Lambiel and Cizeron together "On ice perspectives"

[4everchan]

Few years ago I watched a documentary on pioneer young girl skaters in one of the Arabic countries. Somehow they managed to get a coach from some Asian post-Soviet state (iirc Kazakhstan) and installed on a rink in a shopping center of some bigger city. Skated with their legs covered, surprisingly with no hijabs, maybe due to the young age.
The coaches and parents were saying that only way to exist and quietly evolve for them is basically being under the radar and slowly convince more and more people that the sport is not harmful to traditional Islamic society and position of woman within it.
Introducing same-sex pairs dancing would be very controversial and widely publicized reform, met with inevitable backlash from religious/traditional majority of Islamic societies, which is the last thing those young aspiring skaters need.

But again, revolutionaries never cared, never care and will never care about consequences and potential victims of their rapid actions.

I think you are mistaken here. I am certainly not a religious person but I do believe that in those religions where men and women are not supposed to interact, same sex partnership, especially all girls, would be an incentive to start ice dance, while it may be not permitted right now.... Also, it is not mandatory. I am pretty certain that we won't see same gender pairings from some countries and yet they will be common in others... See, in Europe, there are quite a few men doing artistic swimming.. In Canada, it's pretty non-existing. It's not because it is available that people need to do it.

Finally, I don't think that Skate Canada cares about what is happening in the tradiionnal/religious countries (and vice versa) when it comes to young kids skating.. Skate Canada shall focus on their own children's needs.

And you know, it's not the first time two men skate together... it has happened quite often in shows

(and yes, I am aware they are not skating in holds...)

 

[TallyT]

I hope same-sex pairs figure skating will never be introduced as it would negatively impact the popularity of already struggling sport. The last thing ISU needs is to scare off or discourage traditional societies and countries, which make up most of world's population. It would be very risky step, potentially very damaging to the future of present aspiring female skaters from religious/traditional countries for instance.

I thought it was simply on the ground of 'natural aesthetics' you had a purely personal-taste problem with this? No?

On any case, the chances that we will see it in the international elite ranks, even for two girls, in the near future is very very low and there aren't enough boys for the current mixed pairings so you can relax the clutch on those pearls. Canadians are at the minute the only ones trialling this, and they hardly the country to be impressed "but think of the sensibilities of the prejudiced!"

This is all depressingly like the people who like to pronounce - purely objectively of course - on the dire effect male skaters who wear glitter and glamour 'against all convention' has on the popularity of the sport.

 

[BlackAxel]

What a magnificent performance!! I don’t believe I have seen a program that left me so emotionally affected. Bravo to Stephane and Guillaume!! Also, it is great to see a woman of color, Khoudia Touré, choreograph this beautiful program. Diversity is appreciated and very much needed in figure skating.

 

[Magill]

Few years ago I watched a documentary on pioneer young girl skaters in one of the Arabic countries. Somehow they managed to get a coach from some Asian post-Soviet state (iirc Kazakhstan) and installed on a rink in a shopping center of some bigger city. Skated with their legs covered, surprisingly with no hijabs, maybe due to the young age.
The coaches and parents were saying that only way to exist and quietly evolve for them is basically being under the radar and slowly convince more and more people that the sport is not harmful to traditional Islamic society and position of woman within it.
Introducing same-sex pairs dancing would be very controversial and widely publicized reform, met with inevitable backlash from religious/traditional majority of Islamic societies, which is the last thing those young aspiring skaters need.

But again, revolutionaries never cared, never care and will never care about consequences and potential victims of their rapid actions.

As they say an image is worth 1000 words, so have you seen these?

 

[icewhite]

Few years ago I watched a documentary on pioneer young girl skaters in one of the Arabic countries. Somehow they managed to get a coach from some Asian post-Soviet state (iirc Kazakhstan) and installed on a rink in a shopping center of some bigger city. Skated with their legs covered, surprisingly with no hijabs, maybe due to the young age.
The coaches and parents were saying that only way to exist and quietly evolve for them is basically being under the radar and slowly convince more and more people that the sport is not harmful to traditional Islamic society and position of woman within it.
Introducing same-sex pairs dancing would be very controversial and widely publicized reform, met with inevitable backlash from religious/traditional majority of Islamic societies, which is the last thing those young aspiring skaters need.

But again, revolutionaries never cared, never care and will never care about consequences and potential victims of their rapid actions.

Where is that young girl now? Cause I would love to see more skaters from other countries, who actually live there and don't just have the passport, but the truth is that for many reasons figure skating is only a thing in a dozen or so countries and it doesn't look like that will change, on the contrary. Which are the young skaters from Arabic countries that would be hindered by such new rules? I would say they are hindered by a thousand things and also figure skating on ice is likely the last thing on their mind if they aren't from rich families in Abu Dhabi, having seen some figure skaters in a film. Because in most places in Arabic countries there is no fs tradition, not the fitting climate, no coaches, no milieu of peers who do it, no facilities.
The imaginary young rich girl from Abu Dhabi will likely not be discouraged to do singles by possible same sex teams. Will they be discouraged to do ice dance? Likely by the lack of a partner, yes - if they were however to look for a fitting partner they would not only likely find it easier to team up with another girl who wants to do it, but also its (in this imaginary case) traditional family would likely rather see her skate with another girl than have a boy touching her.

And as has been said before, same sex teams in pairs or ice dance doesn't mean they need to have sex with each other... They are a sports team, they can express romance like any other fs team if they want to, but they don't have to. Personally I find siblings displaying romance always a bit disturbing, but well, in the end... it's not only their choice, it's acting.

The Taliban will likely not set up a big figure skating program for girls even if same sex teams are not allowed.

So all in all, these arguments sound totally disingenious.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

I suppose that the report was about the Dubai Ice Rink Skating Academy at the Dubai Mall ice rink? Alas, the next big mall to open will have a ski slope, but no ice rink. I'm afraid an ice rink isn't impressive enough nowadays for a big mall? So this rink is likely to remain alone for some time.

Ice Skating Sessions - Ice Skating Classes - Dubai Ice Rink

Ice Skating Sessions - We offer different types of ice skating sessions that last up to 90 minutes and include snowfall, music, skate rental, socks and locker hire.

www.dubaiicerink.com

Book Ice Skating Classes With Our Coaches - Dubai Ice Rink

Our coaching team offers friendly guidance and expert advice to give you the essential skills needed to become an ice skating professional. Book ice skating classes with our highly experienced coaches.

www.dubaiicerink.com

UAE has been an ISU member since 2013, so at least some skaters from the Emirates may participate in international competitions, but I haven't noticed any:

List of member federations of the International Skating Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There's also a Gymnastics club in Dubai, I don't know if they participate in international competitions. I mention it because there's potentially the same costume problem (even more, in fact, because I haven't heard that they wore a bodysuit; whereas most Figure Skaters wear thick opaque tights).

I do agree with the little I know about Islam, that any man/woman contact is prohibited except between close relatives and between man and wife (this is why the most observant Muslims in France, tend to have the religious marriage before the civil marriage, because in the civil marriage there's the exchange of rings and anyway the newlyweds have to touch each other's hands). Meanwhile, contacts with unrelated people of the same sex are not. This is also why some women won't, or won't be allowed to be treated by a male doctor (but a relation who worked in North African countries, and was a very handsome young man, heard many times "but he's not a man, he's a toubib", so it depended on the places).
And in much earlier times in France, particularly in the stricter regions like Brittany, unmarried boys and girls would dance prohibiting man/woman contact, but like in the videos above, there used to be men dances and women dances; in fact, I believe that same-sex dances could be seen everywhere.

Yet, I don't think that there will be high level competitions any time soon, because ISU and federations are on a crumbling budget, because competitions are already thought lengthy and federations are reluctant to organise them for both Pairs and Ice Dance...
I believe anyway that there should be first, very convincing show/video duos, like this one, to give inspiration to those who, in time, may compete if Figure Skating heals, which I hope, and to give time to set up specific techniques and rules. Forcing federations and unready teams into perfectible formats without technique would not be of service.

 

[Mathman]

The Taliban will likely not set up a big figure skating program for girls even if same sex teams are not allowed

First they need to work on allowing girls to go to school beyond the 6th grade.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

Sorry, I had forgotten the blade question, and even neglected to check last time I watched. Normally Guillaume Cizeron, who's an Ice Dancer, skates with Ice Dance blades, made to facilitate specific Ice Dance moves while preventing harmful toe touches; whereas Stéphane Lambiel, who's a Singles skater, skates with Singles/Pairs blades, with their toes for toe jumps.
I believe that their adjustment has been tricky, having different blades allowing different steps!
There has been a thread here:

Ice Dance Blades vs Singles Blades

I have read that Ice Dancer's blades are one inch shorter than single's blades so they don trip over each other. Can ice dancers do jumps in these skates, or would they need to have another pair of skates. For example, Charlie White used to compete in men's singles as a junior. Did he have...

www.goldenskate.com

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

That’s a really good spot! Maybe you/someone could ask someone in skating/skating media to ask him? So curious!

It's just his personal preference. He treats his legs/feet differently and his need different blades. It's odd in skating and not seen much but whatever works for him.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Sorry, I had forgotten the blade question, and even neglected to check last time I watched. Normally Guillaume Cizeron, who's an Ice Dancer, skates with Ice Dance blades, made to facilitate specific Ice Dance moves while preventing harmful toe touches; whereas Stéphane Lambiel, who's a Singles skater, skates with Singles/Pairs blades, with their toes for toe jumps.
I believe that their adjustment has been tricky, having different blades allowing different steps!
There has been a thread here:

Ice Dance Blades vs Singles Blades

I have read that Ice Dancer's blades are one inch shorter than single's blades so they don trip over each other. Can ice dancers do jumps in these skates, or would they need to have another pair of skates. For example, Charlie White used to compete in men's singles as a junior. Did he have...

www.goldenskate.com

They (Wednesday, if that is the poster you are referring to) were not asking about the difference in dance vs singles blades. They are a skater, they know well what those are. What they were asking was why did Lambiel himself have two different types of blades on (both singles blades iirc).

Also, there are way more differences and uses in dance blades for dance other than "toe touches" as you've called them. They are shaped and sharpened differently, the heel is shorter on dance blades to prevent issues with tripping and locking into your partners blades during pattern etc dances. So many things.

 

[brakes]

I thought it was simply on the ground of 'natural aesthetics' you had a purely personal-taste problem with this? No?

I would never watch same-sex pairs skating for sure, but the negative consequences of introducing them into the sport are far more dangerous than my personal dislike.

 

[reut]

I would never watch same-sex pairs skating for sure, but the negative consequences of introducing them into the sport are far more dangerous than my personal dislike.

Supposedly negative consequences which you were not able to prove.