Lutai arrested for car theft

Tonichelle · Nov 21, 2009

I think this case is apt to have long-term international repercussions, and all because someone foolish left their keys in the ignition.

yes, because it's the car owner's fault that a drunk got in their car and drove off. please. if this were any other non-celeb we wouldn't be getting our panties in a bunch, but because of his *potential* he's some how absolved from the same basic way of going about things as any other court proceding...

he could come from the moon for all I care. he's in the US, he has to follow the laws of the land, not of the mother country.

janetfan · Nov 21, 2009

veritasetaequitas said:
Well, this is an interesting post thus far.

The facts are that Lutai does not drink, he does not have a previous criminal record like some skaters mentioned on this post, and he comes from a stable, respectable family. He has been a good student and an asset to his community. His reputation in St. Petersburg is exemplary. If he did commit these crimes, which remains undetermined by the court, then it is not his typical behavior.

Janetfan has spent a lot of time on this thread delineating what is or is not fair, humiliating, culturally relative or newsworthy. This has caused some to neglect the facts and, as Janetfan has kindly shared with us, the few US articles available on the subject. Much focus has been placed upon US news sources, and the fact that this is an international issue has been largely ignored. It is getting more attention in St. Petersburg and Moscow than it is by the Adirondack Press or bankrupt Philadelphia presses.
It should be noted that turn-about is fair play, and as it has been noted on this thread “fairness” is subjective. In slightly more than four years an entire US delegation of athletes will settle into Sochi. Olympic villages can become “interesting places” where many (potentially illegal) things happen. Sochi is a lovely resort city that I am sure they will enjoy, maybe even to excess.

If an athlete does commit a crime and enters the Russian juridical process, then I can only suspect that there will not be so much justification for handcuffs, chains, or jail-time occurring. As Janetfan noted, that athlete will be painted as such a “VICTIM” (original author’s emphasis) of Russian cruelty, and then when it is “one of our own” it will become an international event. After all, Sochi is a resort city, not a serene village like Lake Placid.

If this offends posters of this forum- then I do apologize. However, I have shared truth and tried to be equitable.

Your post seems fine to me. Our views are different but there is no reason for them to be the same.

I would point out that it seems to be untrue that Lutai does not drink. He was tested and found to have been drinking quite a lot. That would appear to be the fact as opposed to the opinion you offered.

One of the very first posts I made on this thread noted that any American athlete competing in any competition in Russia will have to be very careful as "payback" is certainly possible. I am sure our athletes will be especially advised not to get drunk and steal cars.

One of the things I have heard from several posters is how unfair it is to keep humiliating Lutai with TV coverage of him in manacles and a prison suit.
I have NOT seen any coverage of Lutai on TV. I mostly work at home and typically have my TV on alot. I listen to CNN and ESPN and MSNBC.

I have not heard a word or seen an image or any reference to Lutai since this unfortunate incident. So if Lutai is being "humiliated by this affair I would have to place most of the blame on the Russian and other Euro media who according to you and a few others are apparently running non-stop stories and broadcasts about this "incident."

Why is the Russian/Euro media humiliating Lutai ? It would appear to sell papers and to get better ratings for their TV broadcasts.

So let's be fair and clear about this - US newspapers and TV are NOT showing Lutai on TV or writing about him very much in newspapers. He is absolutely invisible to the American public.

Russian and Euro media are apparently the one's who have intentionally chosen to humiliate someone in trouble - apparently a good boy - and now that I think about this it makes ME angry.

Shame on the insensitve Russian and Euro media for humiliating and exploiting poor Lutai for their own profit.

And how oddly ironic that so many nice posters here falsely accuse US media of doing precisely what their own medias are doing to Lutai.

If I didn't feel very sorry about Lutai's regretable circumstances I would be LMAO over some of the remarks I have read here.
But I am NOT laughing and hope he is able to go home ASAP.

life684 · Nov 21, 2009

janetfan said:
Your post seems fine to me. Our views are different but there is no reason for them to be the same.

I would point out that it seems to be untrue that Lutai does not drink. He was tested and found to have been drinking quite a lot. That would appear to be the fact as opposed to the opinion you offered.

One of the very first posts I made on this thread noted that any American athlete competing in any competition in Russia will have to be very careful as "payback" is certainly possible. I am sure our athletes will be especially advised not to get drunk and steal cars.

One of the things I have heard from several posters is how unfair it is to keep humiliating Lutai with TV coverage of him in manacles and a prison suit.
I have NOT seen any coverage of Lutai on TV. I mostly work at home and typically have my TV on alot. I listen to CNN and ESPN and MSNBC.

I have not heard a word or seen an image or any reference to Lutai since this unfortunate incident. So if Lutai is being "humiliated by this affair I would have to place most of the blame on the Russian and other Euro media who according to you and a few others are apparently running non-stop stories and broadcasts about this "incident."

Why is the Russian/Euro media humiliating Lutai ? It would appear to sell papers and to get better ratings for their TV broadcasts.

So let's be fair and clear about this - US newspapers and TV are NOT showing Lutai on TV or writing about him very much in newspapers. He is absolutely invisible to the American public.

Russian and Euro media are apparently the one's who have intentionally chosen to humiliate someone in trouble - apparently a good boy - and now that I think about it it makes ME angry.

Shame on the insensitve Russian and Euro media for humiliating and exploiting poor Lutai for their own profit.

And how oddly ironic that so many nice posters here falsely accuse US media of doing precisely what their own medias appear to be doing.

If I didn't feel very sorry about Lutai's regretable circumstances I would be LMAO over some of the remarks I have read here.

By your logic it is easy to say that it was US and international media that humiliated Victims of atrocity at Abu Gharab rather than the Military officers at Abu Gharab. You don't have to justify everything your Govt. and police Officers do, janetfan?.

the case is more and more getting confusing as day passes, i hope to hear Lutai's side of the story soon.

janetfan · Nov 21, 2009

life684 said:
By your logic it is easy to say that it was US and international media that humiliated Victims of atrocity at Abu Gharab rather than the Military officers at Abu Gharab. You don't have to justify everything your Govt. and police Officers do, janetfan?.

the case is more and more getting confusing as day passes, i hope to hear Lutai's side of the story soon.

Your point is very well taken and I most certainly agree with you.

Yet I wonder why you left my last sentence off when you quoted me? Here it is.......

"But I am NOT laughing and hope he is able to go home ASAP."

My last remarks were meant for a few who have erroneously claimed that the US media is humiliating Lutai. Of course that is not even close to the truth.
It has also become apparent to me that certain national medias are exploiting Lutai's situation for all it is worth. And I find that ironic and felt it should be addressed.

I agree with you in principle though - but just wanted to set the record straight.

The post you quoted had nothing to do with the US government or NY state law enforcement. Read my post again and you will find no references to any government agencies or any defense of their actions, or of our laws.

Sorry if my words are somewhat inconvenient but it appears to be indisputable that Lutai is being exploited - but just not by the American media.

So yes,as far as Lutai's case is concerned my last post was defending the US media - but not our government.

Sadly we Americans lag far beyond Euros who have taken the "art" of tabloid reporting to grand heights we will never be able to equal.

Dodhiyel · Nov 21, 2009

pippa said:
Right. Saying that US athletes who compete in Russia had better watch out because you are "very sure that Russians will remember Lake Placid 2009" was not a threat. Okaaaaay.

As I and others have said, if an American breaks the law in Russia, they should be prosecuted according to Russian law. We have no problem with that. It is rather disturbing that you and veritasetaequitas feel the need to suggest that Russians might be specifically looking to arrest Americans in retaliation for a Russian being prosecuted according to US law for something he did in our country.

Pippa, I was so tired last night, that I just wanted to go to bed, and not waste any more time arguing with you, although you seem not to have read the same articles I have read, regarding the facts of this case. Perhaps you have a private source. I still do not want to waste my time, so I shall not write a point by point rebuttal.

I want to take this opportunity to apologize to the administration, for writing back-to-back posts last night. My reason for doing so, was that I had submitted one post to answer Pippa's, and right afterwards, saw that Pippa had already submitted another new post accusing me of being threatening, and I felt that I needed to answer that. I was so tired at that time, that my attempts to add my answer to my previous post were fumbling, so I gave up and just wrote a second, short post. Sorry about that.

FYI, Pippa, I am an American, and a mature adult. I am concerned for U.S. athletes abroad. Awareness of history and the current news articles with the international tit-for-tat diplomacy which those evince, leads to concern about the repercussions of this case. "Great oaks from little acorns grow".

janetfan · Nov 21, 2009

Mathman said:
Actually, the whole "presumed innocent until proven guilty" thing is quite a legal tangle. Police do not arrest people that they presume are innocent. They arrest people that they presume are guilty. Then when the arrested person goes to court the judge must presume that he is innocent. But actually, the judge presumes that he is guilty. If the judge truly presumed that the accused person were innocent, then that person would not have to post bond, hire a lawyer, spend a night in jail, etc. Rather, that's what happens to people who are presumed guilty. If the prisoner does not enter a plea, the court enters a plea on his behalf -- not guilty. Because he is presumed to be innocent. Then they put him in jail until the trial because they presume he is guilty.

Anyway, go Cincinnati Reds!

Thanks for this post mathman.
I am surprised that no one replied to, or disputed what you wrote.

Sometimes a bit of humor combined with some simple logic goes a long way even when discussing something as complex as a legal system.

Here are some pictures to consider. There are of course many more, and from all walks of American life. The very rich and very famous as well as powerful politicians have all had their "picture" taken under less than idea circumstances.

http://images.tvnz.co.nz/tvnz_images/news2009/united states/oj_simpson_convicted_2.jpg

http://blogs.usatoday.com/gameon/2009/07/nicole-bobeks-mug-shot-is-not-a-pretty-thing.html

http://www.mugshots.org/hollywood/al-pacino.html

http://www.mugshots.org/hollywood/keanu-reeves.html

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/fonda1970mug1.html

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/michaeljacksonmug1.html

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/morrisonmug1.html

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/gcarlinmug1.html

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/sinatramug1.html

veritasetaequitas · Nov 21, 2009

Misrepresentation

Pippa, I will not have you twist my words and paint me as some conspiracy theorist. Since you misinterpreted what I said before, I will kindly repost the pertinent comments below.

In post 110 I said:
“If an athlete does commit a crime and enters the Russian juridical process, then I can only suspect that there will not be so much justification for handcuffs, chains, or jail-time occurring. As Janetfan noted, that athlete will be painted as such a “VICTIM” (original author’s emphasis) of Russian cruelty, and then when it is “one of our own” it will become an international event. After all, Sochi is a resort city, not a serene village like Lake Placid.”

I post 122, which did not contradict my earlier post, I reaffirmed that:
“I said that all this talk of victimization will occur again. If an American is arrested in Russia it is because they allegedly did something wrong, will enter the juridical process and will be punished or released depending upon the verdict. Undoubtedly, if such an event occurs and a thread is posted there will be the same type of reactions and discussions of fairness, politics and everything as usual. I've seen it on threads discussing Yagudin, Staviskiiy, Bobek and others.”

I wrote that response because you accused me of suggesting “that Russians might be specifically looking to arrest Americans in retaliation.” I was speaking conditionally, which is why I used the word “if” in the first post, and my comment was not about a fear of Russian retaliation. It was about the comments that would be made if such an event occurs. Rather than denying my words, I have reaffirmed them and their original intent, which you egregiously misrepresented.

I specifically included the word incident in my post because you were attacking another GS member; if you read my earlier post you will find that I preferred to use the term event.

Pippa, you should be on the editing board for Oxford Dictionary, which does have an academic reputation, so that you can share what you found on Wikipedia. Those “absurd” people at Oxford find incident and event to be synonymous. According to them, an incident is “an event or occurrence.” How ludicrous, but that is just the Oxford way- what do they know?

pippa · Nov 21, 2009

Why, veritasetaequitas, how wonderful to hear from you again! But I thought you said you were leaving on a trip and so couldn't reply any more to someone as intellectually inferior as me? :laugh:

I have already responded to your earlier (very rude, sarcastic and attacking post) and won't bother to do so again. But spare me any more of your lectures on what sources I should use for definitions, since you have again failed to support the definition of "International incident" which you entirely made up yourself, despite your attack on me for using what you deem not to be a "scholarly source" to define the same phrase.

If the Oxford English Dictionary has a definition of "international incident", which I highly doubt (I am a librarian and very familiar with OED, by the way) you have failed to supply it. The OED's definition of a single word in that phrase is not at all the same as a definition of the entire phrase - a phrase which is commonly used to mean something entirely different from the phrase "international event". But a scholarly academic like you should know that.

Why, you should simply replace the editing boards of every etymological source in the world all by yourself, since you have determined that your own superior mind is the definitive source of all meanings. Then you can make it official that "international incident" and "international event" actually mean the same thing.

veritasetaequitas · Nov 21, 2009

janetfan said:
Your post seems fine to me. Our views are different but there is no reason for them to be the same.

I would point out that it seems to be untrue that Lutai does not drink. He was tested and found to have been drinking quite a lot. That would appear to be the fact as opposed to the opinion you offered...

So let's be fair and clear about this - US newspapers and TV are NOT showing Lutai on TV or writing about him very much in newspapers. He is absolutely invisible to the American public.

Russian and Euro media are apparently the one's who have intentionally chosen to humiliate someone in trouble - apparently a good boy - and now that I think about this it makes ME angry.

Shame on the insensitve Russian and Euro media for humiliating and exploiting poor Lutai for their own profit...
.

Yes, Janetfan, we do think quite differently.

Regarding his drinking, he does not have a history of consuming alcohol, and this is the first (at least public) time that he has done so. If you can find other examples of his past drinking, then please provide them and enlighten us all. Unlike Bobek, who you have mentioned a few times, he does not have a confirmed drug problem or a history of criminal acts. You can of course give your opinion, but these are the facts.

You have continually declared him to be invisible, which I find relatively condescending (my opinion I could be wrong). I am no real fan of Lutai, but he has been on his national podium and skated in international competitions. He does have some amount of visibility and even a fan-base here. I do not claim that Joe Six-Pack walking down the street would recognize him, but there is a good chance that he wouldn’t even recognize any of the US National champions either. Does Lutai enjoy widespread popularity here? No, I think that is clear. However, if he is invisible, what then exactly are you?

Personally, I am not claiming that the press has humiliated him. I stated that the Russians have paid more attention to this matter than the US media. You have been very clear about the relative inattention being paid to him by US national and local media, and I did not disagree with you on that. I won’t comment about press dollars, insensitive journalists, or the intentions of the media, because that would be speculation and opinion. However, if others want to discuss these issues, and I am sure they will, then all the better for them.

So, Janetfan, thank you for your posts. I do appreciate them. We will never agree on this matter, but thank you for all the work you put in on this topic.

janetfan · Nov 21, 2009

veritasetaequitas said:
Yes, Janetfan, we do think quite differently.

Regarding his drinking, he does not have a history of consuming alcohol, and this is the first (at least public) time that he has done so. If you can find other examples of his past drinking, then please provide them and enlighten us all. Unlike Bobek, who you have mentioned a few times, he does not have a confirmed drug problem or a history of criminal acts. You can of course give your opinion, but these are the facts.

You have continually declared him to be invisible, which I find relatively condescending (my opinion I could be wrong). I am no real fan of Lutai, but he has been on his national podium and skated in international competitions. He does have some amount of visibility and even a fan-base here. I do not claim that Joe Six-Pack walking down the street would recognize him, but there is a good chance that he wouldn’t even recognize any of the US National champions either. Does Lutai enjoy widespread popularity here? No, I think that is clear. However, if he is invisible, what then exactly are you?

Personally, I am not claiming that the press has humiliated him. I stated that the Russians have paid more attention to this matter than the US media. You have been very clear about the relative inattention being paid to him by US national and local media, and I did not disagree with you on that. I won’t comment about press dollars, insensitive journalists, or the intentions of the media, because that would be speculation and opinion. However, if others want to discuss these issues, and I am sure they will, then all the better for them.

So, Janetfan, thank you for your posts. I do appreciate them. We will never agree on this matter, but thank you for all the work you put in on this topic.

You are welcome - and I feel very bad for Andrei. This is an Olympic year and I am aware of how harmful this "incident" could be to his career.

I hope he is able to go home, will not be in further trouble with his own federation and is able to skate his best at Russian Natls and Euros and the Olympics (if he makes the team).

My remarks about Lutai being "invisible" are not meant to be a put down. But they are absolutely true. And there has been almost ZERO coverage about him here.

Evan, Johnny, Jeremy are also very anonymous to the American public.
Perhaps Michelle or Sasha might be recognized walking down the street or in a shopping mall - but I would bet most would not recognize them unless someone said, "hey, that is Michelle Kwan." "Michelle who?" might be a reply from many.

Let's keep our fingers crossed and hope the DA will drop the charges over the weekend or by Monday or Tuesday.

Good luck Andrei!:yes:

veritasetaequitas · Nov 21, 2009

News- Immigration Allows Lutai to Leave

Here is a new link to an article that states Lutai has been cleared by immigration and can leave the country. It will be of interest to some here: http://www.wptz.com/news/21679527/detail.html

Janetfan thank you for your recent post, and I am sorry if you felt attacked before. It seems as if he is cleared to leave, and may have left already.

As to Pippa, you accuse me of being rude and sarcastic, but your posts on this thread have been repeatedly condescending. Rude, sarcastic and caustic are only a few descriptors that suit you. However, I won’t call you grumpy, because that is just childish. Thank you for showing such concern over my trip. I slept little and had to get to the airport early, but I have arrived safely at my destination.

To the members of this board, I apologize for the multiple postings. I have posted a news link above, and am glad that immigration cleared Lutai to travel home. I have little interest in engaging in caustic snark-fests, but grew tired of the condescending nature of some on this thread. I will continue to share news in the future, but the conversations on these boards often resemble schoolyards- always a bully or ten.

pippa · Nov 21, 2009

veritasetaequitas said:
As to Pippa, you accuse me of being rude and sarcastic, but your posts on this thread have been repeatedly condescending. Rude, sarcastic and caustic are only a few descriptors that suit you. However, I won’t call you grumpy, because that is just childish. Thank you for showing such concern over my trip. I slept little and had to get to the airport early, but I have arrived safely at my destination.

.

I was indeed sarcastic to you, in response to your unneccessarily bullying, sarcastic and attacking post #119 to me last night because I posted a definition that disagreed with one you made up. There was absolutely no reason for you to be so condescending and sarcastic, but if you are going to be, don't complain that you are being bullied when you get exactly the same back in return. You reap what you sow, verisetaequitas.

So glad you have arrived safely.

janetfan · Nov 21, 2009

veritasetaequitas said:
Here is a new link to an article that states Lutai has been cleared by immigration and can leave the country. It will be of interest to some here: http://www.wptz.com/news/21679527/detail.html

Janetfan thank you for your recent post, and I am sorry if you felt attacked before. It seems as if he is cleared to leave, and may have left already.

.

Thanks for the link. I am glad to read this news! :clap:

:thumbsup:

arty:

ETA: I did not feel attacked as I had nothing to do with this incident.
It will be interesting to hear Andrei's story - or maybe he was advised not to talk as the charges are still pending.

Dodhiyel · Nov 21, 2009

Thank you so much for this news link, veritasetaequitas!!!!!!!!!! :clap:

My immediate reaction was, "Thank God.".

I was so afraid of Andrey being detained in Batavia, and possibly getting hurt there. I am on cloud nine now, even though Andrey still faces the charges. I think this is the right way to handle the case. His lawyer can stand in for him. I think that this is the respectful way for the U.S. to respond in this delicate situation, and I believe that courtesy often begets courtesy in return. I am hopeful that the Lake Placid DA's office will decide, upon examining all the facts, to drop the felony charge altogether.

snowflake · Nov 21, 2009

veritasetaequitas said:
Here is a new link to an article that states Lutai has been cleared by immigration and can leave the country. It will be of interest to some here: http://www.wptz.com/news/21679527/detail.html

Thanks for these news

I am happy for Andrei. Best for him to be home and consider what he has done. Now he can work on his future life with the help from family and friends. Good luck Andrei.

Hsuhs · Nov 21, 2009

Is it true? Is Andrei allowed to return home?

veritasetaequitas, thank you for good news :thumbsup:

Wicked · Nov 21, 2009

90% of cases in the US courts never go to trial- a plea bargain deal is worked out between the prosecution and defense ahead of time. I can't imagine this would be a case that either side, or Andrei, would want to go to trial on. I would think Andrei has been told not to talk about it and the prosecution and defense will be talking to try and come to a good resolution.

Mathman · Nov 21, 2009

A little bit off topic, but did anything come of the incident involving John Baldwin (Inoue and Baldwin) at Cup of Russia last year?

As I recall he went out drinking after the competition and was found wandering around the yard of his hotel the next morning with a bizarre story about having been kidnapped.

pippa · Nov 21, 2009

Mathman said:
A little bit off topic, but did anything come of the incident involving John Baldwin (Inoue and Baldwin) at Cup of Russia last year?

As I recall he went out drinking after the competition and was found wandering around the yard of his hotel the next morning with a bizarre story about having been kidnapped.

Mathman, are you maybe thinking of the incident that happened at the 2006 Grand Prix Final in St. Petersburg? John Baldwin said he was beaten and robbed by a group of men after being taken from a nightclub he and Rena were visiting following the Final.

He said the beating was so bad that he couldn't remember everything that happened, so wasn't sure exactly how he got out of the club or returned to his hotel (he thought he remembered being driven for about 30 minutes before being attacked and robbed at an apartment complex), and he could not identify his attackers. He and Rena left on their flight home immediately and did not file a police report in Russia, so no official action was taken.

plushyta · Nov 21, 2009

veritasetaequitas said:
Here is a new link to an article that states Lutai has been cleared by immigration and can leave the country. It will be of interest to some here: http://www.wptz.com/news/21679527/detail.html
.

Thank you a lot of this information! :agree: I'm glad because Lutay! :clap:

I think he will be in any case to be punished for what (or, If is something) done according to evidence and merit... but I also think that he is not deserved to be in prison before making judgments. :yes:

P.S. maybe I'm a "naive", but I want to believe, that and the "public pressure" (our comments on this forum) had a positive impact on this decision of the U.S. Court

:thumbsup:

Lutai arrested for car theft

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

janetfan

Match Penalty

life684

janetfan

Match Penalty

Dodhiyel

janetfan

Match Penalty

veritasetaequitas

pippa

veritasetaequitas

janetfan

Match Penalty

veritasetaequitas

pippa

janetfan

Match Penalty

Dodhiyel

snowflake

I enjoy what I like

Hsuhs

Wicked

Mathman

pippa

plushyta

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