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- Jul 11, 2003
It's difficult to believe you can categorize the sex appeal of Figure Skaters and yet comment on their ability to compete. How much influence does that sex appeal give in scoring?
What will the 2011/2012 season bring us in the men?
- Thread starter ImaginaryPogue
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It's difficult to believe you can categorize the sex appeal of Figure Skaters and yet comment on their ability to compete. How much influence does that sex appeal give in scoring?
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- Jul 11, 2003
You will notice it is mostly women posters who get involved in this sexcapades thing.
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- Jul 11, 2003
I'm with you on the discussion, Senorita but Miki Ando is a great jumper.^if you are talking about me, it was actually a sarcasm
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- Sep 10, 2009
The definition of "masculinity" is vague? :disapp:
Not if you want to put skaters in fair positions. But when unisex styles, to say the least, gets preferences from judges, it doesn't look fair at all. The naturally masculine guys should do ... like what? Not to skate at all, knowing that they will lose anyway?
For me Yag with his Oly will be the most featured representative of male sexualized skating. I am sure there were guys before them, like Petrenko with his one of the best 3A ever. I was just too little at their times or didn't exist at all. Plush was still a teen at Yag's reigning time. I disagree with those who say that masculine skating is not supposed to be emotional. Or maybe I misunderstood the phrase. Men are emotional, they just represent it in a different way, off-ice and on-ice too.
As for Japanese skaters, being groomed is a norm for a man in Japan. Skaters are not the exceptions.
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- Jun 3, 2009
The definition of "masculinity" is vague? :disapp:
Not if you want to put skaters in fair positions. But when unisex styles, to say the least, gets preferences from judges, it doesn't look fair at all. The naturally masculine guys should do ... like what? Not to skate at all, knowing that they will lose anyway?
For me Yag with his Oly will be the most featured representative of male sexualized skating. I am sure there were guys before them, like Petrenko with his one of the best 3A ever. I was just too little at their times or didn't exist at all. Plush was still a teen at Yag's reigning time. I disagree with those who say that masculine skating is not supposed to be emotional. Or maybe I misunderstood the phrase. Men are emotional, they just represent it in a different way, off-ice and on-ice too.
As for Japanese skaters, being groomed is a norm for a man in Japan. Skaters are not the exceptions.
1. I'd argue that there are some who would think that Yagudin wasn't masculine, though. I'm quite glad to hear you believe he is and I definitely agree. So yeah, the definition of masculinity is definitely vague, especially when the roles of men in society are changing more rapidly than ever before (the rise of the Apatowesque manchild, for example).
2. I'm not sure I agree that performatively masculine skaters are being placed below "unisex" skaters (and I think this is where I stumble, because I'm not sure what you mean by this).
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- Jul 11, 2003
Plushenko was the only male senior who cultivated a Bielman Spin. Was that a Masculine or Feminine thing to do?
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- Jan 7, 2011
It's considered feminine because flexibility is one of the things women, especially in physical pursuits, have over men. Since it's a trait men don't often win on, it's been regulated to the realm of the feminine and undesirable for men to ever pick up.
Sports biomechanics have been predicting that women will soon overtake men in marathon running. Perhaps one day stamina and endurance will be considered girlish traits, too.
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- Aug 18, 2010
Bielman Spin is definitely a feminine movement. Plushenko is very masculine in many ways. I wouldn't call it a feminine thing to do. He was very secure on his masculinity so that he wouldn't mind to be called of anything because of that. He did it because he could, and no any other man can.
That said, I hate to see any man does that.
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- Mar 14, 2006
Doesn't Shawn Sawyer do it? What about Rohene Ward? Somehow I like it when they do it (IIRC that they do it!) but not when Plushy does, precisely because he is so macho. It's as if he is doing it to show off his equipment whereas with the other guys it seemed like more of a gender-bending-flexy-arty thing. I like Joesitz's question because it made me realize it's not so easy to answer.
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- Jun 3, 2008
What does it mean to show off his equipment?
Bielman looks painflul to me even in ladies when they dont seem to enjoy it, or pretend they do, so no matter if it is men or ladies it is not my fav element. Mao, Alissa are I think the only ones I really like and maybe also this russian little flexible girl. From the current men I like Hanyu´s. From Plushenko era(it has been 7 yeas he doesnt do it) I liked what looked like his bielman spiral, not the spin, and of course the donut spin, nowdays I think Rippon and Ten have a nice donut. I guess it is more ladies feature because of the flexibility it requires, on the other hand men in gymnastics are quite flexible too and I dont think anyone questioned their masculinity or not.
Bielman looks painflul to me even in ladies when they dont seem to enjoy it, or pretend they do, so no matter if it is men or ladies it is not my fav element. Mao, Alissa are I think the only ones I really like and maybe also this russian little flexible girl. From the current men I like Hanyu´s. From Plushenko era(it has been 7 yeas he doesnt do it) I liked what looked like his bielman spiral, not the spin, and of course the donut spin, nowdays I think Rippon and Ten have a nice donut. I guess it is more ladies feature because of the flexibility it requires, on the other hand men in gymnastics are quite flexible too and I dont think anyone questioned their masculinity or not.
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- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
What does it mean to show off his equipment?
Bielman looks painflul to me even in ladies when they dont seem to enjoy it, or pretend they do, so no matter if it is men or ladies it is not my fav element. Mao, Alissa are I think the only ones I really like and maybe also this russian little flexible girl. From the current men I like Hanyu´s. From Plushenko era(it has been 7 yeas he doesnt do it) I liked what looked like his bielman spiral, not the spin, and of course the donut spin, nowdays I think Rippon and Ten have a nice donut. I guess it is more ladies feature because of the flexibility it requires, on the other hand men in gymnastics are quite flexible too and I dont think anyone questioned their masculinity or not.
I agree on three points. First, when some skaters do the Biellmann, it just comes across as painful. It would imagine it was painful to learn as well. I suppose that's why Dick Button dislikes the spin so much.
Second, I also agree with your choices for favorite amateur Biellmann spinners though. I think Mirai has a really good one as well, just as long as so doesn't try any funny positions with it like she's done a few times in the past.
And lastly, I would side on you in that it might be more of a ladies' element then a mens' because of the flexibility it requires. It's not really about "masculinity" for me, but more of how it looks aesthetically. If you're flexible and can spin well/fast, chances are, it's a nice spin.
Like this one:
http://gifsoup.com/MjYwNjYzNw (Alissa)
or
http://gifsoup.com/MjYwNjY0OQ (Mao)
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Seniorita, I'll give you a hint of an answer to your question by saying that we can't answer it onscreen! The good Greek word euphemism is useful here.
I tend to agree with you all. When I see a Biellman spin, I tend to think of a Christmas ornament or a fancy chandelier. I'd rather see a knockout spiral or layback, or an Ina Bauer. (By Shizuka, if I have a choice....) My exceptions are the ones you mentioned, especially Alissa. I just like every possible chance to watch her spin.
I tend to agree with you all. When I see a Biellman spin, I tend to think of a Christmas ornament or a fancy chandelier. I'd rather see a knockout spiral or layback, or an Ina Bauer. (By Shizuka, if I have a choice....) My exceptions are the ones you mentioned, especially Alissa. I just like every possible chance to watch her spin.
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- Jun 3, 2008
Huh...so i think I figured it out right.
Strange use of words btw!
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- Jul 11, 2003
It's a logical thing about Flexibility. Everyone has flexibility and it improves as one uses it. That's what Therapists are all about when someone with the inability to move because of an accident or a stroke. How much flexibility is used in Dance? Cirque du Soleil will show you the answer but it is not limited to Cirque. Stretching muscle and even to the point of contorting the musciles are done as warmups for anykind of athletics as well as performances. Really amazing to watch a ballet dancer on toe to lift her leg up to her ear by pure muscle strength.
In figure skating performances flexibility works, aside from general skating, for camel spins. sitsspins. scratchspins, and of course all the jumps. One can not skate without flexibility. Contoring the body or overextending a position, has become very vogue in figure skating, nowadays, although the actual positions have nothing to do with skating. They are impressive though but those skaters had that ability before they took up skating. Most of the ability comes from the genetic makeup plus some hard work with an Acrobatic coach.
The Ladies (and some Men) whose bodies have short waists and long legs have the advantage. Shall we tell skaters who do not have these natural advantages to not skate? George Ballanchine will teach any young lady to dance but for his company, they must have be short waisted and long legged.
In figure skating performances flexibility works, aside from general skating, for camel spins. sitsspins. scratchspins, and of course all the jumps. One can not skate without flexibility. Contoring the body or overextending a position, has become very vogue in figure skating, nowadays, although the actual positions have nothing to do with skating. They are impressive though but those skaters had that ability before they took up skating. Most of the ability comes from the genetic makeup plus some hard work with an Acrobatic coach.
The Ladies (and some Men) whose bodies have short waists and long legs have the advantage. Shall we tell skaters who do not have these natural advantages to not skate? George Ballanchine will teach any young lady to dance but for his company, they must have be short waisted and long legged.
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- Nov 12, 2009
Alissa Czisny has a long waist and average length legs and is still reallyy flexible so I'm not sure that is always true.
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- Nov 12, 2009
It's difficult to believe you can categorize the sex appeal of Figure Skaters and yet comment on their ability to compete. How much influence does that sex appeal give in scoring?
They all have sex appeal just different types of it, so idk. Adam Rippon is beautiful and so is Brian Joubert, but in very different ways.
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- Jan 15, 2010
And some of those aforementioned "natural advantage" skaters aren't always great in flexibility. I would say Yuna's one of them. She's a got a very pretty layback Ina Bauer and a layback camel spin, but her Biellmann and layback spins leave much to be desired.
I wouldn't tell the ones w/out natural advantages not to skate. I think a skater like Rachael has a great layback spin, considering her past back injury. But I think it would be a great opportunity for them to invent new spins or create new variations of a spin like Michelle did with the layback (which some people hated, I know). We just need more ... pizzazz!
Something like this would be nice, no? And I don't think Lu Chen was very flexible (compared to the ladies of the present) either:
http://www.gifsoup.com/view/671786/worlds96-chen-lu-sp-o.gif (after it loads, it will play in its normal speed)
But um, connecting back to the original topic of the mens' events; I hope Daisuke Takahashi, if he chooses to compete this season, will bring us more creative programs!
And perhaps we'll see more of the Takahiko Kozuka vs. Patrick Chan friendly rivalry?
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