New Ashley Wagner Video.

Blades of Passion · Aug 14, 2011

Spun Silver said:
the music "calls on Ashley to look lost and vulnerable"? Ashley Wagner? Yeah, right.

It may not be her specialty but I think she has the range to convey it well enough for a short period of time. Her face is expressive; simply frowning with a puppy dog kind of look and doing the appropriate choreography would be enough.

Mathman · Aug 14, 2011

^ How about this?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/scarriere/5310995174/

Spun Silver · Aug 14, 2011

The lady's not vulnerable, she's dangerous.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scarriere/5310405995/in/photostream/

(Hey, Stephen is a good photographer. Nice compositions! http://www.flickr.com/photos/scarriere/5310406025/in/photostream/)

Just for the sake of argument, I would say that there's a drama in the music that IMO neither the present choreo nor Blades' suggestions bring out. From the get-go the music has a rhythmic angularity and tension that, although it starts out brightly, builds up and gets darker, esp. after the 2 minute point where the music becomes quite threatening. I could almost see a program about an alert young woman who discerns that she's in danger and turns on her attacker in a way that gives her a chance to show some skating fireworks. There should be some way to make that last minute, with its darker music, different and climactic... not that I know how it should be done, LOL. It needs more colorful touches - I dunno, a stag leap, dramatic arm movements (like the "pushing" one she already has, which works fine, IMO), running steps that look like she's chasing down her enemy...? (Shades of Ryan Bradley... maybe she's a Marine.

)

Layfan · Aug 19, 2011

Re the SP, for once I kind of like Ashley's footwork sequence. Usually I lose interest in her during the final footwork sequences because she's too slow and I'm distracted by her forever dangling, unpointed free foot. Not that she doesn't still have those imperfections but I do think the choreo is peppy and fun and her upper body movements are just sharp and different enough to distract you from the fact that she's not that sharp from the boot down.

I really enjoyed Blades' comments although I'm still trying to picture his alternate choreo. I didn't notice how they didn't use the mournful part of the music until he pointed it out. I think Ashley could interpret it. She is certainly a skater who gets into her music and enjoys it. She's no genius artist but she's always very pleasant and expressive.

Overall I like her SP. It feels fresh and light. I'm sure that's not her final costume but I hope she goes with red. It suits her and the music.

meem · Aug 20, 2011

I'm no choreographer but after watching Ashley's SP once again (just now via the link provided by Blades), I was still bored + irritated (by her traffic cop arms/hand signals). I found myself wishing (again) that she'd invest in a really good choreographer like Lori Nichols, who knows what to do with skaters' arms (perfect example is Michelle Kwan whose arms began flailing the season after she left Nichols IMO).

evangeline · Aug 20, 2011

meem said:
I found myself wishing (again) that she'd invest in a really good choreographer like Lori Nichols, who knows what to do with skaters' arms (perfect example is Michelle Kwan whose arms began flailing the season after she left Nichols IMO).

Not really. Lori Nichol choreographed for Evan Lysacek, whose infamous windmill arms could power enough electricity to power the state of California for about a week or two. I also really didn't like how Rachael Flatt's arms were flailing in her Nichol-choreographed East of Eden SP.

Olympia · Aug 20, 2011

Lysacek and Rachael notwithstanding, I do think there was a difference between Michelle's arms in the Nichol era and the post-Nichol era. For Michelle at least, Lori was a complete choreographer, with precise attention to arm movements and a lot of other little grace-notes throughout the program--a sequence of quick steps that brings out the music but that doesn't garner points, things like that. Michelle was still wonderful after 2001, of course, and so was Lori (Shen/Zhao's 2010 programs, e.g.), but there was an electric coming-together of extraordinary talents when she and Lori collaborated. She was Lori's true muse, I think.

silverpond · Aug 20, 2011

With all due respect to Ashley Wagner, who is obviously a talented and highly trained young athlete, I just have never been particularly impressed with her programs. She lacks the artistry and musical interpretation skills that distinguish good skaters from great skaters. Hopefully, she'll develop these skills so that she can make the US World team and establish herself on the world stage.

My two cents, of course.

R.D. · Aug 20, 2011

^ I think you said something profound in there. Wagner (at her current level) is merely a good skater. That's nice, and she's in good company...but to get to the level she aspires to reach, she needs to be a great skater. If you are familiar with my posts, you will know that I believe that you either "got it" or you don't. Skaters like Kim et al, they've "got it", they're great skaters. Skaters like Wagner, or Flatt, are merely good skaters- they have high performance and decent consistency, but lack that extra oomph to reach "great" status. And more likely than not, they'll never get there because there seem to be elements of greatness that can't be taught by any coach. But if there ARE elements of greatness in a skater, it's up to the coach/choreographer to make the most of it.

Olympia · Aug 20, 2011

I think you're both right, R.D. and Silverpond.

Sometimes a good skater can make it to the top if the stars are aligned. Maybe a great skater has a bad day, or there are no great skaters at that competition, or the good skater has the skate of his/her life. But that skater won't be remembered into the the next generation, so to speak. Not the way Janet Lynn is remembered, or Kurt Browning, or Michelle. I always wish skaters luck and am happy when they do well, but expectations are lower for some than for others.

R.D. · Aug 20, 2011

Olympia said:
Sometimes a good skater can make it to the top if the stars are aligned.

Case(s) in point: Sarah Hughes, Kimmie Meissner.

Neither were "great"- they were merely "good"- but peaked when it counted most, and when the "great" skaters above them fumbled. In the latter case, it also helped that the field was post-Olympic, and thus diluted.

(Note: emphasis on "good" added by me)

Maybe a great skater has a bad day

Case(s) in point: Michelle Kwan at the '02 Olympics; Yuna Kim at the 2010 worlds.

New Ashley Wagner Video.

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

Mathman

Spun Silver

Layfan

meem

evangeline

Olympia

silverpond

R.D.

Olympia

R.D.

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