Highest Level Jump from an Adult
- Thread starter bondgirl
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2004
This is another reason why I like to compete ISI. For each level, you have a required footwork element (that is the same for everyone). So in a sense, you have your moves built-in to your freestyle skate.
But the same thing goes-you see the skaters placing high because their footwork is smooth, edges are deep, artistry is there as well-it isn't all about the jumps. I've seen people bumped out because their footwork wasn't up to par (my daughter was one of them, tho her jumps were A-1).
I am 46 and learned to skate as an adult (only skated about 15-20 times as a teen). Before I got sidetracked with my injury, I was on my way to a double-salchow (1 1/2-1 3/4 rotations.....
). So we spent this past season on ... footwork!!! yeah, 3-turns, edges, etc. get the picture?
I don't recall how old Larry Holliday is...but I googled his name and he is 44 (now). Here is the article:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb5273/is_200704/ai_n20732696
He also has a book out (came up in the google listing).
But the same thing goes-you see the skaters placing high because their footwork is smooth, edges are deep, artistry is there as well-it isn't all about the jumps. I've seen people bumped out because their footwork wasn't up to par (my daughter was one of them, tho her jumps were A-1).
I am 46 and learned to skate as an adult (only skated about 15-20 times as a teen). Before I got sidetracked with my injury, I was on my way to a double-salchow (1 1/2-1 3/4 rotations.....
). So we spent this past season on ... footwork!!! yeah, 3-turns, edges, etc. get the picture? I don't recall how old Larry Holliday is...but I googled his name and he is 44 (now). Here is the article:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb5273/is_200704/ai_n20732696
He also has a book out (came up in the google listing).
Yep, have heard ISI lets you do footwork in program. Probably where I'd go if I ever decided to test. Not worried about it since I'm not planning to compete. (Coaching kind of husband's dream, not mine.) Probably a good idea to stay away from the "official" figure skating world anyway.....Don't like the rules, don't play the game....So I won't. 
Larry is 44? Wonder if he still jumps triples.....
My old roller coach could do doubles well into her 50s (including lutz)!!
Well...for those of you who want to compete or maybe coach,(and I guess that's a lot of you). Or for people who have had injuries or don't like jumping...MITF, dance, school figures etc are just fine. Kock yourselves out!! :thumbsup:
But I do disagree that higher level jumps (2axel and above) cannot be learned/done without senior level MITF. Sorry, that's just not true. You need to be able to handle the set up....but you don't need hours upon hours of moves to do those jumps. (Unless you want to put them in a routine and have it all judged, then, well, yeah.....If you want to play the game, you have to play by the rules, so to speak.) But just the jumps.....um, no.
Larry is 44? Wonder if he still jumps triples.....
My old roller coach could do doubles well into her 50s (including lutz)!!
Well...for those of you who want to compete or maybe coach,(and I guess that's a lot of you). Or for people who have had injuries or don't like jumping...MITF, dance, school figures etc are just fine. Kock yourselves out!! :thumbsup:
But I do disagree that higher level jumps (2axel and above) cannot be learned/done without senior level MITF. Sorry, that's just not true. You need to be able to handle the set up....but you don't need hours upon hours of moves to do those jumps. (Unless you want to put them in a routine and have it all judged, then, well, yeah.....If you want to play the game, you have to play by the rules, so to speak.) But just the jumps.....um, no.
Of course you are right. At that level, (triples) I just assumed that it would be an adult with a "history" (either on ice, roller, or, maybe, as a gymnast). Triples out of someone who started after age 25 without any "history" would be incredibleI'm not saying it couldn't be done, but, well .....WOW!!!
No, it would have to be someone with a "history" who was in very good physical shape, (low bodyweight, no/few injuries, good leg strength), with adequate skating skills to support the jump.....Don't think it's necessarily an "age" thing, because I've seen Browning land triples and Boitano land a "Boitano" 3Lutz at 46! So....it can be done (by the elite who stay in shape, anyway). Saw another (unnamed) Olympic champ, (Boitano's age) and he only could manage a 3Toe, (listen to me, "only"). But he had put on some weight.
Well, if you're talking about Browning and Boitano...how many Brownings and Boitanos are there? Then you look at how many adult skaters currently competiting in local competitions who were serious competitive skaters all their lives who won a world championship(s) or medaled at the Olympics? Probably none or close to none. That's probably why most adults don't do 3lutz at the age of 46 or at any age, though as you suggest, anything is possible!
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2008
Natalie Shaby and Liz Floriani both skated competitively growing up, and I believe Natalie won the Gold or Silver at Novice level in the Canadian national championships. I have yet to hear of anyone who started skating as an adult landing a clean triple jump, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. I know a man who started skating as an adult who can land a clean double axel on the floor and on the harness and I have no doubt that he will land a clean one on the ice at some point (he has a few of his doubles on the ice already and they are gorgeous).
I was just looking at the age thing separately from the skill thing. People make it sound like if you're in your 30s (or older) you're body just can't take the stress of landing/falling out of a triple...but, of course they have 10 year olds working on them and people don't seem too worried about the stress on their bodies. (I know they passed the age limit for Worlds, but even Dick and Peggy admitted that's not going to stop anyone from teaching the gifted youngsters. Just look at the Ladies' National Champions.)
Trying to analyze the jump thing logically.....
Physically: Adults are usually stronger than children. (So you would think we would have an advantage there)...however....most adults are also heavier, (even proportionally speaking), so their strength is not enough to overcome the added weight. The children who do go on to triples are usually extremely thin/almost anorexic. The girls who are good jumpers usually have "child's bodies" and keep them if they want to keep the jumps up. (e.g. Caroline Kostner) Just look at what happened to poor Kimmie and Emily and they certainly aren't "fat."
Mentally: Kids aren't as scared of brain trama/death/ loss of work etc. as adults so they aren't as afraid of falling
Practice Time: Adults have to work and generally have less free time to spend on the ice. (Gifted/elite youngsters usually spend 20+ hours training a week.)
Skill: Like I said, this is a whole separate issue. Some people could be thin as a supermodel and have 80 hours of ice time per week and will never land a single axel. It's just hard for me to believe not one adult out there has the natural skill that some of the gifted youngsters have. Now, if that adult were in good physical shape and had practice time.....:think:
Just read valurend's post. Yup, someone like him perhaps....
Trying to analyze the jump thing logically.....
Physically: Adults are usually stronger than children. (So you would think we would have an advantage there)...however....most adults are also heavier, (even proportionally speaking), so their strength is not enough to overcome the added weight. The children who do go on to triples are usually extremely thin/almost anorexic. The girls who are good jumpers usually have "child's bodies" and keep them if they want to keep the jumps up. (e.g. Caroline Kostner) Just look at what happened to poor Kimmie and Emily and they certainly aren't "fat."
Mentally: Kids aren't as scared of brain trama/death/ loss of work etc. as adults so they aren't as afraid of falling
Practice Time: Adults have to work and generally have less free time to spend on the ice. (Gifted/elite youngsters usually spend 20+ hours training a week.)
Skill: Like I said, this is a whole separate issue. Some people could be thin as a supermodel and have 80 hours of ice time per week and will never land a single axel. It's just hard for me to believe not one adult out there has the natural skill that some of the gifted youngsters have. Now, if that adult were in good physical shape and had practice time.....:think:
Just read valurend's post. Yup, someone like him perhaps....
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- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
Larry Holliday was a Senior Men's competitor in his late teens/early 20s and typically finished around 10th or so.
Eric Shroyer was 5th at Sectionals the year that Todd Eldredge was made to qualify through Sectionals when he had taken a season or two off.
DeeDee Reeves has skated almost straight through (with time off to have her 4 girls) and made it to Sectionals as a Senior lady with a couple triples in her 20s.
Elizabeth Cooke (last year's Masters Champion with 2 2As) was competitive at Easterns in her late teens as a Senior.
Bryan Rabin was a competitive Senior Men's skater.
Charnell Evans landed a beautiful 2A on the warm up at Mids this year (and a whole bunch on the practice we shared on Friday night) and fell out of it in his program. I believe he's one of the rare skaters who took it up at the age of 16 and has continued skating throughout (he's older than 16 now
).I wouldn't say it's a lack of natural gift as I've seen some adults just learn stuff really fast up to and including Axels, it's a lack of single minded focus. Kids who show promise/talent usually are home schooled and spend hours upon hours at the rink. Any of the adults I know who have some natural talent also have a job/family that has to be taken care of as well which impedes their ability to focus solely on skating and spend tons of time at the rink.
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Thanks. I definitely agree. I think you are right about the lack of time thing. Wish I could find the skaters you mentioned on YouTube.
Need to have open thread for people to post higher level jumps (doubles and over) and age so the rest of us have hope. I'll start even though I'm totally embarrassed by the video. It was over a year ago and jumps were just so off. :disapp: Technique is much better now. (Hope to have new montage up in a month or so and will update link.) But here it goes...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TlALbadk4A
Age: 38
History: Started on roller at 9. Skated roller 9-17. Didn't skate at all 18-35 (not even for "fun.") Talked into trying ice at 36. Ice skated past 2 1/2 years.
So many people think it is impossible for adults to land anything past 40. Very sad.:no: And it discourages the other adults from trying. I'm not saying go for 3axel if you can't land a single loop....But I see so many of the higher level adults just doing the same two or three doubles over and over and over and over and.....And some of them have the ability to go after the flip or lutz or even axel. Sad.
I know they are competitng and there is the "complete package" thing. (Also adults are limited to jumps at certain levels). But....if they'd only try. But a lot of them have brought into the "I'm too old and I'm going to get hurt" idea. And that brings up crash pads. Which we all used on roller (due to wood burn) and I can't imagine why you guys on ice don't use them. I'm not talking about the bulky can't jump with them they just get in the way pads...Hey, this is another thread. I'm going to start one because it's important. I'm pretty sure my pads have saved me from many serious injuries....:thumbsup:
Need to have open thread for people to post higher level jumps (doubles and over) and age so the rest of us have hope. I'll start even though I'm totally embarrassed by the video.
It was over a year ago and jumps were just so off. :disapp: Technique is much better now. (Hope to have new montage up in a month or so and will update link.) But here it goes...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TlALbadk4A
Age: 38
History: Started on roller at 9. Skated roller 9-17. Didn't skate at all 18-35 (not even for "fun.") Talked into trying ice at 36. Ice skated past 2 1/2 years.
So many people think it is impossible for adults to land anything past 40. Very sad.:no: And it discourages the other adults from trying. I'm not saying go for 3axel if you can't land a single loop....But I see so many of the higher level adults just doing the same two or three doubles over and over and over and over and.....And some of them have the ability to go after the flip or lutz or even axel. Sad.
I know they are competitng and there is the "complete package" thing. (Also adults are limited to jumps at certain levels). But....if they'd only try. But a lot of them have brought into the "I'm too old and I'm going to get hurt" idea. And that brings up crash pads. Which we all used on roller (due to wood burn) and I can't imagine why you guys on ice don't use them. I'm not talking about the bulky can't jump with them they just get in the way pads...Hey, this is another thread. I'm going to start one because it's important. I'm pretty sure my pads have saved me from many serious injuries....:thumbsup:
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
How do you know for sure the adults are only going after the same few jumps? During competition season, sure, I will be focused on the elements in my program when I am working on things in isolation for a couple reasons:
1) these are the things that are going to bring me the points the next competition and they need to be right, clean, and look good.
2) there is a possibility with my more difficult elements I am working on that I might get injured and then be out the money for entry fees, travel expenses, et al.
Since about 1 week before Sectionals through Adult Nationals, I only work on things that are currently planned in the programs or are lead ins for those elements. If you are looking at other adults right now, sure you'll see them continuously working on the same elements if they're headed to ANs in < 2 weeks. They work on the elements in their program so they are completely polished.
During the summer and fall, I work on jumps beyond what I have in my program and what's allowed at my level because I believe the day's going to come that I want to move up to the next level and will need those to be competitive. I work on trying to achieve that elusive L4 change combo spin, flying sit spin, the double loop, flip, and Lutz and harder combo jumps including doubles as the second jump. Am I successful on these elements? Not always, maybe even not often in some people's books, but I do work on them and I am not an age class 1, not by any stretch of the imagination.
1) these are the things that are going to bring me the points the next competition and they need to be right, clean, and look good.
2) there is a possibility with my more difficult elements I am working on that I might get injured and then be out the money for entry fees, travel expenses, et al.
Since about 1 week before Sectionals through Adult Nationals, I only work on things that are currently planned in the programs or are lead ins for those elements. If you are looking at other adults right now, sure you'll see them continuously working on the same elements if they're headed to ANs in < 2 weeks. They work on the elements in their program so they are completely polished.
During the summer and fall, I work on jumps beyond what I have in my program and what's allowed at my level because I believe the day's going to come that I want to move up to the next level and will need those to be competitive. I work on trying to achieve that elusive L4 change combo spin, flying sit spin, the double loop, flip, and Lutz and harder combo jumps including doubles as the second jump. Am I successful on these elements? Not always, maybe even not often in some people's books, but I do work on them and I am not an age class 1, not by any stretch of the imagination.
That's great!!!! :agree: I'm just going by what I see at my rink. It seems like the kids get ahead because they go after the jumps. I've seen them barely land a 2flip and suddenly they're at 2axel. (And most have to be stopped from trying for a triple.). I just don't see that attitude in the adults I know, but I'll admit that I'm only judging by my own experience and may be very wrong. Hope so!!!
Wish there was a site/board just dedicated to jumping. If I knew more about computers I'd try to set one up but I don't have the knowledge/money.
Wish there was a site/board just dedicated to jumping. If I knew more about computers I'd try to set one up but I don't have the knowledge/money.
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Ditto for me I'm an adult and I work on my harder doubles in the off season, but when it gets near competitions and they are still slightly underrotated or less than 50% success of landing I usually don't put them in the program. I have tried 4 different doubles that have never seen the light of competition for at least 3 years now
Actually the same goes for spins too, I have a few spins I am working on including change of edge, difficult positions and more but if I can't hit 3 rounds in position in practise I also don't bring them to the competition. It is frustrating for me sometimes that I feel I appear to be trying the same things over and over at competitions but at the same time there is alot of background work that just doesnt manage to hit the rotations/rounds that I need
(And the same for footwork/steps I don't have alot of some of the harder steps because I end up tripping/two footing them more often than I get them succesfully.)
Actually the same goes for spins too, I have a few spins I am working on including change of edge, difficult positions and more but if I can't hit 3 rounds in position in practise I also don't bring them to the competition. It is frustrating for me sometimes that I feel I appear to be trying the same things over and over at competitions but at the same time there is alot of background work that just doesnt manage to hit the rotations/rounds that I need
(And the same for footwork/steps I don't have alot of some of the harder steps because I end up tripping/two footing them more often than I get them succesfully.)
Yes, that is the "problem" (well, if you want to call it that), with the competition/complete package thing. Especially as mskater93 pointed out, adults don't have a lot of time on the ice as it is....Many are probably capable of triples, but spend a lot of energy/time on the other stuff in order to compete. To land the high end jumps they would probably have to focus just on that and it would kill any chance of competitng (as they would not have the spins/footwork). Kind of a Catch 22.
Just annoying when someone sees me trying a jump and chimes in with "good for you, at your age." I think they are trying to be nice, (well, some of them are), but it makes me grit my teeth....:sheesh: (I get this even from some coaches!)
Now I have a list of adult skaters capable of these jumps so I can mention them. Thanks for giving me some ammo. :agree:
Just annoying when someone sees me trying a jump and chimes in with "good for you, at your age." I think they are trying to be nice, (well, some of them are), but it makes me grit my teeth....:sheesh: (I get this even from some coaches!)
Now I have a list of adult skaters capable of these jumps so I can mention them. Thanks for giving me some ammo. :agree:
theres a coach at our rink that skated at AN's last year as master senior. I think she is in her early 30's. She came in 2nd last year and has been training like almost every day. Shes got a huge double axel double toe and a triple toe in her program that she nails every time. Better than most of the young skaters at our rink! We asked her if she was going to compete again this year and she said no. I know she was sick for a while so that could be why. I think she did skate as a kid. I think that makes a big difference. Your body must be more capable of responding to the training as an adult when you did it as a kid.
