Davis-White FD score

cassieandcheetah · Mar 24, 2008

Hi everyone,

why did you guys think D/W's FD score at Worlds was so low. It was so much lower than their personal best, my heart ached for them even though in the end they placed higher than Pechelat and Bourzat....It's so unfair because Tessa and Scott got like season's best, whereas Meryl and Charlie went down like 4-5 points. I could tell Meryl wasn't too pleased at all in the Kiss and Cry....Any thoughts?

SamuraiKike · Mar 24, 2008

Well theirs personal best is from 4CC and those scores were majorly inflated. The World score were more accurate for them. As for V/M they benefitted from being in the final group and of course giving the skate of their lives so far

What really hurt Meryl and Charlie IMO was their OD . Antoher same ol Russian Kalinka after the judges saw at least 3 or 4 before and the coreography wasnt outstanding by any means. They moved up a spot deservedly in the FD but it was too little too late Im afraid.

luckyguy · Mar 24, 2008

SamuraiKike said:
.......
What really hurt Meryl and Charlie IMO was their OD . Antoher same ol Russian Kalinka after the judges saw at least 3 or 4 before and the coreography wasnt outstanding by any means. ....

The opinions about their OD are very different. Hendryk Schamberger, a former ice dancer and now a commentator at Eurosport meant, it was the third best OD behind Delobel/Schoenfelder and Kokhlova/Novitski.

all that · Mar 24, 2008

I have to see D&W's FD again to have a guess at what the scores should be, but off the top of my head, I'd say that being the second American team is probably hurting them judging-wise. It will be difficult for them to get into the final group, and even though judges no longer have to "leave room" at the top like they did with the 6.0 system, I think they subconsciously keep the scores of the penultimate group a bit lower than those skaters in the final group.

OTOH, even if V&M weren't the Canadian number ones, that performance deserved a SB score. It was truly was their season's best performance.

Tinymavy15 · Mar 24, 2008

well i may be prejudiced, because I think their freedance was the best of the season, but yeah they were low!! there was not another team up there (except maybe virtue and moir) who had that flow and speed and connection to one another. but V&M did not have Charlie and Meryl's twizzles or difficultly in the lifts.

Marine63 · Mar 25, 2008

Tinymavy15 said:
well i may be prejudiced, because I think their freedance was the best of the season, but yeah they were low!! there was not another team up there (except maybe virtue and moir) who had that flow and speed and connection to one another. but V&M did not have Charlie and Meryl's twizzles or difficultly in the lifts.

I totally agree. V & M put me to sleep. They always pick such safe music to skate to. D & W are the best technicians in ice dancing. I just wished the scores would reflect it.

clairecloutier · Mar 26, 2008

I respect V/M, but I agree the music and concept of their free dance seemed very "safe" and uninspired. In fact, everything about it felt too similar to last season's free dance—even the costumes, which were quite similar, just a different color.

D/W, on the other hand, chose a very challenging piece of music and difficult theme—and skated it superbly. Not only was their technique and difficulty unsurpassed, they also were intense and captivating to watch from an artistic viewpont. I thought their performance was stunning. My husband agreed and also said he found V/M a little boring.

Penny · Mar 26, 2008

I am just bewildered by Davis/White scores. They are technically the best team out there in my opinion and their artistry is very good and improving fast. So what is the deal?

all that · Mar 26, 2008

Has anyone looked at the protocols? One of the reasons D&W's score was low was that they got level 3s on three elements.

cassieandcheetah · Mar 26, 2008

all that said:
Has anyone looked at the protocols? One of the reasons D&W's score was low was that they got level 3s on three elements.

Ouch...that's so terrible...how did that happen? Aren't they the team of "all level fours"?

all that · Mar 26, 2008

cassieandcheetah said:
Ouch...that's so terrible...how did that happen? Aren't they the team of "all level fours"?

No, they're not. They were the first to earn all level 4s for their FD at NHK in 2006-2007. Susie Wynn kept bringing this up all season, as if it somehow had bearing on this year, even though D&W were now skating different programs, suffered an injury over the summer, and competed in different events during the GP circuit, with different judges, etc.

dorispulaski · Mar 26, 2008

I believe they got higher levels at 4C's-there might have been one lift that was level 3, but these levels were lower.

Why? I don't know. You'd have to ask the caller.

~tapdancer · Mar 31, 2008

I was quite perturbed over Meryl and Charlie's scores for the FD. At the risk of being branded as a "conspiracy theorist", I will say that things were going on at some level in regards to placement. And it had to do with all three phases of the competition. I think there were teams that were overmarked in the CD and OD just to make it more difficult to knock them off in the FD. K/N were only 5th in the FD but their CD and OD scores helped them get the bronze. And I think the fact that Dom/Shabs wasn't there was a factor in that. But anyway, I digress...

Meryl and Charlie had a rough start to the season and a 4th place finish at SA, followed by 3rd at TEB probably had something to do with not placing higher at Worlds. I got the feeling that good as they were at Worlds, the judges just aren't ready to place them higher yet. Why they didn't feel the same way about V/M, I'm not sure, unless it was the fact that V/M were Canada's National Champions. I feel that Meryl and Charlie are just as good as V/M, in fact I like them better but that's just a personal choice for me.

Meryl and Charlie's scores at 4CC and US Nationals were both above 100 and they should have gotten closer to that at Worlds. But then again the World champs got 104 so it seems the scoring was relatively speaking on the lower side. I don't know.

I don't understand why the got the 3 level 3's. I just simply didn't see that. I thought they skated with passion and heart and great technical skill.

Oh, well, just wait until next season! I can't wait!!

Buttercup · Mar 31, 2008

I'm afraid my view of them is a bit less positive. The FD was the first time I'd ever seen D/W skate and while they certainly skate with great skill and speed, I got the feeling that they were skating straight through their music without interpreting it at all. If anything, they were overmarked; I would have had them behind Pechalat/Bourzat.

Meryl and Charlie's scores at 4CC and US Nationals were both above 100 and they should have gotten closer to that at Worlds.

4CCs this year had very high scores, and judges are always generous at nationals, so I'm not sure those are good comparisons.

dorispulaski · Mar 31, 2008

At 4C's, D&W got all level 4's in their FD, so their base score was 46.2. At Worlds, although I did not see any differences (other than improvement) to their 4C's performance, they had 3 level 3's, for a base score of 42.8. Right there alone, there is a difference of 3.4 points. Adding that back on to D&W's Worlds score, if they had gotten their usual levels, that would be 96.03 + 3.4 =99.43, quite close to their 4C's score.

~tapdancer · Mar 31, 2008

dorispulaski said:
At 4C's, D&W got all level 4's in their FD, so their base score was 46.2. At Worlds, although I did not see any differences (other than improvement) to their 4C's performance, they had 3 level 3's, for a base score of 42.8. Right there alone, there is a difference of 3.4 points. Adding that back on to D&W's Worlds score, if they had gotten their usual levels, that would be 96.03 + 3.4 =99.43, quite close to their 4C's score.

Very good points...that's what I was trying to say. I don't think the 4CC or National scores were inflated, Euros was the same way. It's always that way...Worlds' scores are generally lower and if you think about it, of course, at Worlds it's the cream of the crop from every country, naturally, the competition is much stiffer. So you can expect lower ranked teams to score lower. But I disagree with D/W getting a lower base score at Worlds, like you said, dorispulaski, if anything their performance was just as great, even improved, from 4CCs and Nationals.

And sorry, Buttercup, much as I enjoyed P/B, I don't think technically they were near as good as D/W and both dances had the same artistic feel, just different, though.

dorispulaski · Mar 31, 2008

There was one thing oddly in common between D&W and P&B-both were portraying mental illness. D&W did a fairly realistic treatment of depression and P&B did an almost cartoonish treatment of unmedicated schizophrenia?perhaps? (I'm guessing here at a disorder...anyway, something that would get you confined to a straight jacket).

all that · Mar 31, 2008

Buttercup said:
I'm afraid my view of them is a bit less positive. The FD was the first time I'd ever seen D/W skate and while they certainly skate with great skill and speed, I got the feeling that they were skating straight through their music without interpreting it at all.

Actually, I get that impression too. I didn't see them picking up the nuances of the music. Part of this may be a result of the way the program was constructed -- originally, there were different cuts of music, and the entire program had a different feel. Then those cuts were replaced, but much of the choreography remained the same. Look at the midline step, for example -- the choreography is almost the same, even though the music went from something very strong sounding to something much softer! How can the movements remain the same if the music is so different?

romanoff81 · Apr 6, 2008

Their ordinary skaters compared to V&M I just don't see them ever being in the same league as them.

cassieandcheetah · Apr 7, 2008

romanoff81 said:
Their ordinary skaters compared to V&M I just don't see them ever being in the same league as them.

I think they'll catch up. I don't think they're ordinary because as relatively young skaters they met success quite quickly. But I do hope they catch up to their peers in terms of musicality and expression.

Davis-White FD score

cassieandcheetah

SamuraiKike

luckyguy

Match Penalty

all that

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win

Marine63

clairecloutier

Penny

all that

cassieandcheetah

all that

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

~tapdancer

Buttercup

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

~tapdancer

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

all that

romanoff81

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cassieandcheetah

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