New Commentary from Sonia: "A Glimpse of Hope?"
- Thread starter gsrossano
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- Nov 19, 2006
I agree about the step sequences, it souldn't be in the Tech Mark. She has some valid points about downgrades & spins.
But I disagree with the limitations of jumps. I wish there was more freedom in FS not more limitations.
I kind of like her view of PCS and TES.
Abolishing secret judging and the "corridor" goes without saying. Not sure about the draw though...FS is a subjective sport.
But I disagree with the limitations of jumps. I wish there was more freedom in FS not more limitations.
I kind of like her view of PCS and TES.
Abolishing secret judging and the "corridor" goes without saying. Not sure about the draw though...FS is a subjective sport.
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- Mar 25, 2008
I thought the column was in part a repeat of things she's written in the past, but there were some good ideas in there. I completely agree with her take on step sequences; they have gotten dull and slow and for the most part, boringly technical. But I wouldn't move them to PCS, which I feel would undermine their value in a program.
I think Ms. Bianchetti's suggestion of not having levels for spins is a good one; it might be better to extend this to step sequences, too. Have a uniform base mark for everyone, and differentiate between skaters entirely based on their execution. This would mean that a skater with a slow or repetitive step sequence would get a negative GOE, while someone doing something intricate, or fast, or innovative, would score a high GOE. But there wouldn't be as many constraints on what a skater would need to accomplish to get a high mark for the steps, which would encourage variety, innovation, and audience appeal - and discourage flailing arms.
I think everyone except the ISU wants to do away with secret judging.
Finally, I'm not sure we were watching the same Europeans. "The quality of the skating, especially in single events, was the lowest I can remember"? I guess this can be said about the ladies event, but there were some excellent performances by the men, the top pairs, and the ice dancers (and there was a lot of variety in the dance programs). Surely she can make her arguments - some of which are quite convincing - without exaggerating?
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- Feb 4, 2008
I totaly agree with Sonia on her analysis of what's wrong, but I'm not all that keen on her solutions.
I wish the ISU would listen to her - I'm tired of seeing skating die a little bit more each season.
I wish the ISU would listen to her - I'm tired of seeing skating die a little bit more each season.
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- Jul 11, 2003
I like her way of thinking. She loves skating and doesn't want to see it decline to being no more than acrobatics.
The rush to bring in the CoP was done without testing it thoroughly, and very little has occured to improve it. Nothing but restrictions. PC scores a maze of points that are meaningless. Whatever happened to beautiful skating?
and rosee let's start a petition to bring back the real Free Skate.
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A glimpse of hope? (Thoughts and Suggestions on improving the IJS)
Sonia Bianchetti offers her thoughts on improving the IJS
A glimpse of hope? by Sonia Bianchetti
Sonia Bianchetti offers her thoughts on improving the IJS
A glimpse of hope? by Sonia Bianchetti
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- Jun 21, 2003
The trouble with the random draw is that on first aquaintance it appears to be stupid and vaguely sinister, while in fact it accomplishes nothing, good or bad. The ISU is risking a public relations hit for nothing.
I agree with Ms. Bianchetti on doing away with "features" and levels in spins, and in allowing skaters to intersperse steps throughout the program.
I also agree about "relative" versus "absolute" judging. However, absolute judging is the very soul of the CoP. I do not see any way to modify, adjust or tweak the judging system to take this problem into account -- the IJS would have to be scrapped altogether.
The title of Ms. Bianchetti's article seems strange to me. There is othing in the article that justifies a "glimpse of hope" that the ISU will be contemplating making any substantial changes in the judging system. Her vague suggestion that there ought to be some sort of magic committee set up that will solve all our problems is far from "hopeful."
This year's Europeans was the worst ever? Maybe so, but I am pretty sure Ms. Biancheitti said the same thing about last year's Europeans.
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- Jul 11, 2003
The Senior Men at Cleveland were 4 top skaters put there by the whims of the draw: Evan Lysacek, Jeremy Abbott, Stephen Carriere, Adam Rippon, all skated in the first group of the SP.
Why didn't the USFS use some other method than drawing?
Why didn't the USFS use some other method than drawing?
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- Jun 21, 2003
In the article, Sonia Bianchetti is speaking about the random draw of which judges' scores to throw out in tabulating the scores.
About the draw for skate order, sometimes strange things happen, like at Cleveland, but at least the draw treats all skaters equally, regardless of their reputations coming into the competition.
About the draw for skate order, sometimes strange things happen, like at Cleveland, but at least the draw treats all skaters equally, regardless of their reputations coming into the competition.
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- Jul 11, 2003
^^^ Thanks for reminding me.
But couldn't the USFS use the Icenetwork rankings?
But couldn't the USFS use the Icenetwork rankings?
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This year's Europeans was the worst ever? Maybe so, but I am pretty sure Ms. Biancheitti said the same thing about last year's Europeans.
Holy Ravioli, Mathman!
Things must really be getting worse then. Obviously, it's a downhill trend
Oh, the ladies' event at Europeans has been dire for decades.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAomRWNT6KM
How did Bonaly manage to win so many titles despite deficient basic skating technique? None of the other ladies at Europeans could land the jumps -- if they did it one program, they bombed the other one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAomRWNT6KM
How did Bonaly manage to win so many titles despite deficient basic skating technique? None of the other ladies at Europeans could land the jumps -- if they did it one program, they bombed the other one.
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- Jun 21, 2003
Actually, although I have a lot of criticism of the CoP and feel a certain amount of distress at how it is playing out, I do not really agree with Mrs. Bianchetti's central thesis. Mrs. B. says:
(a) The CoP has caused a decline in artistry in figure skating, and
(b) That is why the sport is losing popularity.
I think there are good and bad programs in any system of judging, and that the popularity of the sport is determined by market forces and cultural trends that are beyond the power of the ISU to affect.
(a) The CoP has caused a decline in artistry in figure skating, and
(b) That is why the sport is losing popularity.
I think there are good and bad programs in any system of judging, and that the popularity of the sport is determined by market forces and cultural trends that are beyond the power of the ISU to affect.
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- Jul 11, 2003
Has she said the Sport is losing its popularity?
The Sport has lost its popularity in the US. Too much mystery in Salt Lake City which remains unresolved. Also the questionable results of some of the championships due to the CoP. Just not understood by many casual fans despite written explanations, although often written in jargon.
Yet there are still thousands of little girls who want to study figure skating.
I have no idea if the sport is losing popularity in Europe. Maybe in some countries. It doesn't seem to be losing popularity in Russia and Ukraine.
The Sport has lost its popularity in the US. Too much mystery in Salt Lake City which remains unresolved. Also the questionable results of some of the championships due to the CoP. Just not understood by many casual fans despite written explanations, although often written in jargon.
Yet there are still thousands of little girls who want to study figure skating.
I have no idea if the sport is losing popularity in Europe. Maybe in some countries. It doesn't seem to be losing popularity in Russia and Ukraine.
I do not mind the drawing since the rankings help intensify the judges' bias. The ISU uses the world rank in skating order which help pre-judge the PCS. I agree with Sonia that the PCS is extremely unfair to skaters since it does not reflect the skater performance on that day but dictated by the rank and past performance. They group the skaters as top 5 of the world, will get 8 or more, lower rank, will get PCS lower according to the rank which is extremely unfair. Nobody can tell when should the skaters get PCS of 6.0 or 6.5. Frequenlty, the winner wins by PCS not how he/she skates that day. The GOE is another flaw, judge can give their favorites+3, less favorite 0 or-1. Judges still control the skater's destiny more than 50%. The technical marks are more concrete, skater who falls won't get the marks, judges can't manipulate the tech scores, except for the GOE which still can make difference.
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- Mar 25, 2008
ITA. I've been watching older programs on Youtube, and I don't see how the pre-CoP ones are necessarily superior. I think it's always been the good, the bad and the mediocre. But over time we tend to remember only what was special, not the more average stuff.
I agree with Mathman - it's more about market forces and cultural trends than it is about CoP. I think it's losing popularity in the US because the TV market has gotten fragmented and because the broadcasters and journalists covering the sport aren't making the least amount of effort to make the judging comprehensible to viewers - it is possible to criticize the system whiel still making sure viewers understand what's going on; Chris and Nicky manage to do this on Eurosport. And really, there were strange results in every system figure skating was judged under, and there are questionnable calls in every sport that has officiating.
I think the biggest reason figure skating is losing popularity in the US is that there is no dominant US lady. If there's a new Michelle Kwan currently in novice or intermediate competition, I'm guessing skating will make a comeback.
That's because ladies' was the one discipline not dominated by the Soviets/Russians
. Seriously, though - I do agree this has generally been the weakest discipline at Europeans; I'm not sure why that is. But as I've written before, I don't think Ms. Bianchetti was paying that much attention to the men's, pairs and dance this year, or she would have noticed that there was some really good skating.- Joined
- Mar 23, 2008
Interesting. In effect, by advocating that the PR mark return to a relative format, she is suggesting exactly the same thing as my Hybrid system idea, though she didn't come out and say "Hybrid." I emailed her about it and asked if she had any ideas as to how to reconcile the workings of a hybrid system where TE is based on current CoP-type points, and PR is a relative scale like 6.0 or 10.0. This simply makes the most sense. But I still can't figure out how to make it work without dual ordinals and unfortunate tie-breaking methods...
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- Jul 11, 2003
If the Americans need a good PR man, or a stellar lady skater then that is an American problem. Figure skating in America has never been newsbreaking except for the Olympics, or some probem outside the sphere of skating.
The American media has never championed the 4 disciplines in figure skating and so most Americans expect the Lady competitors are of primary importance, and the younger the better. It makes human interest stories more public interesting than it does the 4-part actual sport. This premise has been maintained through the years, and one can turn to the 'boards' and see that among the faithful, the Ladies division is what is most discussed. The question begs, how can we get more men interested in figure skating? Not in America, I am afraid. It remains a 4-year Oly sport.
I also feel that allowing figure skating to be what it is - a small sport of large importance to a minority of sports fans - in America and there is no need to increase public interest.
No one has mentioned the popularity of figure skating worldwide, or at least in an other country besides N.America.
Bianchetti should know if the sport has declined in interest in Europe.
The American media has never championed the 4 disciplines in figure skating and so most Americans expect the Lady competitors are of primary importance, and the younger the better. It makes human interest stories more public interesting than it does the 4-part actual sport. This premise has been maintained through the years, and one can turn to the 'boards' and see that among the faithful, the Ladies division is what is most discussed. The question begs, how can we get more men interested in figure skating? Not in America, I am afraid. It remains a 4-year Oly sport.
I also feel that allowing figure skating to be what it is - a small sport of large importance to a minority of sports fans - in America and there is no need to increase public interest.
No one has mentioned the popularity of figure skating worldwide, or at least in an other country besides N.America.
Bianchetti should know if the sport has declined in interest in Europe.
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- Mar 25, 2008
As far as I know, it's pretty popular in Japan and S. Korea. As for Europe, I'm guessing that if Eurosport finally decided to show the GP series - even if they pre-empted parts of it to show snooker and assorted winter sports - then there must be a reason, ratings-wise. Option two is that they are trying to get viewers interested in time for the Vancouver Olympics, which I imagine they'll be broadcasting and for which it will probably be more of a challenge to draw audiences than Torino, considering the time difference.
Also, maybe the skating with the stars-type shows have gotten the public at least somewhat interested, so that new viewers might be checking out events on TV. IIRC, Ant has mentioned more people signing up for classes in the UK.
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- Jul 26, 2003
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In fact, if NBC wants to drum up interest for the skating events in the Olympics (and particularly ice dance, where the US might just squeak out a bronze) it could do worse than to purchase rights to broadcast a version of skating with the Stars. And they should include our current ice dancers/skaters as the dancers with the stars rather than past ice dancers/skaters.
The Russian version certainly helped interest in skating in Russia, and as you reported, it upped interest in the UK. There's no reason it wouldn't work here. Have fluffs about the skaters and their Olympic dream on that show, and limit fluffs on the Skating broadcasts, too.
The Russian version certainly helped interest in skating in Russia, and as you reported, it upped interest in the UK. There's no reason it wouldn't work here. Have fluffs about the skaters and their Olympic dream on that show, and limit fluffs on the Skating broadcasts, too.
