What to expect from Caroline?

Thanks for that analysis MM - I love reading these kinds of posts/threads!!!

I think this nails for me what I most love about COP - it's supposed to be about what is performed in absolute terms. Sure are many things to critique, but I love that it allows for this kind of discussion and comparisons.

Thanks, Emma. Yeah, I love all these numbers, too.

I don't know whether it makes for better judging, but it gives us something to do in the off season.

feraina said:

But that implies to me that the relatively low PCS (compared to TES) may more be due to the judge's subjective expectations rather than the skater's actual abilities. Can it be that all junior skaters have PCS capabilities that make up exactly 45% of their scores?

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In seniors there are some exceptions that stand out. "Everybody knows" (certainly the judges do) that Yu-na Kim has totally captivating presentation, even when falling down. Sure enough, in her worlds LP her tech score tanked (relatively speaking) when she fell on both of her Lutz attempts and also ended up getting 0 points for a fourth combo/sequence because of it.

But that did not take her PCSs down with the TES.

Carolina Kostner is well-known to be a great skater and a podium contender at worlds, so even when she missed her jumps she was not doubly penalized as a skater with a lesser reputation might have been.

"Everybody knows" that Alissa Czisny is going to struggle on her jumps and skate her other elements exquisitely, so I think there is a "reputation factor" that predisposes the judges in that direction.

I think that at the junior level the skater's don't yet have a "reputation," so maybe the judges tend more to go with the flow -- well, that was pretty good, she hit a nice triple flip and a triple loop combo, I guess I'll give her 6.25s in PCSs across the board.

Mathman said:

well, that was pretty good, she hit a nice triple flip and a triple loop combo, I guess I'll give her 6.25s in PCSs across the board.

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!!! Totally against the original intention of the PCS, of course...

feraina said:

Along this vein of jumps versus spins + spirals + step seq's, I found this careful analysis of Code of Point.
http://www.worldskating.org/news/sonia-cop.shtml

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That article ignores the 1 point deduction with regards to falls on jumps. But the negative GOE marks do need to be modified for jumps. You DO get a little too much credit for falling on a Quad.

~Z

I think the article was written in the first year of the CoP, before they put in the rule about fall deductions. Several of the other points that Ms. Bianchetti discusses have also been addressed to some extent.

feraina said:

!!! Totally against the original intention of the PCS, of course...

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Most of us do, but apparently, there will be no slate of separate judges for the P
CS

Tara and Rachael

i've noticed that both Tara (had) and Rachael have high kicks in their toe jumps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJjEX7TmOcw Tara

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU5OcvmzYr0 Rachael

Caroline isn't the only one with a flawed technique.

Go Caroline!!

carolinefan177 said:

i've noticed that both Tara (had) and Rachael have high kicks in their toe jumps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJjEX7TmOcw Tara

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU5OcvmzYr0 Rachael

Caroline isn't the only one with a flawed technique.

Go Caroline!!

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Looking at the SP of both skaters: same jump content

Flatt's SP from US Nationals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hvYIYkNjfM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAhWnwAvd4M
(slow motion of the 3Lz-3T)
Flatt's power angle on the lutz and flip..she extends from the hip, not lifting the leg beyond the height of the hip or waist. At most, parallel to the ice, but not above her hip.Very slightly bent knee on the Lutz.
Zhang's SP from JW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVIZDrxjJxc
Zhang's lutz: a slight bounce in the picking leg just prior to the initiation of the pick, which causes her leg to go above her hip level with a noticeable turn of the leg. This action is more pronounced in the flip with Zhang leaning forward.