or olympic gold because she falls down in the long program and has shady technique... its unfortunate, but its true.

I disagree with your first point, one biased fan tried to portray Cohen as being judged overly harshly and everybody else (unless I missed a dissenter or two) has chimed in with your second point, Cohen hasn't won a major because she hasn't skated well enough.

I'd say (though it breaks my heart) announcers like Button are the reason people don't take skating seriously. Hyping and praising a competitor with such shaky basic technique is commentarial malpractice.

Kwanford Wife · Nov 30, 2006

Mafke said:
I disagree with your first point, one biased fan tried to portray Cohen as being judged overly harshly and everybody else (unless I missed a dissenter or two) has chimed in with your second point, Cohen hasn't won a major because she hasn't skated well enough.

I'd say (though it breaks my heart) announcers like Button are the reason people don't take skating seriously. Hyping and praising a competitor with such shaky basic technique is commentarial malpractice.

But its not one biased fan... the boards are full of people (myself included on occassion...) who scream that someone was "cheated" out of a title because of the judging ~ regardless of that actual performance. Dick Button can be abit much at times, but I blame us hardcore fans for the sport being unable to capture the general public's attention outside of the olympic season...

Why? Because we sit & whine & grouse about how pointed toes and arm expression should count more than reaching a certain level of technical perfection. Either a figure skater is an elite athlete who should perform at an elite athlete standard or they aren't. Skate fanatics cannot have it both ways. And as long as we think we can, then the sport won't be taken seriously.

R.D. · Nov 30, 2006

Right on KW.

Kwanford Wife · Nov 30, 2006

Red Dog said:
Right on KW.

Isn't funny just how mature & logical I can be now that Michelle isn't competing anymore...

Tonichelle · Nov 30, 2006

Kwanford Wife said:
Isn't funny just how mature & logical I can be now that Michelle isn't competing anymore...

I've noticed that irony myself lol:chorus: :rofl:

Mathman · Nov 30, 2006

Good point. But then again, to me... what raises figure skating above the status of a mere sport is that, OK, there is the first mark...and then the second.

R.D. · Nov 30, 2006

Basically, in sports you don't have to look nice or express yourself. In skating, you do. And maybe a couple others I forgot.

Wolfgang · Nov 30, 2006

Looks to me like Sasha has figured out two very important facts:
a) Judging in FS is as suspect today as it was 20 years ago, the methods have just gotten slightly sneakier.
b) There's A LOT more money in movies (even bad ones) with A LOT LESS work involved than in FS, and virtually no risk of injury, either.....

Fossi · Nov 30, 2006

I don't think Sasha is discouraged at all with the judges scores. She has been given quite a few gifts in her career, the bronze at Worlds '06 and some question her silver at the Olympics.
Nobody should expect a title to be handed to her because she is a "has potential." The other skaters work hard and have just as much potential. If she's outskated, which she has been several times, then she shouldn't be given higher scores just because Dick and Peggy don't call her mistakes. Dick and Peggy aren't the judges.
I also disagree that Sasha should've been 2nd at all at Olympics '02. She had horrible edges, poor ice coverage, wobbly spirals and was very, very slow. She had determination, but that doesn't mean she should've beaten other skaters that were just as determined.
I agree with AttyFan that stated Dick and Peggy didn't do Sasha any favors. Neither did Team Cohen. They surrounded her with toomuch hype. She couldn't live up it to. It hurt her more than it helped.
did she ever land that quad she was being called the Quad Queen about?

slutskayafan21 · Nov 30, 2006

It is hilarious to hear Sasha called the quad clean when she never came close to landing one of her attempts in competition even once. Granted for a women to be trying a quad is remarkable but who is to say there are other women who couldnt have done as good or better an attempt, but were not willing to jeapordize the whole program for what amounts to a certain trick you land 1 out of 10 times in practice(as I heard was Sasha's success rate). Anyway Surya Bonaly had MUCH better quad attempts then any of Sasha's her quad attempts at the 1991 Worlds and 1992 Olympics were wonderful, with only a quarter turn cheat so sadly they werent quite ratified. It is a shame she did not get more credit for it in the technical scores I thought, even with her other mistakes, then she did.

Joesitz (RIP) · Nov 30, 2006

I think Miki landed one in a Japanese Nats.

MKFSfan · Nov 30, 2006

^^^I think it was at the Jr. GPF???

heyang · Dec 1, 2006

I think Miki has the title of Quad Queen since she's the only lady to land it in competition. Practiced doesn't count because it lacks the competitive pressure.

R.D. · Dec 2, 2006

Let's she if she can do it again, though.

Vash01 · Dec 2, 2006

The judges have been more than fair to Sasha. They have given her high marks (remember the 6.0 with a fall at the US nationals in 2004?) simply for looking beautiful on the ice. Her edges and speed did not
compare with Kwan's (or Shizuka's or Irina's). What Kwan had was more than consistency. She had great skating skills and great interpretation of the music. Under 6.0 those things counted a lot. The 6.0 system was not about how many times you change positions in a spin or in a spiral. Sasha had many opportunities to win, even with so-so basic skating skills, but she always made mistakes at key points, and then the program went downhill. Eventually she did learn to fight back after mistakes (2005 worlds, 2006 Olys) but when others skate better and without mistakes, Sasha has no chance. The reason she did not win any major titles is herself; not the judges.

Vash01 · Dec 2, 2006

Red Dog said:
Let's she if she can do it again, though.

Miki has landed quad salchows recently in practice. I think she will land one, one of these days. In any case she remains the only female to have landed one in a competition. Many top men are not doing quad salchows, so it is to her credit that she is even working on it.

R.D. · Dec 2, 2006

Hope she's successful.

Fossi · Dec 2, 2006

Red Dog said:
Let's she if she can do it again, though.

At least she did land it once and if there was hype it was for a reason.

I wonder if Mao, Kimmie and whoever else will ever land their 3axels again? Does it really matter though?

R.D. · Dec 2, 2006

I admire the two of them for trying, though. Hope Kimmie lands hers!

But I think the two of them will eventually wise up and drop them for other elements.

Mathman · Dec 2, 2006

In the case of Mao, I think she really can do a triple Axel. If this turns out to be the case, then, yes, I think it does matter. Having a no-fooling triple Axel is like having a reliable quad for the men. It frees up your program and gives you a broader choice of other elements to do without worrying about Zayak rules.

Sasha discouraged by judges not giving her major title due to jump errors?

Mafke

Kwanford Wife

R.D.

Kwanford Wife

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

Mathman

R.D.

Wolfgang

Fossi

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty

Joesitz (RIP)

MKFSfan

heyang

R.D.

Vash01

Vash01

R.D.

Fossi

R.D.

Mathman

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