Article from the Hartford Courant, 12/26/07, "SKATE BORED"
http://www.courant.com/sports/other/hc-skating1226.artdec26,0,7602361.story
http://www.courant.com/sports/other/hc-skating1226.artdec26,0,7602361.story
"Skate Bored"
- Thread starter Geesesk8
- Start date
Well, of all the doom and gloom in that article, this is the most promising. As long as there is interest at the club level we can always at least have contenders for years to come.
I think there is still a lot of skating on TV actually. It may not be in the volumes it was 10 years ago, but there is a Disson skating show on NBC practically every weekend this time of year, as well as on Christmas and New Year's. The problem is that ESPN counterprograms to these with their week-old GP telecasts. I will tell you now that even though I had access to cable this weekend, I watched not so much as a second of the GPF. I was switching between football and the NBC show instead. (Kimmie seems to be coming out nicely btw). And anyone who watched the NBC show must have seen at least three ads for Nationals next month.
I think there is a lull in US skating now, while our young ones are still developing and our top skaters are going through slumps. Only time will tell whether we can bounce back but for now, I don't blame folks at all for tuning out. After all, I'm doing the same...I plan to watch Nationals next month though. NBC and ESPN need to get folks that REALLY understand this new scoring system and know how to explain it in clear fashion to the viewers.
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- Jul 11, 2003
Who is Goodwin? I don't know where Naumov's views ends and hers begins.
He is, of course, quite correct to cite the SLC Scandal which the American media adored. The little girl's sport was fraught with dishonesty. What could be better copy than getting those Sunday afternoon faux competitions off the airwaves. No more non-serious competitions because remotes were switching channels to more serious sports. Eventually figure skating went to cable and soon to be off completely except for one TV mogul needing the US Nats and 2009 Worlds to drive up interest for the 2010 Olys which it has sunk a lot of money into based on past performances.
The Sport as we know it attracts little girls in the US quite a bit more than little boys, but that's the way it goes in US skateland. The media could make it more interesting for little boys but.... Hockey anyone?
Blaming Cinquanta for secrecy in judging is a good point, but it hardly drove away millions of casual fans who didn't even know which judge was what in the 6.0 System. However, keeping the Sport in semi secrecy still bugs me.
I don't follow the sport in other countries other than to read who won their Nats and the occasional youtube look. I have no idea how popular the sport is, but I can understand if percentage wise, Russia and Japan interest is higher.
Can the US find a 'star' to attract more Americans? Dunno if they can and if so, will she be enough to get the casual fans back?
Joe
He is, of course, quite correct to cite the SLC Scandal which the American media adored. The little girl's sport was fraught with dishonesty. What could be better copy than getting those Sunday afternoon faux competitions off the airwaves. No more non-serious competitions because remotes were switching channels to more serious sports. Eventually figure skating went to cable and soon to be off completely except for one TV mogul needing the US Nats and 2009 Worlds to drive up interest for the 2010 Olys which it has sunk a lot of money into based on past performances.
The Sport as we know it attracts little girls in the US quite a bit more than little boys, but that's the way it goes in US skateland. The media could make it more interesting for little boys but.... Hockey anyone?
Blaming Cinquanta for secrecy in judging is a good point, but it hardly drove away millions of casual fans who didn't even know which judge was what in the 6.0 System. However, keeping the Sport in semi secrecy still bugs me.
I don't follow the sport in other countries other than to read who won their Nats and the occasional youtube look. I have no idea how popular the sport is, but I can understand if percentage wise, Russia and Japan interest is higher.
Can the US find a 'star' to attract more Americans? Dunno if they can and if so, will she be enough to get the casual fans back?
Joe
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- Jul 26, 2003
Goodwin is a fan who clearly hates CoP and articulated why to Tommy Hine. However, if CoP is so awful and such a nail in the coffin to the sport, it doesn't seem to be affecting its immense popularity in Japan and Russia, to name two of the countries cited. I guess they better understand the concept of "do things, get points, the one with the most points wins." Plus, their commentators haven't had as much emotional attachment to 6.0 and manage to articulate the system clearly.
Amazing how gymnastics has kept its popularity with constant changes to its Scale of Values and the new judging system. Perhaps because the US is fielding strong teams and is competitive at the World Championships and Olympics?
Naumov's point is that US fans will watch skating when there is a US star who catches their attention. It remains to be proven whether Cohen in Stars on Ice has caught the attention of the US public enough to headline the show. I suspect so, and she wouldn't be the first US skater without a World or Olympic championship to draw in crowds. Janet Lynn did this before Kerrigan/Harding boosted the ratings.
Perhaps in eligibile skating it will be Nagasu or Zhang. Perhaps it will be a Nagasu/Zhang rivalvry, since many US fans focus on Ladies. I don't think the odds are great for Lysacek and Weir to end up on the same podium in a major championship; the competition is too great. I do think the public's interest in Belbin/Agosto levelled off after the Olympics, without the incessant citizenship story, and because they haven't won the World title that seemed like their birthright after Torino.
Amazing how gymnastics has kept its popularity with constant changes to its Scale of Values and the new judging system. Perhaps because the US is fielding strong teams and is competitive at the World Championships and Olympics?
Naumov's point is that US fans will watch skating when there is a US star who catches their attention. It remains to be proven whether Cohen in Stars on Ice has caught the attention of the US public enough to headline the show. I suspect so, and she wouldn't be the first US skater without a World or Olympic championship to draw in crowds. Janet Lynn did this before Kerrigan/Harding boosted the ratings.
Perhaps in eligibile skating it will be Nagasu or Zhang. Perhaps it will be a Nagasu/Zhang rivalvry, since many US fans focus on Ladies. I don't think the odds are great for Lysacek and Weir to end up on the same podium in a major championship; the competition is too great. I do think the public's interest in Belbin/Agosto levelled off after the Olympics, without the incessant citizenship story, and because they haven't won the World title that seemed like their birthright after Torino.
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Ahem, aren't Belbin/Agosto, Lysacek and Weir stars of whom you must be proud of??
I mean, FS isn't just Ladies skating or worse American Ladies skating.
I think Weir and Lysacek are very underrated. Belbin/Agosto is a dance pair that could win a lot of medals. It is not fair to not considerate them as stars.
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You think gymnastics has kept its popularity?? It is hardly ever on TV. Heck, the last two Worlds (not counting this past one) weren't even broadcast. For this past Worlds, I had people asking me what was up with the judging. I heard the same complaints about the new judging system (from the few people who actually watched it) as I do about COP.
This is my first post here, so I'll try not to go on too long and hopefully won't alienate anyone right out of the box. lol I think the idea that only a "she" will get the casual fans back is a bit off-base. That's the conventional wisdom, I know, but I don't think it's completely based on the facts. Skatings popularity in the US is based on having American stars, and I doubt it's different in any other country. But becoming a "star", a household name, is a tricky business. It requires top-notch credentials (World Championships, OGM's), exceptional skating abilities, and longevity. A "perfect storm", if you will. When there are skaters like that out there, ratings go up and skating is on TV. The "whack" put more skating on TV, but the "stars" were already in place. There was already more skating televised due to the success of North American skaters in Calgary. I actually think having two male OGM's back to back was part of what changed the sport a bit here in the late 1980's - 2002. Those 2 men were huge players in the sport. Stars on Ice was highly successful and it was mostly associated with Hamilton and Browning. When they left (along with Yamaguchi), the tour suffered. And while CoI had more of a revolving cast, that tour was associated with Boitano, and his leaving had to have hurt. I don't discount the importance of Fleming and Hamill to American skating, but the men don't earn OGM's and get rich doing endorsements; they have to skate to remain famous. That's actually a good thing. In many ways Yamaguchi was much more like Scott and Brian. There was much talk in 1992 that she wasn't getting the same treatment Peggy and Dorothy got, but she kept skating at a high level and became an icon for the work she did. In the last 15 years there haven't been any American men with the right credentials to become bona fide stars, and the three women who had the right resumes, Kwan, Lipinski, and Hughes, left the sport completely at a fairly young age. I'm not criticizing these women at all, because they have their own reasons, some of them physical, for moving on. It's just that it left the sport void of the "stars" who are needed to replace that older generation as they near the end of their careers. Skating in America cannot survive on eligible competition alone.
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- Jun 21, 2003
Thanks for joining us, Dogwood. Post often, post long! :agree:
That is an interesting point about Scott Hamilton and Brian Boitano. I would agree thay they are just as well known as household names like Peggy Fleming and Dorothy Hamill. Maybe Belbin and Agosto will be the new stars who will rejunvinate the sport in the U.S., rather than the next female wunderkind.
It seems funny to see Michelle Kwan listed among those ladies who left the sport too soon. After all, she won her first Senior World Championship at 15 and was on the world podium for 9 straight years!
But I know what you mean. Since Michelle did not go on to a pro career, her impact was limited to the competitove side of the sport.
That is an interesting point about Scott Hamilton and Brian Boitano. I would agree thay they are just as well known as household names like Peggy Fleming and Dorothy Hamill. Maybe Belbin and Agosto will be the new stars who will rejunvinate the sport in the U.S., rather than the next female wunderkind.
It seems funny to see Michelle Kwan listed among those ladies who left the sport too soon. After all, she won her first Senior World Championship at 15 and was on the world podium for 9 straight years!
But I know what you mean. Since Michelle did not go on to a pro career, her impact was limited to the competitove side of the sport.
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- Jul 11, 2003
I disagree. the last time I saw interest in male figure skating was a hyped up rivalry between Orso and Boitano. and that was during the pre Olys. Debbie and Katrina got much more hype and drew incredible number of fans inWorlds as well as Olys. Oh yes, Button got a lot of newsreel hype but only after he won Nats, Worlds, Olys and ta da Euros. That was so long ago.
Except for Sonia Henie. I believe it was America that made her a star.and there has not been a star like her since. That was so long ago.
With regard to Fleming, I believe it was the plane crash and the ensuing Olympic gold medal that ushered her into stardom with countless TV specials (and Joe Namath, remember him? I think they are making a movie of his life. Wonder if there will be mention of Peggy)
Dorothy had that hair style which became a fashion note all round America.
Now who were the Males' goldmedalists in those years?
Indeed the whack put back more skating on TV. More faux competitions with outlandish outfits. yeah. Who took them seriously? except for giggly fans?
I really think the USFS just has to bide its time with bringing figure skating back to a household name. It will happen I think, but it will take time.
Joe
It's a good article. Thank you, Geesesk8
Even though there are multiple contributing causes, I think the number one cause is the lack of "winners". I am afraid that what has been called the "casual audience", as opposed to the much smaller core audience, loses interest when it stops having national winners, i.e. gold medalists, at the international competitions. That would account for the popularity of skating in Russia and Japan. Television sponsor revenue is based on audience shares, so a large audience is needed to keep eligible skating very visible on TV; for this the casual viewer must be attracted. I think that when any country is winning international events, then their public wants to watch. I wish the situation were not that medals-driven, but I think it is.
Even though there are multiple contributing causes, I think the number one cause is the lack of "winners". I am afraid that what has been called the "casual audience", as opposed to the much smaller core audience, loses interest when it stops having national winners, i.e. gold medalists, at the international competitions. That would account for the popularity of skating in Russia and Japan. Television sponsor revenue is based on audience shares, so a large audience is needed to keep eligible skating very visible on TV; for this the casual viewer must be attracted. I think that when any country is winning international events, then their public wants to watch. I wish the situation were not that medals-driven, but I think it is.
I'm not sure how to respond to this. I think there is a difference between becoming a star and being "hyped" as a star. Lots of skaters get "hyped" and don't pan out. They don't become real stars. Think Bowman and Bobek. The real stars are those who actually achieve something and elevate the sport in some way. The media will always hype the women, I agree. However, during Calgary they decided to hype the men as well. As far as the pre-Olympic hype, I think it was about even, but since the men skated earlier, they only got a week of hype during the Games, while the women's frenzy went on for two weeks since they skated last. The difference between those two events was that the men's event surpassed the hype in terms of the quality of skating and women's event fell a bit flat. Liz Manley and Midori Ito finished 1st and 2nd in the free skate. It didn't matter for Witt because she still won and was already a star, but after the 1988 Worlds when the result was the same, that was the end of the hype for Debi Thomas. It was just the beginning for Boitano, however.
Well, I think an Olympic Gold medal also ushered Hamilton and Boitano into stardom with countless appearances on TV. That's how it works.
The male gold medalists in 1968 and 1972 were forgetable for sure. But John Curry was a star who I saw often in the 1970's and 1980's, and Robin Cousins was certainly a bigger star than Anett Poetsch or Linda Fratianne.
If you look at the kinds or TV ratings many skating events in the 1990's received, it's hard to imagine only "giggly" fans were watching. I watched and enjoyed many of those events, and I am definitely not a "giggly" fan. I chose the professional events I watched based on who was skating. Obviously you have no respect for professional skaters and don't consider them true stars, and I respect your position. But I have to say that I never saw professional skaters like, Cousins, Boitano, Yamaguchi, Browning, Sato, Wylie and many others ever dress in outlandish outfits or skate in a way that was disrespectful to the sport or their audience. Some of those skaters kept up their technical ablilities longer than I thought was possible. And the most outlandish skating outfits I've seen in awhile were trotted out at the last Olympics. The skating wasn't very good either. The costumes in Ice Dance alone over the last 10 years often take "outlandish" to new heights. I don't think eligible skating necessarily has a corner on the market of good taste in skating.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on these issues, and I realize I'm probably in the minority here.
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- Jul 26, 2003
dogwood, I agree with you about Boitano and Hamilton. Hamilton started a tour against all conventional wisdom that a man would never be able to sell, especially a man who refused to appear as a cartoon character or in a fruit or vegetable suit, and that tour is the major tour in the US that survives today. Boitano also started a tour and starred in TV shows. Hamilton and Boitano won professional title after title during the heyday years.
Debbie Thomas did perform professionally for a few years while she was in medical school, but it wasn't her primary career, like it was for Hamilton and Boitano. Sumners was not from the triples era, and unlike Hammill, did not have the skating skills, technique, or charisma (or gold medal) that a Hamilton had to make people wish that she cold win the pro championships, even though her jumps were less than the newer competition.
Sadly, I think Dick Button bring about the death of professional skating by creating what was, in essence, another professional show, when instead of allowing skaters to qualify, or at least open up several qualification spots -- even Wimbledon does this -- his pro championships were by invitation only. Perhaps not a judging scandal, but a fixed competition nonetheless, and one in which the same competitors used the same programs in multiple televised events. He had the opportunity to create new stars and rivalries, but instead, his chosen few milked it until the cow was dry.
Debbie Thomas did perform professionally for a few years while she was in medical school, but it wasn't her primary career, like it was for Hamilton and Boitano. Sumners was not from the triples era, and unlike Hammill, did not have the skating skills, technique, or charisma (or gold medal) that a Hamilton had to make people wish that she cold win the pro championships, even though her jumps were less than the newer competition.
Sadly, I think Dick Button bring about the death of professional skating by creating what was, in essence, another professional show, when instead of allowing skaters to qualify, or at least open up several qualification spots -- even Wimbledon does this -- his pro championships were by invitation only. Perhaps not a judging scandal, but a fixed competition nonetheless, and one in which the same competitors used the same programs in multiple televised events. He had the opportunity to create new stars and rivalries, but instead, his chosen few milked it until the cow was dry.
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Imo
Professional skating's demise is symptomatic and a direct result of what has happened with competitive skating. Speedy has totally ruined the sport. The new judging system is a disaster. The two Olympic gold medals in pairs also contributed to the decline in viewership. What a joke that was. People consider it a non-sport that has had it's judging screwed around with to the point the general public can't follow it. Michelle Kwan leaving the field also caused a major drop in viewership in this country. She was a phenomena that comes once every 25 years or more. No mere OGMedalist is going to have the same impact. Her personality and character carried the sport for many years. It will take another woman ( a man won't do it-sorry) with similar qualities to re-ignite this sport in America.
Frankly, I think all the professional shows added to its decline. It was seen as fluff and entertainment. I don't think figure skating is as strong in Europe as it once was either. Japan is about the only place where it is thriving.
Professional skating's demise is symptomatic and a direct result of what has happened with competitive skating. Speedy has totally ruined the sport. The new judging system is a disaster. The two Olympic gold medals in pairs also contributed to the decline in viewership. What a joke that was. People consider it a non-sport that has had it's judging screwed around with to the point the general public can't follow it. Michelle Kwan leaving the field also caused a major drop in viewership in this country. She was a phenomena that comes once every 25 years or more. No mere OGMedalist is going to have the same impact. Her personality and character carried the sport for many years. It will take another woman ( a man won't do it-sorry) with similar qualities to re-ignite this sport in America.
Frankly, I think all the professional shows added to its decline. It was seen as fluff and entertainment. I don't think figure skating is as strong in Europe as it once was either. Japan is about the only place where it is thriving.
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- Jul 26, 2003
Reports from FSU are that skating is having a great comeback in Europe and especially in Russia.
I disagree that professional shows add to the decline of skating. They provide continuity. The only reason I'm going to see Stars on Ice this year is because Ilia Kulik is skating; he made the difference.
I think professional competitions added to the decline of skating, and the lack of difference between made-for-TV fluff competitions, like Ice Wars, and true competition, which never really happened
How many complaints have been posted on this board that CoP makes skating ugly, and where are the simple programs of the past? The same complaints happened under 6.0, when the "jumping beans" would enter pro competitions, and these skaters would look unpolished compared to the skaters who continued to grow as professionals.
Had professional skating competitions not died, there would be a place for polished, refined skating, and the Angela Nikodinovs, for example, of the world would have had a place to refine their skills even further.
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Exactly! The Boitano/Witt tour was bought out by IMG when Brian and Katarina reinstated and Stars on Ice took over the dates, kept Bezic and Seibert and the concept, and really took off. I don't know about Scott refusing to appear as a "cartoon character or in a fruit or vegetable suit" since he did skate with the Ice Capades for two years. lol But Boitano made it clear immediately he wasn't interested in the Ice Capades. He also made it clear by how he skated that he wasn't interested in replacing the 3 axel with a backflip either.
I know that Debi performed for several years. I just don't think her actually skating ablility was at the same level as the pre-Olympic hype she received. She always intended to become a doctor and it's great to see her become sucessful at her true calling. She's a great gal.
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I never spent too much time worrying about who won professional competitions. But maybe you are right that Button had to opportunity to "create new stars and rivalries"; I don't know, I watched the Button pro competition to see great skaters who I liked as amateurs. People who had great edge control. When the event began, I tuned in to watch the Protopopov's, Janet Lynn, John Curry, Cranston, etc. In it's heyday I was glad to see Gordeeva/Grinkov, Hamilton, Boitano, Browning etc. The only amateurs who never interested me, but who I loved as pros were Underhill/Martini. Post 1998 I lost interest because the people who skated there like Candeloro and Galindo were not skaters that I was interested in when they were eligible, and I didn't see anything in their pro skating that changed my mind. But perhaps I am the exception here rather than the rule.
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