ISU breaks its own rules ...

dorispulaski · Mar 15, 2010

This thread in the Edge is for discussing the original post by Tony Wheeler.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...Your-Own-Rules&p=485464&viewfull=1#post485464

grossano had further information on his site:
http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/current/content/Chinese Pairs.htm

Please post any further discussion of the ISU breaking its own rule here, and any information about what the ISU plans to do about this situation.

Those wishing to discuss Chinese culture can continue to do so in the Politics folder, where I have moved the old thread.

demarinis5 · Mar 15, 2010

^^Thanks Doris.

Mathman · Mar 15, 2010

In the article about Joannie Rochette's situation Phil Hersh says

ISU director general Fredi Schmid told me by telephone Monday that a "clerical error'' was responsible for the presence of the third Chinese pair and that the situation was ``under review.'')

It seems beyond belief that, if an incorrect invitation was issued by clerical error, the Chinese Federation would not have noticed it. They have been planning to send two teams for a year.

Failing that, you would think the the athletes and their coaches would know something was wrong. If Ashley Wagner had received an erroneous invitation to skate in the Olympics, someone would have noticed, starting with Ashley.

fairly4 · Mar 15, 2010

question--did another team pull out and than that is how china got 3 for junior worlds-just wondering.

Wicked · Mar 15, 2010

Like Mathman says, it is hard to believe that the Chinese federation did not realize this was an error. I also wonder about the other federations that were at Junior Worlds. Why didn't anybody from those federations realize? And how was this finally brought to light? It seems that no one recognized the problem until the competition was over.

blue_idealist · Mar 15, 2010

they probably did realize it was an error, but feign ignorance to take advantage of the extra spot, imo.

Tammi · Mar 15, 2010

Wicked said:
I also wonder about the other federations that were at Junior Worlds. Why didn't anybody from those federations realize? And how was this finally brought to light? It seems that no one recognized the problem until the competition was over.

From what I had heard, US officials at JW's brought it up, so other federations did realize there was a problem. The ISU may have decided to let them compete and then look into the situation following the event. It's really too bad for the pairs team that didn't make the cut off for the freestyle portion of the event :disapp: .

Mafke · Mar 15, 2010

Tammi said:
From what I had heard, US officials at JW's brought it up, so other federations did realize there was a problem. The ISU may have decided to let them compete and then look into the situation following the event. It's really too bad for the pairs team that didn't make the cut off for the freestyle portion of the event :disapp: .

That could have been avoided by letting one extra team make it to the freestyle portion, it would mean some restructuring of the groups but it would have eliminated a lot of the hard feelings. Typical ISU "We make a mistake, the skaters suffer."

*Sniper* · Mar 15, 2010

Oh wow.
As if the judging alone wasn't controversial enough!!

Joesitz (RIP) · Mar 15, 2010

I don't know why this happened but I have to suspect it is involved with money given to the ISU for overlooking their error.

I still believe the Vise Trent case was planned not for Pang and Tong, but for money, for the coffers of unohoo.

they now have a list of senior substitutes. I can't believe there is none for Juniors.

Tammi · Mar 15, 2010

How would money have kept the rest of the federations quiet though? Especially since it means a loss of money and points for those federations skaters who finished below 8th.

jennylovskt · Mar 15, 2010

Mafke said:
That could have been avoided by letting one extra team make it to the freestyle portion, it would mean some restructuring of the groups but it would have eliminated a lot of the hard feelings.

This would have been the best solution as soon as they had discovered the error. Why didn't they?

janetfan · Mar 15, 2010

jennylovskt said:
This would have been the best solution as soon as they had discovered the error. Why didn't they?

Yes, as mathman said - why didn't they? Maybe it is easier to cheat?

jennylovskt · Mar 15, 2010

janetfan said:
Yes, as mathman said - why didn't they? Maybe it is easier to cheat?

Hey, janetfan, did I mean to cover up the error?:sheesh:

I don't know what has happened, and neither do you or anybody here on this board. It's possible that it's like what Mathman said. It's possible that somebody in Chinese federation is as dishonest as some in the ISU judges, in the coaches, in the ISU, in any other federations. Did I oppose that?

What I mean was they might be able to limit the damage from this error to the minimum. Is that wrong? :rolleye:

Joesitz (RIP) · Mar 16, 2010

Tammi said:
How would money have kept the rest of the federations quiet though? Especially since it means a loss of money and points for those federations skaters who finished below 8th.

Why should the other Federations speak out when they all understand that this sort of thing is quite common? I do not think other Feds lose any money but the points lost basically affects the skaters, not the Federations. Has the ISU ever understood that if it were not for the trust of the skaters, there would not be any Union? The ISU has Rules to break, and can make last minute Decisions in their own interests - maybe financially.

Tonichelle · Mar 16, 2010

fairly4 said:
question--did another team pull out and than that is how china got 3 for junior worlds-just wondering.

this isn't like the grand prix where skaters can be replaced from another country's skater... if a country has three spots and one of their planned teams can't go then another one of their skaters go in their place

like Ryan Bradley and Adam Rippon going to Senior Worlds instead of Evan and Johnny.

nylynnr · Mar 19, 2010

Just finish this off -

The ISU has deleted the third Chinese pair from the world junior results.

Mathman · Mar 19, 2010

^ There is still something fishy about this whole episode. There are hundreds of people in the skating world who obsess over every tittle and jot of the ISU rules and every decimal point in the CoP. Some post on this very board.

We have thread after thread on the subject of what our chances are to come up to a total placement of 13 so we can get 3 places instead of 2 at the next go-round.

It is simply not credible that nobody in the ISU noticed that something was wrong and that none of the the thousand ISU-watchers told them about it.

watchvancouver · Mar 19, 2010

Mathman said:
^ There is still something fishy about this whole episode. There are hundreds of people in the skating world who obsess over every tittle and jot of the ISU rules and every decimal point in the CoP. Some post on this very board. We have thread after thread on the subject of what our chances are to come up to a total placement of 13 so we can get 3 places instead of 2 at the next go-round.

It is simply not credible that nobody in the ISU noticed that something was wrong and that none of the the thousand ISU-watchers told them about it.

Well this reaffirms we are just a bunch of over-obsessive fans who are completely out of touch of real world. What fishy about this episode? Do you really believe if ISU thought they could get away with it if they deliberately did this?
The truth is I doubt many non-English skating federations have the manpower or patience to dig through each page of ISU's rule books. China got a 3rd invitation, so they grabbed this opportunity, why not?

Mathman · Mar 20, 2010

watchvancouver said:
The truth is I doubt many non-English skating federations have the manpower or patience to dig through each page of ISU's rule books.

Well, you had the patience.

I would hope that there is someone in the Chinese Federation who has read the rules on qualifying teams for junior worlds.

China got a 3rd invitation, so they grabbed this opportunity, why not?

So they would know in their hearts that they are honest men, and so that they would not end up looking like crooks and fools when they got caught.

ISU breaks its own rules ...

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

Mathman

fairly4

Wicked

blue_idealist

Tammi

Mafke

Sniper

Joesitz (RIP)

Tammi

jennylovskt

janetfan

Match Penalty

jennylovskt

Joesitz (RIP)

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

nylynnr

Mathman

watchvancouver

Match Penalty

Mathman

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