Isn't that close to my proposal: Skating Skills × Presentation (although the multiplying part needs further debate; Even I myself is not totally convinced with the multiplicationThe longer this discuss =ion goes on the more strongly I am pulled toward having two equally weight program components, skating skills and performance. The teo together mean "sking well...to music." (We could call them the first mark and the second mark.)
)?
hwell: ) ).gkelly said:
I was talking about Presentation (PE + CH + IN). You mixed the SS and TR data in and came up with a different result, which has nothing to do with what I was talking about, and which like the design of CoP is capable of confusing the casual viewers. My conclusion had a scope (i.e., PE + CH + IN) and context (i.e, median as an estimate of majority opinions). You took it beyond its scope and out of context.
Interestingly, by using your "logic" of rearranging the data and combining "votes" across categories, I combined the data in all three categories and found Joubert actually had a higher mean (8.37) than Hanyu's (8.36) and, of course, a higher median (8.50) than Hanyu's (8.25). Both measures of central tendency supported my hypothesis that Joubert won the majority vote
. Seriously, we cannot simply rearrange the data into pairs that did not come from the same judge and then compare who beat whom. Since the ISU hides the judges and scrambles the order of scores, the best we can estimate the majority ranking/vote is through the use of median.Indeed, from your data I see the pattern: Besides a small number of incidents where the difference between SS and IN scores is greater than the minimal increment, the scores in these two categories were almost identical (i.e., no greater than the minimal gradation). This is the pattern (Correlation coefficient between SS and IN):
I largely agreed. I expect the discrepancy between judges' scores to be smaller in a more objective category (e.g., no greater than 1.0 in Skating Skills) and slightly greater in a more subjective category (e.g., no greater than 1.5 in Interpretation). Anything greater than 1.5 is likely a rogue score. And my instinct told me that a normal standard deviation among judges' scores in IN is probably somewhere between 0.35 to 0.65, such as Chan's first showing last season (i.e., Skate Canada) = 0.42, Chan's first almost-clean skate (i.e., 4CC) = 0.46, Yuzuru's first showing (i.e., Cup of China) = 0.40, Yuzuru's first almost-clean skate (Worlds) = 0.61, an unfamiliar face at Worlds (e.g., Harry Hau Yin LEE) = 0.59, and another unfamiliar face at Worlds (e.g., Taras RAJEC) = 0.45.
As I stated in Post #229, I expect the normal standard deviation for a subjective category to be somewhere between 0.35 to 0.65. Of course, I will happily accept such subjectivity because that is the way it should be. I'm happy that Yuzuru's PE scores at Worlds showed a great variance among judges (standard deviation = 0.51). It made so much sense to me: Some judges liked his musicality very much while the others disliked his postures. The scores looked REAL. And don't forget we use the mean (or maybe median one day, like the International Tchaikovsky Competition http://www.tchaikovsky-competition.c.../voting_system) to find the middle point of the judges opinions. If you ask me whether I would take the subjective opinions of nine people who observe an elephant (i.e., the "true" or "right" score of a skater) from various perspectives, or I would take the objective opinions of nine people who measures the elephant's ear (i.e., skating skills) and the ear only with a ruler, I would say the former approach is a better way of finding out the whole elephant.But there might be a little concern here. Greater discrepancy on the more subjective categories would mean that sometimes in some cases the placement of the skaters could be decided by these subjective categories. Will you say "Be it. I'll accept it"?
Sorry, I meant PE (standard deviation = 0.51) and I will edit my Post #232 accordingly. Hanyu's emotional involvement in the music was excellent (very convincing, honest), but his carriage was, eh, still much to be desired.
Come on. My outrage concerns the lack of variance in his scores. It doesn't look real. And it doesn't make sense.But if you did as you said you will, there won't be 16 pages in this thread which were largely generated by your outrage on Patrick Chan.
In ascending order, the SS scores should’ve been:
With the correct data substituted, I matched up the judges in the same way as you did:
Hanyu. 8.50--7.50--7.75--8.00--8.25--9.00--8.50--8.75--9.00 - 8.39
The audience. A.k.a a paying customer. And he expressed his opinion in Nice.
That is exactly why popularity of FS is declining rapidly- a paying customer is told his opinion is not right after all. So he goes to watch something else.
