Go for Jackson Supreme or something else at my level?

[Miss Ice]

I’m an adult skater and have been skating in PAINFUL Edea Ice Flys. Looking to get a new boot that doesn’t make make my feet lose circulation and become completely numb at the toes after 25 minutes of skating. The toe area feels too tight and my feet look red, numb, and veiny at the toes, ankle bone, and even just top of feet, after skating. I suspect that the pro shop I got the skates at fitted me one size too small - they fit me size 260 in “regular” width while my shoe size is US women’s 9 or European 40. I think they should have sized me up to 265 at least. My foot is 9.75 in (24.8cm) long and not narrow.

Anyway, my stats as adult skater:
Weight/height: 65kgs/173cm (140lbs/5’8)
Working on: doubles, getting axel back and consistent, flying spins

Before I got these nightmare-ish vampire Ice Flys, I skated in a really old version of Jackson Elites (from 2009 - DJ2700 series!!). They got great and I was landing axels consistently in them (lost axels now after not skating for a while), was working on doubles.

Anyway, I am looking into the current Jackson Supreme boots or getting the discontinued Jackson Supreme DJ5500s which are still available from third party sites. Anyone have experience with either? Or, maybe I need to just size up with Edeas? It is so strange because when I had them fitted at the VERY reputed pro shop, they fit really nice and I almost didn’t feel any discomfort when I started skating in them (after having them punched out a bit at the ankles). But after about 5-7 sessions they started making my feet feel numb.

Will the Supreme boot be too much for an adult at my level? Again, I thought the stiffness of Ice Flys seemed fine - I am an aggressive jumper - I don’t think boots being too stiff can literally numb your feet after a whole, right? If anything, sounds too small.

I tried on the Synergy boot at the same pro shop and they felt very low support to me, so that’s why I’m thinking I should go for Supreme, but would be good to hear feedback on these before making such a huge investment ($750…). Thanks!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I’m an adult skater and have been skating in PAINFUL Edea Ice Flys. Looking to get a new boot that doesn’t make make my feet lose circulation and become completely numb at the toes after 25 minutes of skating. The toe area feels too tight and my feet look red, numb, and veiny at the toes, ankle bone, and even just top of feet, after skating. I suspect that the pro shop I got the skates at fitted me one size too small - they fit me size 260 in “regular” width while my shoe size is US women’s 9 or European 40. I think they should have sized me up to 265 at least. My foot is 9.75 in (24.8cm) long and not narrow.

Anyway, my stats as adult skater:
Weight/height: 65kgs/173cm (140lbs/5’8)
Working on: doubles, getting axel back and consistent, flying spins

Before I got these nightmare-ish vampire Ice Flys, I skated in a really old version of Jackson Elites (from 2009 - DJ2700 series!!). They got great and I was landing axels consistently in them (lost axels now after not skating for a while), was working on doubles.

Anyway, I am looking into the current Jackson Supreme boots or getting the discontinued Jackson Supreme DJ5500s which are still available from third party sites. Anyone have experience with either? Or, maybe I need to just size up with Edeas? It is so strange because when I had them fitted at the VERY reputed pro shop, they fit really nice and I almost didn’t feel any discomfort when I started skating in them (after having them punched out a bit at the ankles). But after about 5-7 sessions they started making my feet feel numb.

Will the Supreme boot be too much for an adult at my level? Again, I thought the stiffness of Ice Flys seemed fine - I am an aggressive jumper - I don’t think boots being too stiff can literally numb your feet after a whole, right? If anything, sounds too small.

I tried on the Synergy boot at the same pro shop and they felt very low support to me, so that’s why I’m thinking I should go for Supreme, but would be good to hear feedback on these before making such a huge investment ($750…). Thanks!

Hi and welcome! First of all, the shop should have never put you in Edea Ice Flys. It sounds like your foot doesn't even fit them if you were good previously in a Jackson. Second, they are too highly rated in stiffness but edea won't feel as stiff as other brands. And I'm just going to be straight with you here and say no way do you need Jackson Supreme DJ5500's. They're stiffness rating of 85. Unless you are jumping triple triple and quads no matter how powerful a jumper you are, still don't need them. You might be able to get away with either a Synergy Pro (70 stiffness rating), or Supreme 5300 at 70 rating.

You might also want to look into Risport Royal Pro if your feet fit Jackson.

 

[Coach Aimee]

I suspect that the pro shop I got the skates at fitted me one size too small - they fit me size 260 in “regular” width while my shoe size is US women’s 9 or European 40. I think they should have sized me up to 265 at least.

I wear a size 9 in street shoes as well. My Edea Ice Fly and Piano are a 255B. For coaching, I wear an Edea Concerto in 255C, as they are more comfortable for long hours of coaching. They didn't necessarily size you incorrectly, as your street shoe size does not translate to Edea. However, I can go up to 260 - I just prefer a more snug fit! It does sound as if Edeas may not be working for you, though. You could ask for some custom shaping in the toe box and see if that helps while you decide which boot is your next best step.

 

[MCsAngel2]

Edea 260 is about a size 7.5 which would be correct for a street size of 9. I'm more inclined to think that you needed a wider width. However agree that if Jackson worked for you previously that you should stay with that, but Supremes are stiff enough that you will hate life if you get them. Premieres or Synergies would be right for you.

 

[tstop4me]

...

Before I got these nightmare-ish vampire Ice Flys, I skated in a really old version of Jackson Elites (from 2009 - DJ2700 series!!). They got great and I was landing axels consistently in them (lost axels now after not skating for a while), was working on doubles.

Anyway, I am looking into the current Jackson Supreme boots or getting the discontinued Jackson Supreme DJ5500s which are still available from third party sites. Anyone have experience with either? Or, maybe I need to just size up with Edeas? It is so strange because when I had them fitted at the VERY reputed pro shop, they fit really nice and I almost didn’t feel any discomfort when I started skating in them (after having them punched out a bit at the ankles). But after about 5-7 sessions they started making my feet feel numb.

Will the Supreme boot be too much for an adult at my level? Again, I thought the stiffness of Ice Flys seemed fine - I am an aggressive jumper - I don’t think boots being too stiff can literally numb your feet after a whole, right? If anything, sounds too small.

I tried on the Synergy boot at the same pro shop and they felt very low support to me, so that’s why I’m thinking I should go for Supreme, but would be good to hear feedback on these before making such a huge investment ($750…). Thanks!

I looked up the stiffness rating on your Elite DJ2700 (some old stock still listed online); it was a 70. The closest match among current Jackson models would be

the Synergy Pro in a 75: https://jacksonultima.com/products/synergy-pro-6085

or

the Supreme 5300 in a 75: https://jacksonultima.com/products/supreme-5300

The Synergy Pro is crafted from synthetic materials. The Supreme 5300 has a more traditional construction with leather uppers, but with a LCF (leather carbon fiber) sole and heel. Your old Elite DJ2700 had leather uppers with a leather sole and heel. Note that the Supreme 5300 was originally introduced several years ago as the Elite 5300, then rebranded as the Supreme 5300 just to confuse everyone. So it really is a descendant of previous Elite models, rather than previous Elite Supreme/Supreme models.

Note an important change, however. Your old Elite DJ2700 had a tongue with a leather base lined with sponge foam rubber. The Supreme 5300 has the new Supreme 6K tongue, a leather base lined with felt. It is much stiffer and less conforming than the old tongue, requiring considerably more break in time. The Synergy Pro is also listed with the Supreme 6K tongue, but I don't know whether the base is leather or synthetic.

 

[Miss Ice]

Thanks for the input everyone!

@Ic3Rabbit and @MCsAngel2 , the Jacksons I had before I got the Ice Flys were rated 70 stiffness and I felt like they provided just enough stiffness for me - not too stiff but also enough support for the most part. I tried on the Synergy at pretty much my size at the pro shop and they felt like not enough support. Even though it was my size or possibly 0.5 of a size up, they felt uncomfortable/loose at the ankle and I felt no support at the top tongue area/bend. I asked for something stiffer and the pro shop said it would be Supreme 5300 in that case, or the leather version of them. Also, I know plenty of adult skaters doing doubles in Icy Flys or equivalent stiffness boot and loving it so I’m not sure I would 100% discount something of that stiffness just because it’s rated for triples on paper. I tried Edda Chorus at the pro shop for instance and felt like they were too little support just walking around hence the upgrade to Ice Flys. I am all for getting my money’s worth but I’m not going to get a lesser stiffness boot in which I feel too loose/lack of support. Jacksons Premiers are rated 65 which is less support than my old Jacksons, and I’m a more aggressive jumper than when I started with those Jacksons, so I wouldn’t go for those.

Given that, I’m looking for a 75-80 stiffness boot at the least, which seems the most like Jackson 5300. I’ve never tried Risport but I’ll look into Risport Royal pro (lower rating than my original Jackson’s though - 65). It looks like they are similar to Edea Chorus according to some people online, so I may look into Risport Premiers as well if my shop carries them. I wish there was something in the middle between Royal Pro and Premiers!

@Coach Aimee I see, I asked my pro shop to do something about the toe but they said they can’t really do much about it unfortunately.

Thanks again for all the advice!

 

[Miss Ice]

I looked up the stiffness rating on your Elite DJ2700 (some old stock still listed online); it was a 70. The closest match among current Jackson models would be

the Synergy Pro in a 75: https://jacksonultima.com/products/synergy-pro-6085

or

the Supreme 5300 in a 75: https://jacksonultima.com/products/supreme-5300

The Synergy Pro is crafted from synthetic materials. The Supreme 5300 has a more traditional construction with leather uppers, but with a LCF (leather carbon fiber) sole and heel. Your old Elite DJ2700 had leather uppers with a leather sole and heel. Note that the Supreme 5300 was originally introduced several years ago as the Elite 5300, then rebranded as the Supreme 5300 just to confuse everyone. So it really is a descendant of previous Elite models, rather than previous Elite Supreme/Supreme models.

Note an important change, however. Your old Elite DJ2700 had a tongue with a leather base lined with sponge foam rubber. The Supreme 5300 has the new Supreme 6K tongue, a leather base lined with felt. It is much stiffer and less conforming than the old tongue, requiring considerably more break in time. The Synergy Pro is also listed with the Supreme 6K tongue, but I don't know whether the base is leather or synthetic.

Wow amazing thanks so much for this thorough comparison. 10/10 content , super helpful to compare to the old Jacksons I had. My foot wasn’t a fan of Synergy boots (haven’t tried the Pro version) so I may need to request to try 5300 from my pro shop. Or the Pro version of Synergy if they got them, but I’m not sure since at any rate the Synergy boot I tried was not a great fit. I also kinda hated the plastic-feeling outer layer of the boot (but that’s more aesthetics, so not as important, but still a consideration).

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Thanks for the input everyone!

@Ic3Rabbit and @MCsAngel2 , the Jacksons I had before I got the Ice Flys were rated 70 stiffness and I felt like they provided just enough stiffness for me - not too stiff but also enough support for the most part. I tried on the Synergy at pretty much my size at the pro shop and they felt like not enough support. Even though it was my size or possibly 0.5 of a size up, they felt uncomfortable/loose at the ankle and I felt no support at the top tongue area/bend. I asked for something stiffer and the pro shop said it would be Supreme 5300 in that case, or the leather version of them. Also, I know plenty of adult skaters doing doubles in Icy Flys or equivalent stiffness boot and loving it so I’m not sure I would 100% discount something of that stiffness just because it’s rated for triples on paper. I tried Edda Chorus at the pro shop for instance and felt like they were too little support just walking around hence the upgrade to Ice Flys. I am all for getting my money’s worth but I’m not going to get a lesser stiffness boot in which I feel too loose/lack of support. Jacksons Premiers are rated 65 which is less support than my old Jacksons, and I’m a more aggressive jumper than when I started with those Jacksons, so I wouldn’t go for those.

Given that, I’m looking for a 75-80 stiffness boot at the least, which seems the most like Jackson 5300. I’ve never tried Risport but I’ll look into Risport Royal pro (lower rating than my original Jackson’s though - 65). It looks like they are similar to Edea Chorus according to some people online, so I may look into Risport Premiers as well if my shop carries them. I wish there was something in the middle between Royal Pro and Premiers!

@Coach Aimee I see, I asked my pro shop to do something about the toe but they said they can’t really do much about it unfortunately.

Thanks again for all the advice!

Yes, but what was the stiffness of the synergy they put you in, there are several stiffness ratings for that boot b/c it's rapid custom. You may have been in the 60 stiffness at the shop. With my extensive experience in the sport, I do not feel that you need something like top of the line Risport and Jackson, and I know b/c I've worn both (and that's with triple triples when I competed). I have worn the Risport Prime for years.
Risport goes from 65 to 90 in their boots now. There's really not much in b/t. And Jackson is on their way to that too it seems. I am well aware that there are those that are doing doubles in the boots you named, but it doesn't mean that's how it should be. There are way too many "fitters" who overboot from the start, it really risks injury and then everything that is proper stiffness for someone at their current stage then feels "not stiff enough." Go ahead and try on a Royal Pro and an RF1Elite ( just know it's 90 rating and I seriously don't recommend it).

I sincerely wish you luck.

 

[tstop4me]

Given that, I’m looking for a 75-80 stiffness boot at the least, which seems the most like Jackson 5300. I’ve never tried Risport but I’ll look into Risport Royal pro (lower rating than my original Jackson’s though - 65). It looks like they are similar to Edea Chorus according to some people online, so I may look into Risport Premiers as well if my shop carries them. I wish there was something in the middle between Royal Pro and Premiers!

Remember, there is no industry standard for boot stiffness ratings (as far as I know, there isn't even an industry definition for boot stiffness). Each manufacturer cooks up its own scheme. So you can't compare stiffness ratings across different boot manufacturers. Good luck in hunting for new boots! I really wish the process were easier.

 

[Miss Ice]

Very interesting update which may or may not help others looking into getting Edeas:

Turns out that my proper size is 255D and not 260C as I was originally fitted. I tried on 260D and had a HUGE space between my foot (heel does not lock) and the sole in the boot even at the tightest lacing of the middle (Ice Fly). I tried on 255C Ice Fly and heel did not lock either, but was able to lock my heel in the 255D Chorus and felt no weird “shifting” of my foot inside that I felt with Ice Fly. Something about Ice Fly doesn’t work for my foot (wider foot, narrow heel). So, Chorus felt good in terms of heel locking and toe box (which was annoying with Ice Fly) but the fitter said that I would break down the Chorus in 6 months.

So I’m going to try on Risport Royal Pro (fitter said they’re the most similar to Chorus in terms of stiffness), Royal Prime (which fitter said is best for me and most comfortable of the lot due to the larger tongue, I think? he said RF series is really uncomfortable according to almost all of the people he fitted), potentially Concerto in the size that actually fits me (fitter said I should try this so it lasts longer than the Chorus for me). I think if neither of those other 3 work I’d go with Chorus because I actually liked the fit but I have lots of hope for the Risports!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Very interesting update which may or may not help others looking into getting Edeas:

Turns out that my proper size is 255D and not 260C as I was originally fitted. I tried on 260D and had a HUGE space between my foot (heel does not lock) and the sole in the boot even at the tightest lacing of the middle (Ice Fly). I tried on 255C Ice Fly and heel did not lock either, but was able to lock my heel in the 255D Chorus and felt no weird “shifting” of my foot inside that I felt with Ice Fly. Something about Ice Fly doesn’t work for my foot (wider foot, narrow heel). So, Chorus felt good in terms of heel locking and toe box (which was annoying with Ice Fly) but the fitter said that I would break down the Chorus in 6 months.

So I’m going to try on Risport Royal Pro (fitter said they’re the most similar to Chorus in terms of stiffness), Royal Prime (which fitter said is best for me and most comfortable of the lot due to the larger tongue, I think? he said RF series is really uncomfortable according to almost all of the people he fitted), potentially Concerto in the size that actually fits me (fitter said I should try this so it lasts longer than the Chorus for me). I think if neither of those other 3 work I’d go with Chorus because I actually liked the fit but I have lots of hope for the Risports!

Did the fitter even mention Edea Concerto to you? That is the boot b/t Chorus and Ice Fly and it may work for you, if you're going to be able to break the Chorus down in 6mos then Concerto should do the trick. The Risport Royal Prime is going to be way too stiff and Risport and Edea stiffness levels are in no way comparable. And honestly I would be scared to see you do the Royal Pro, b/c it's going to be too soft.

Also, a question to see if I can help even further. Do you have a Very High, High, Moderate, low, or non-existent arches?

 

[Miss Ice]

Did the fitter even mention Edea Concerto to you? That is the boot b/t Chorus and Ice Fly and it may work for you, if you're going to be able to break the Chorus down in 6mos then Concerto should do the trick. The Risport Royal Prime is going to be way too stiff and Risport and Edea stiffness levels are in no way comparable. And honestly I would be scared to see you do the Royal Pro, b/c it's going to be too soft.

Also, a question to see if I can help even further. Do you have a Very High, High, Moderate, low, or non-existent arches?

Thanks for your reply! Yes the fitter said that Concerto would be a good option if I liked the Chorus but need something a bit stiffer. Hence I asked to order the Concerto in my size to try it on.

Yes I am actually not sure if it is Royal Pro or RF1 that another shop has in my size which I was referred to. So I will try one of those just to see the Risport fit, I’ve never tried Risport at all before. I can’t believe Risports don’t have anything in between Royal Pro and Royal Primes in their Royal line.

As a Risport expert, what would you say is the difference in the Royal vs RF lines in terms of the best suited type of foot/skater? From what I understand one is fully synthetic and one is a leather boot, but I’m not sure about the difference in the inner padding. Also a difference in the tongue, higher in RF. I am referring to this guideline https://issuu.com/klsport/docs/catalogo_tecnico_a4_risport_ice-rol/ when I see that Royal seems to be more like Edea in the sense that the ankles are more “free” which I actually like (I have large ankle bones - but thin heel - and strong ankles, so really snug ankle area like in RF would likely be very uncomfortable and would need to be punched out/heat molded).

Also, I thought the Royal Pros are rated for doubles/triples?

I have “normal”, moderate arches. Let me know if that helps at all!

 

[tstop4me]

Very interesting update which may or may not help others looking into getting Edeas:

Turns out that my proper size is 255D and not 260C as I was originally fitted. I tried on 260D and had a HUGE space between my foot (heel does not lock) and the sole in the boot even at the tightest lacing of the middle (Ice Fly). I tried on 255C Ice Fly and heel did not lock either, but was able to lock my heel in the 255D Chorus and felt no weird “shifting” of my foot inside that I felt with Ice Fly. Something about Ice Fly doesn’t work for my foot (wider foot, narrow heel). So, Chorus felt good in terms of heel locking and toe box (which was annoying with Ice Fly) but the fitter said that I would break down the Chorus in 6 months.

So I’m going to try on Risport Royal Pro (fitter said they’re the most similar to Chorus in terms of stiffness), Royal Prime (which fitter said is best for me and most comfortable of the lot due to the larger tongue, I think? he said RF series is really uncomfortable according to almost all of the people he fitted), potentially Concerto in the size that actually fits me (fitter said I should try this so it lasts longer than the Chorus for me). I think if neither of those other 3 work I’d go with Chorus because I actually liked the fit but I have lots of hope for the Risports!

Did you try the Jackson Supreme 5300?

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Thanks for your reply! Yes the fitter said that Concerto would be a good option if I liked the Chorus but need something a bit stiffer. Hence I asked to order the Concerto in my size to try it on.

Yes I am actually not sure if it is Royal Pro or RF1 that another shop has in my size which I was referred to. So I will try one of those just to see the Risport fit, I’ve never tried Risport at all before. I can’t believe Risports don’t have anything in between Royal Pro and Royal Primes in their Royal line.

As a Risport expert, what would you say is the difference in the Royal vs RF lines in terms of the best suited type of foot/skater? From what I understand one is fully synthetic and one is a leather boot, but I’m not sure about the difference in the inner padding. Also a difference in the tongue, higher in RF. I am referring to this guideline https://issuu.com/klsport/docs/catalogo_tecnico_a4_risport_ice-rol/ when I see that Royal seems to be more like Edea in the sense that the ankles are more “free” which I actually like (I have large ankle bones - but thin heel - and strong ankles, so really snug ankle area like in RF would likely be very uncomfortable and would need to be punched out/heat molded).

Also, I thought the Royal Pros are rated for doubles/triples?

I have “normal”, moderate arches. Let me know if that helps at all!

I'll do a more in-depth tomorrow when I have time (but to answer a few questions now): Royal Pros are rated 65.

The reason I have asked about arches is to see if another brand you have not considered might work for your feet. With what you have told me, Graf might work.

I'll answer everything more in-depth tomorrow.

 

[Miss Ice]

Did you try the Jackson Supreme 5300?

No I did not as they don’t really stock it anymore. I’ll have to try another pro shop.

I'll do a more in-depth tomorrow when I have time (but to answer a few questions now): Royal Pros are rated 65.

The reason I have asked about arches is to see if another brand you have not considered might work for your feet. With what you have told me, Graf might work.

I'll answer everything more in-depth tomorrow.

Sounds good, thanks! I’ll look into Graf but might be hard to come by here in the US. I saw they’re good for a wider front foot and narrow heel so that’s fitting.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

What area of the US are you in?

 

[mskater93]

No I did not as they don’t really stock it anymore. I’ll have to try another pro shop.

Sounds good, thanks! I’ll look into Graf but might be hard to come by here in the US. I saw they’re good for a wider front foot and narrow heel so that’s fitting.

If you are near the Chicago area, there's a new Graf rep. PM me

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Also, I thought the Royal Pros are rated for doubles/triples?

I have “normal”, moderate arches. Let me know if that helps at all!

Yes, but if you are an aggressive jumper at 65 stiffness you are going to kill them in no time. I would be concerned they won't be enough support for you from the get-go.

 

[2sk8]

Sounds good, thanks! I’ll look into Graf but might be hard to come by here in the US. I saw they’re good for a wider front foot and narrow heel so that’s fitting.

I regularly work with GRAF in the US - feel free to PM me and I can assist with referral to a fitter, comparable model options & source for GRAF boots.