Kim's representatives end Orser's coaching relationship threads merged

One thing I want to say is that Yu-na's representative that spoke to Hersh, doesn't seem to have the best command of the English language. This is her translator. Its totally possible that "caring for example meant working". The fact that this is the translator, can mean that well all kinds of possible miscommunication could occur.

I'll say this too, I think one point needs to be made that when Yu-na went to Orser he was not the hottest coach on the planet, by any means. And now he is with more and more students. Perhaps Yu-na never wanted to have a coach who had a billion students ,and just because she's out of the GP this year doesn't mean she'll be out next year. Not to mention what happens if Gao becomes competitive. While Orser can totally take on students and is entitled, Yu-na is also entitled to feel like maybe she wants a coach with a more flexible schedule.

I wish everyone would take a step back and stop letting this play out in the media. I do think that over at ATS some changes need to be made. The Mao reference unnecessary.

bekalc said:

The Mao reference unnecessary.

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The Mao reference has never been. They said "an other skater" (and, considering translations problems, they may have intended also "too many skaters"). Fans decided it was Mao.

Mrs. P said:

I'm still skeptical. Yuna has barely used her Twitter account in the last months and suddenly she decides to post today? And does Brian Orser have Twitter? If not, then why bother?

I wouldn't be surprised if her mom (or her agent) knew her password and just wrote it FOR her and trying to make it like it came from her.

This whole thing just seems so out of whack.

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Mrs.P, I'm not picking on your or anything, I just picked the closest post to note that said tweet from Yu-Na appears to have been removed, as it's no longer on her page. I do have to agree it seemed extremely unlike her to post such a thing.

All they had to do was issue a one-sentence announcement about the coaching change. Let the media and fans guess whatever they wanted to. Take the high road and stop trying to slime each other.

i love to skate said:

Is this her real twitter??? http://twitter.com/yunaaaa



If so, I just lost a lot of respect for her...

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She never applealed to me a person off ice (or on, for that matter) - she seemed cold and contrived. Yet after such success as the OGM, she really does owe her team at least a personal email. The silence in the summer, if true, was very rude. And I don't buy the whole "her mother controls things", and "she's confused" angles. She is a star, within the top 5 of female athletes in terms of material success and has plenty of experience dealing with people. She can take responsibility and deal with the situation - FIND OUT what's going on, or fix/resolve/conclude things herself. The "I'm confused" just seems like an excuse, a way out from taking any responsibility in this matter. Well, it seems it really is true - money can't buy you class.

The problem with making your mom your defacto manager is that unless she really has managerial experience in the field in question she won't know how a lot of things are done and will make costly, embarassing and unnecessary public mistakes.

My current theory: Orser's known about this for a while and was waiting for the overtures to be made for a diplomatic joint statement. Meanwhile Kim's management doesn't even know that's expected and so finally he has to go into damage control mode for his own sake.

The twitter is either not her (I suspect an uber with hacking skills) or she published it in a fit of emotion (isn't she technically still a teenager?) immediately regretted it and took it down. I'm in favor of giving her a break on that one so far (pending further dirt being slung).

^ I think that's a sensible guess.

However, the best damage control Orser could have done was to say nothing. Take the high road and let the other side look like the bad guys.

Mathman said:

^ I think that's a sensible guess.

However, the best damage control Orser could have done was to say nothing. Take the high road and let the other side look like the bad guys.

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Exactly, look at how Frank handles splits publically copy it. Be thankful at least Yu-na didn't leave in the Olympic season, so you get to say you coached an OGM.

To be honest though I'm not sure why one has to be good other person has to be bad. Good people get into disagreements and do bad things. I think rather stuff happened that made the relationship break down. Yu-na awhile ago seemed to really respect Orser, and so I hardly imagine she'd just out of the blue stop answering his emails. Given the Cricket Club reports that things were chilly between Brian and Yu-na for months, stuff happened. This doesn't mean though that Brian doesn't have a reason to be hurt too.

Frankly once people start getting into he did this she did that, it only brings more scrutiny on yourself.....

I don't think Brian needs to do damage control because I don't think he said anything wrong. He has expressed well wishes to Yuna and has expressed his disappointment and confusion on the subject matter. He hasn't said anything bad about anyone in Yuna's camp. If they were upset about Brian spending time with other skaters, that makes them just look ridiculous, IMO.

i love to skate said:

I don't think Brian needs to do damage control because I don't think he said anything wrong. He has expressed well wishes to Yuna and has expressed his disappointment and confusion on the subject matter. He hasn't said anything bad about anyone in Yuna's camp. If they were upset about Brian spending time with other skaters, that makes them just look ridiculous, IMO.

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Thank you. I agree.

i love to skate said:

Thanks for the information on her Mom! I too am wondering why? There have been so many articles, so I can't remember where this came from but one article suggested that Yuna's team was not happy that Brian was focusing on other students and they believed that Yuna did not seem to be his top priority anymore. That certainly could have ruffled some feathers. However, with Yuna not doing the Grand Prix and with rampant rumours of possible retirement, it is pretty unrealistic to expect a coach to focus all of his time on just one skater who may or may not be heading into retirement. It simply could not have been handled a million times better from Yuna's team.

Another big question I have is, why is Kwak leaving Brian as well???



This is an interesting point as it is similar to the way Patrick Chan left Don Laws. I believe his father was the one to call Don and offer the part time coach idea or whatever it was, I can't remember. Either way, it seems that some skaters let their parents do their "dirty work" so to speak. Many skaters appear to be a bit coddled and I wish they would act like the adults they are in these types of situations.

ETA: I just found this article: http://www.universalsports.com/blogs/blog=gofigure/postid=490058.html
This paragraph certainly made me shake my head. It appears that she does have some stage mother qualities. Poor Aera as well. :disapp::

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Yuna's mom is known to be very involved in Yuna's skating career. If you watch the discovery channel documentary about Yuna and Seoul, you will see that Yuna's mom is always by her side, watching her practice, standing by when Yuna receives treatment for her injuries, etc. In the documentary Yuna at age 13 even said that her mom would not let her eat well at night and so her stomach would growl all night long, presumably this was because the mom wanted Yuna to stay as thin as possible. She organized the family's budget to accommodate Yuna's skating since Yuna was like 7 years old. Clearly she is an intense "rink mom". That doesn't mean she's a bad person with mean intentions, she could be sweet and perfectly lovely, but she most definitely was very involved in her daughter's skating career every step of the way.

As for Min-Jung, she's in Yuna's mom's agency, and clearly someone (or possibly more than one person) on Team Yuna - be it Yuna herself, her mother, or her agents, etc - had some kind of falling out with Brian and now has bitter feelings toward him. Brian took Kwak on as a student because of Yuna essentially, and Min-Jung AFAIK does not speak fluent English, Yuna was one of her only Korean friends in Toronto, so why would she want to stay and train halfway around the World from her home if her only Korean friend is no longer there and her coach has bitter feelings toward the agency supporting her and potentially even toward her friend/idol (Yuna) and her mother. It would be more awkward if she did stay, IMO, after all the crap that went down, I imagine it must be awkward for Min-Jung to be there, just because she is so closely associated with Yuna, Yuna's mom, and ATS. She'll likely just go back to Korea and train with Hae-Jin, Soo-Yoon, and Ho-Jung, she was doing just fine before she went to Orser so if she works hard she should be good enough to keep 2 spots for Korea at major international championships. Plus she's pretty famous in Korea now and if she goes back she'll get to go to school and be with her friends again.

Originally Posted by i love to skate
I don't think Brian needs to do damage control because I don't think he said anything wrong. He has expressed well wishes to Yuna and has expressed his disappointment and confusion on the subject matter. He hasn't said anything bad about anyone in Yuna's camp. If they were upset about Brian spending time with other skaters, that makes them just look ridiculous, IMO.

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I think comments like Yu-na will come back to coaching me if her mother decides this. And that he thinks Yu-na is confused, kind of is saying some bad things about someone in Yu-na's camp-Yu-na's mother. It implies Yu-na is essentially a puppet.

i love to skate said:

I don't think Brian needs to do damage control because I don't think he said anything wrong. He has expressed well wishes to Yuna and has expressed his disappointment and confusion on the subject matter. He hasn't said anything bad about anyone in Yuna's camp...

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? In the Hersh article Orser goes on at length about how abused he is and how disrespectfully he was treated.

He could have just gone with the "well wishes to Kim" part and left the rest alone.

Mathman said:

? In the Hersh article Orser goes on at length about how abused he is and how and disrespectfully he was teated.

He could have just gone with the "well wishes to Kim" part and left the rest alone.

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Not to mention the fact that reports in the Cricket Club are that Yu-na and Orser were not getting along well, she wasn't training with him at all, they were barely talking etc. And that she may have even written a latter saying his services weren't needed. Which would be why they might not think its necessary to answer Brian's emails. At the very least the "out of the blue thing" makes no sense.

Mathman said:

? In the Hersh article Orser goes on at length about how abused he is and how disrespectfully he was treated.

He could have just gone with the "well wishes to Kim" part and left the rest alone.

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I don't believe he said he was "abused".

He was treated disrespectfully: Firing him with no reason given, not answering emails (why on earth wouldn't you answer them), finding out from the media that Yuna was not competing this year until Worlds, going behind their backs and hiring Shae Lynn for choreography, etc. You don't think that was an uncomfortable conversation,

"Hey Brian, it's Shae. I just found out Yuna wants me to do her choreography!"
"Umm, what??"

And all the while she continues to use the ice at Cricket...

Now with her agent saying in an interview that no one cared about Yuna :disapp:....bridges have been burned I think. All in all, she should leave Cricket immediately. I wouldn't be surprised if she is kicked out.

i love to skate said:

I don't believe he said he was "abused".

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I should have said "insulted."

He was treated disrespectfully.

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My point was that it would have been more professional if he had not responded publicly to this disrespect except to say that he wished Yu-na well.

Just say, "be happy in the life you have chosen" and you end up above the mud-bath.

Mathman said:

My point was that it would have been more professional if he had not responded publicly to this disrespect except to say that he wished Yu-na well.

Just say, "be happy in the life you have chosen" and you end up above the mud-bath.

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People are always saying that people in the skating community are too "PC" and show no personality. Fact of the matter is that Brian is pissed off. I would be too.

BTW, it looks like that Twitter account is indeed Yuna's.

Either way, Brian will still have tons of skaters wanting to be coached by him so he won't be hurt at all by this. It will be interesting to see what Yuna's future holds...

That quickly removed tweet form Yuna's account closely echos her agent Choi's reply to Hersh in his second article. To me, this sounds like someone on Yuna's team convinced her of their side of the story, whatever it may be. Note how the tweet said she understands *now* why it had to happen, and how *she* has decided. It sounds like to me maybe Brian Orser has been placing his last hopes on Yuna herself, to maybe escape her mother/team's influence, to strike out on her own with him. It sounds like from the articles that he waited 3 weeks to go public with the split because all this time he was trying to reach her, and I have no doubt her mom/team has been restricting his access to Yuna. Maybe Brian is saying so much in the press because he feels like it's the only way for him to tell Yuna things. If he's been trying to talk to Yuna, and Yuna still trains at his rink, AND her mom is present at every practice, one can just imagine the daily tension among them.

Even if Choi is being honest about the timeline, it still says very clearly that Brian was only told about the "reason" of the split on August 2. That means he was kept in the dark all summer. Whether they gave him a clear/fair enough reason, or maybe he just had a hard time digesting it, that's still a very long time not to be told anything.

I am really puzzled about the reason for the split. Obviously Kim's side feels like the reason is obvious (but being approached by someone on Mao's behalf, or paying too much attention to other skaters, these sound like just excuses to me), and Brian doesn't. If he wasn't gay, I'd say that the only explanation that really fits, outlandish as it may seem, is that there's some (suspected) romantic interest between Brian and Yuna. Then everything falls into place. Yuna's mom preventing them from speaking to each other, her refusal to explain to the media the reason for the split, Brian's utter confusion for the reason of the split, etc.

In any case, romantic interest or not, there was definitely an extreme closeness between Brian and Yuna over the last four years that *everyone* can see. To say Yuna was his top priority is an under-statement. I always felt like she was *extremely* lucky to have him as a coach. He was exactly what she needed -- he helped her find passion and confidence on ice, and came up with an optimal training regime that kept her healthy and tippy-top shape, and he was extremely smart in playing the CoP game. Even without any romantic interest, this was a close relationship that was far more than your typical coach-skater one, especially since she was his first big skater and serious project. It's like breaking up with your first love, there's got to be a whole lot of hurt and misunderstanding right now on both sides, worsened by the language barrier, the media, Kim's "team", etc.

i love to skate said:

People are always saying that people in the skating community are too "PC" and show no personality. Fact of the matter is that Brian is pissed off. I would be too.

BTW, it looks like that Twitter account is indeed Yuna's.

Either way, Brian will still have tons of skaters wanting to be coached by him so he won't be hurt at all by this. It will be interesting to see what Yuna's future holds...

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The point is you have just heard Brian's side of the story. You don't know Yu-na's. There's always two sides to any argument. People don't from tears of gratitude towards not replying to what happened without something having gone down. I'm not saying Brian is evil or anything like that but rather that there are two sides.

And once again its just always a good idea to stay above the fray. Because once you start getting into the wrongs that one side did to you, what's to stop them from getting into the wrongs that they feel was done to them. And its totally possible that they do feel some wrongs were done.

And as for the "cared for" its pretty clear that translator does not have great English. Its possible she meant worked for.

[QUOTEIt sounds like to me maybe Brian Orser has been placing his last hopes on Yuna herself, to maybe escape her mother/team's influence, to strike out on her own with him][/QUOTE]

Kim's mother is the parent, and that relationship lasts a lot longer than any coaching relationship. A coach should never "pit" their last hopes on the idea of a skater breaking away from their parent. Such a decision would be way to emotional for the skater. Its way better to let the break up happen casually, let the skater move on. And hey maybe eventually a personal relationship can happen again, because you've made it clear that you've accepted the parent's role.

By publically pitting himself against Yu-na's mother, Brian's made it really impossible for that relationship to continue.


I say this as a teacher, a child's parent is a child's parent. Unless that parent is abusive and while it sounds like Mama Kim was a tought skating mother but did have her daughters interest in heart. You don't ever pit yourself against the parent in front of the child. You just can't ever expect a child to pick you over their mom or dad.

i love to skate said:

Fact of the matter is that Brian is pissed off. I would be too.

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So would I

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if he was told very clearly (in a Korean kind of way) what was going on but he didn't understand (since he's not Korean). FWIW I've had direct experience with Asians (from more than country) who simply don't answer emails as a polite, non-confrontational way of turning down an offer or breaking off a working relationship (it had to be explained to me once after which I understood).

Two issues:

He's poisoning the well for Kim a little, letting other coaches know as publicly as possible that helping their skater win the ogm wasn't enough for team Kim (can you say: 'high maintenance?') and you take Kim (and her team) on at your own risk of being treated like an unwanted servant.

He's poisoning the well for himself a little too, making it clear that he's not going to suffer in silence if he doesn't like the way a coaching relationship ended.