Nakano's performance at 2008 Worlds

christinaskater · Sep 15, 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeSwUNLqFkE

I thinks she gave the skate of her life and gave a tremendous performance, worthy of a medal, more so the gold medal. It would have been more acceptable had she gotten the silver medal rather than 4th place.

russell30 · Sep 15, 2011

Just simply, she was downgraded on some of her jumps and in particular the triple axel, it seems to everyone she had a clean skate, but she was more than the quarter of a turn - and so was downgraded, the judges also don't like the leg wrap on some of the jumps and the GOE is not that great on leg wrap.

I agree that her PCS should have been much higher though, but Asada, Kostner and Kim were marginally better technically.

kwanatic · Sep 15, 2011

She had the performance of the night and, IMO, should have won silver that night. It's one of those instances where technicalities lose the medal because from a performance standpoint, she beat out everyone. But when you look at the DGs/URs it takes her out of the running.

Those are the kind of competitions I hate--where clearly Skater A had the better performance of the night but Skater B comes out on top b/c of Skater A's non-visible errors. I remember hearing the fans boo when Yukari's scores came up...I was livid. I thought she was robbed. Those kind of competitions confuse and upset fans and viewers b/c without looking at the protocol, you have no idea why Yukari failed to medal...I know I was pissed.

Same thing happened with Mirai and Rachael at the 2010 nationals. Mirai had the most electrifying performance of the night, yet Rachael won b/c a few of Mirai's jumps were downgraded and b/c the judges gave Rachael an insurmountable boost so that she was guaranteed one of those top spots... :eek:

hwell:

SerpentineSteps · Sep 15, 2011

kwanatic said:
She had the performance of the night and, IMO, should have won silver that night. It's one of those instances where technicalities lose the medal because from a performance standpoint, she beat out everyone. But when you look at the DGs/URs it takes her out of the running.

Those are the kind of competitions I hate--where clearly Skater A had the better performance of the night but Skater B comes out on top b/c of Skater A's non-visible errors. I remember hearing the fans boo when Yukari's scores came up...I was livid. I thought she was robbed. Those kind of competitions confuse and upset fans and viewers b/c without looking at the protocol, you have no idea why Yukari failed to medal...I know I was pissed.

Same thing happened with Mirai and Rachael at the 2010 nationals. Mirai had the most electrifying performance of the night, yet Rachael won b/c a few of Mirai's jumps were downgraded and b/c the judges gave Rachael an insurmountable boost so that she was guaranteed one of those top spots...hwell:

I completely agree with everything you say.

I don't have the time to be doing the math right now (at work), but I wonder how the results would have been different if the distinction between under-rotations (<) and outright downgrades (<<) existed back then (recall that, until recently, any form of under-rotation beyond the 90 degree window was downgraded).

mskater93 · Sep 15, 2011

She would have ended up on the podium for sure with < instead of <<

PolymerBob · Sep 15, 2011

I saw her skate live on an Internet TV station. I would not have been upset if Queen Yu-Na had been bumped off the podium that night.

kwanatic · Sep 15, 2011

PolymerBob said:
I saw her skate live on an Internet TV station. I would not have been upset if Queen Yu-Na had been bumped off the podium that night.

No, who should have been bumped off was Carolina. IMO Mao earned that gold and Yu-Na earned that bronze...Carolina did not earn nor did she deserve silver. After the FS, Carolina should have been 3rd with Yu-Na in 2nd. That would have left space to place Yukari into 2nd, bumping Yu-Na down to 3rd. I remember Carolina was sloppy that night, had several visible errors and yet still scored high. But that's always the case with Carolina. She always makes mistakes (URs, step outs, even falls) and still will score high...I call it her SWI bonus (Skating While Italian). I've learned to stop trying to figure out where the hell the judges get her scores from...there's just no point. :sheesh:

christinaskater · Sep 15, 2011

kwanatic said:
No, who should have been bumped off was Carolina. IMO Mao earned that gold and Yu-Na earned that bronze...Carolina did not earn nor did she deserve silver. After the FS, Carolina should have been 3rd with Yu-Na in 2nd. That would have left space to place Yukari into 2nd, bumping Yu-Na down to 3rd. I remember Carolina was sloppy that night, had several visible errors and yet still scored high. But that's always the case with Carolina. She always makes mistakes (URs, step outs, even falls) and still will score high...I call it her SWI bonus (Skating While Italian). I've learned to stop trying to figure out where the hell the judges get her scores from...there's just no point. :sheesh:

As much as I love Carolina now, I think she deserved 4th place for the free skate. I think after her triple-triple-double combination everything went down hill. A lot of stepped out jumps, one fall and lacked the overall stability. The sad thing is she almost won with that performance which is unthinkable. It's good that Mao stepped it up and recovered. Yu-Na deserved the silver and Yukari the bronze.

The leg wrap I guess cost her a lot of points with the negative GOE's. But the spins were fabulous, all the jumps were secure, the musical connection- could have been better, but overall a medal winning performance in my opinion.

mskater93 · Sep 16, 2011

It was the underrotation calls, not the negative GOEs that cost her.

treeloving · Sep 17, 2011

Sorry to be a bit out of topic, but....
Could someone please explain to me why exactly does leg-wrap consider to be bad technichque?

sometime I feel like leg wrap slow the flow of the jump when landing (at least in Yugari case), but is that all? How does leg wrap actually effect jump?

I wonder abput this because Midori Ito had leg wrap too, but she was still an amazing jumpers (anyway, she is Midori Ito).

Trewyn · Sep 18, 2011

kwanatic said:
Those are the kind of competitions I hate--where clearly Skater A had the better performance of the night but Skater B comes out on top b/c of Skater A's non-visible errors. I remember hearing the fans boo when Yukari's scores came up...I was livid. I thought she was robbed. Those kind of competitions confuse and upset fans and viewers b/c without looking at the protocol, you have no idea why Yukari failed to medal...I know I was pissed.
[/SIZE]hwell:

Exactly! I remember having a very hard time to understand why Nakano was off the podium that night. First Worlds I ever watched 'live' (on tv). Was a weird night; the American ladies failing to deliver, Mao Asada's weird fall on her triple axel take-off, Carolina's sloppy performance getting second and then Yukari Nakano, of whom the British commentators thought had won the title, kept off the podium altogether...
Yes the triple axel was underrotated, but her other jumps looked fine, even with the leg-wrap.

cooper · Sep 18, 2011

PolymerBob said:
I saw her skate live on an Internet TV station. I would not have been upset if Queen Yu-Na had been bumped off the podium that night.

hoorraaay for Internet TV.. :laugh:

actually yuna did earn her podium placement.. but i agree that nakano should have won at least a silver.

Olympia · Sep 18, 2011

treeloving said:
Sorry to be a bit out of topic, but....
Could someone please explain to me why exactly does leg-wrap consider to be bad technichque?

sometime I feel like leg wrap slow the flow of the jump when landing (at least in Yugari case), but is that all? How does leg wrap actually effect jump?

I wonder abput this because Midori Ito had leg wrap too, but she was still an amazing jumpers (anyway, she is Midori Ito).

I think about this a lot, because the leg wrap was the only thing that kept me from thoroughly enjoying Yukari's skating. I don't know how the leg wrap affected her jump in terms of effectiveness, but it was sure scary to watch. I was always sure she'd tangle herself up in midair and drop right down on the ice. Midori had a bit of a wrap, but never as pronounced as Yukari's. The only other leg wrap I remember that was as severe as Nakano's was Claudia Kristofics-Binder of Germany (West Germany I think it was then). She won a world bronze at least once, but she wasn't as memorable a skater as Yukari by any means.

I don't follow the actual scorings as closely as I should, so I'm never sure how much Yukari was penalized for it, if at all. I'm sorry she never had the chance to take home a world medal, though.

prettykeys · Sep 18, 2011

PolymerBob said:
I saw her skate live on an Internet TV station. I would not have been upset if Queen Yu-Na had been bumped off the podium that night.

Which alternate universe would put Yukari on that podium, bump YuNa off, and keep Carolina on? The same one where YuNa fattens herself up with sweets? :biggrin:

mskater93 · Sep 19, 2011

treeloving said:
Sorry to be a bit out of topic, but....
Could someone please explain to me why exactly does leg-wrap consider to be bad technichque?

sometime I feel like leg wrap slow the flow of the jump when landing (at least in Yugari case), but is that all? How does leg wrap actually effect jump?

I wonder abput this because Midori Ito had leg wrap too, but she was still an amazing jumpers (anyway, she is Midori Ito).

The leg wrap doesn't allow the skater to get full height on their jump and slows the rotation down which makes those jumps prone to under-rotation. A leg wrap goes more knee to knee with the lower part of the free leg "hanging" out.

Midori Ito did NOT really have a leg wrap. Someone here called it a demi-wrap. She more never finished the free leg motion down into the ankle-ankle position (if you watch most jumps on the upward arc just after take off, you'll see a similar position to Midori's consistent in air position with the free leg "up" more and ankle at about knee level). Midori didn't need the tight ankle-ankle cross position to complete her rotations. There's a thread further down about this...

treeloving · Sep 19, 2011

Olympia said:
I think about this a lot, because the leg wrap was the only thing that kept me from thoroughly enjoying Yukari's skating. I don't know how the leg wrap affected her jump in terms of effectiveness, but it was sure scary to watch. I was always sure she'd tangle herself up in midair and drop right down on the ice. Midori had a bit of a wrap, but never as pronounced as Yukari's. The only other leg wrap I remember that was as severe as Nakano's was Claudia Kristofics-Binder of Germany (West Germany I think it was then). She won a world bronze at least once, but she wasn't as memorable a skater as Yukari by any means.

I don't follow the actual scorings as closely as I should, so I'm never sure how much Yukari was penalized for it, if at all. I'm sorry she never had the chance to take home a world medal, though.

I have the same feeling as you when I watched Yukari jump especially in slow-motion, I feel like her knee will break down. But for Midori when I watch her for the first time that I don't know much about figure skating, I like her wrap very much, at that time I feel that the it make her jump look more special, but since when I has been informed that the wrap is bad technique, I don't feel it is special anymore. :laugh:

(it show that I'm so easy to be influenced! :laugh:

)

mskater93 said:
The leg wrap doesn't allow the skater to get full height on their jump and slows the rotation down which makes those jumps prone to under-rotation. A leg wrap goes more knee to knee with the lower part of the free leg "hanging" out.

Midori Ito did NOT really have a leg wrap. Someone here called it a demi-wrap. She more never finished the free leg motion down into the ankle-ankle position (if you watch most jumps on the upward arc just after take off, you'll see a similar position to Midori's consistent in air position with the free leg "up" more and ankle at about knee level). Midori didn't need the tight ankle-ankle cross position to complete her rotations. There's a thread further down about this...

Thank you so much for the answer, I just watched midori and yukari's jump in slow motion and see what you mean.

Nakano's performance at 2008 Worlds

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