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Thread: Copyright issues with skating music?

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    Leo Di Caprio Voiceovers andromache's Avatar
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    Copyright issues with skating music?

    Probably been asked before but:

    How do skaters go about getting legal permission to skate to music that isn't in the public domain? Must the artist give their personal permission, or is it usually more of a corporate-based sort of thing where the skater simply goes through someone at the record company?

    (Specifically asking in reference to the discussion in the "Programs" thread we are having about Jeremy Abbot skating to Kanye West's Black Skinhead.)

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    Missing Tdizzle and SDiggity ice coverage's Avatar
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    Last edited by ice coverage; 06-21-2015 at 12:14 PM.

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    It is my understanding that in general the permission from the artist is not necessary unless an artist explicitly forbids licencing of his/her music in general (like Prince or Led Zeppelin for example). A song is assumed available for use unless stated otherwise. I imagine skaters pay some standard fee for the right to use a copyrighted song.

    I do wonder what role does the fact that figure skating competitions are broadcast on TV play in all this. As far as I know the licensing of copyrighted music for television is strictly regulated and quite complicated and depends on a country.
    Last edited by Moria Polonius; 06-21-2015 at 12:19 PM.

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    Bona Fide Member cheerknithanson's Avatar
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    I want to say something, but I'm afraid I'm going to get shutdown for it.

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    I believe there is some kind of arrangement where it goes through the federation.

    When entering a competition, a skater (at any level where they have an independent program and the music is not provided for them) must fill in a music form, with details such as composer/artist, the name of the song, how long the cut of that song is (so for example, say I was using two songs cut together, I would write that Song 1 is 20sec, and Song 2 is 1:30, or something).

    This then covers the skater under the licencing arrangements with the federations. I am not certain of the nitty gritty, but as I understand it, even at the top level, the skater themselves does not pay.

    I imagine for a situation like Jeremy's, the licencing arrangement is with the promoter of the show, and not Jeremy himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    I believe there is some kind of arrangement where it goes through the federation.

    When entering a competition, a skater (at any level where they have an independent program and the music is not provided for them) must fill in a music form, with details such as composer/artist, the name of the song, how long the cut of that song is (so for example, say I was using two songs cut together, I would write that Song 1 is 20sec, and Song 2 is 1:30, or something).

    This then covers the skater under the licencing arrangements with the federations. I am not certain of the nitty gritty, but as I understand it, even at the top level, the skater themselves does not pay.

    I imagine for a situation like Jeremy's, the licencing arrangement is with the promoter of the show, and not Jeremy himself.
    I guess it makes sense for everything to run through a larger body like federations or promoters, given the complexities of TV and other viewing services like IceNetwork for some competitions. It's nice that the skaters can have creative freedom without worrying about paying.

    Quote Originally Posted by cheerknithanson View Post
    I want to say something, but I'm afraid I'm going to get shutdown for it.
    I'm not even sure what this means.

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    Yes, that piqued my interest as well -- inquiring minds want to know.

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    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...usic+copyright

    We have had a number of discussions on skating music and copyright before, like the one above. Unfortunately, I could not find the particular thread I wanted to refer to among the 378 threads with "music" in the title.

    My memory is foggy these days, but I believe it is the venue or the federation or the broadcaster that has an arrangement with the companies that handle music distribution. for the artists. Approval does not have to be sought from the artist directly.

    For most artists, the companies handle the business.

    We ran into this when my nephew wanted a DJ at his wedding and the restaurant couldn't let him have a DJ, even if the DJ played albums my nephew personally owned, because the restauranteur refused to pay some monthly fee to some music distrubiton company. It was even doubtful whether he could have someone play their own original music live.

    I believe someone who had a skating child finally answered the question definitively.

    But in any case, Jeremy Abbott doesn't have to ask the rapper whether he can use his music.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 06-21-2015 at 11:22 PM.

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    Bona Fide Member cheerknithanson's Avatar
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    I guess it makes sense for everything to run through a larger body like federations or promoters, given the complexities of TV and other viewing services like IceNetwork for some competitions. It's nice that the skaters can have creative freedom without worrying about paying.

    I mean like I feel like artists need to take a deep breath and know that they're being respected and appreciated when skaters use their music to skate to for programs. Because to realize, out of all the songs, they picked that song...

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    I don't think it's a matter of an artist taking a deep breath. They "own" the music and don't want anybody else making money off that music. Hence the DJ story and the restaurant not wanting to pay a fee. I work in a winery and we have live music occasionally. The bands have to "clear" the music before they can play it. Some artists are tighter than others about their music.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cheerknithanson View Post
    I mean like I feel like artists need to take a deep breath and know that they're being respected and appreciated when skaters use their music to skate to for programs. Because to realize, out of all the songs, they picked that song...
    Has an artist ever blocked a skater from using the artist's music for a program? I have never heard of such a thing.

    Copyright enforcement on YouTube videos -- including, but by no means limited to, skating videos -- is another issue entirely.
    And my opinion is that artists are entitled to copyrighting and to royalties.
    Financial compensation is one of the incentives for any artist to continue creating music.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    My memory is foggy these days, but I believe it is the venue or the federation or the broadcaster that has an arrangement with the companies that handle music distribution. for the artists. Approval does not have to be sought from the artist directly.
    I remember reading about this on GS before, and if I remember correctly someone said that it was somehow up to the organizers or broadcasters to get clearance for the music, but the skaters had nothing to do with it. But that it could theoretically happen that the organizer/broadcaster wouldn't be able to get the clearance, and then a skater could arrive at a competition and be told that he/she couldn't participate because they weren't allowed to play the music sounded delightful

    Quote Originally Posted by cheerknithanson View Post
    I mean like I feel like artists need to take a deep breath and know that they're being respected and appreciated when skaters use their music to skate to for programs. Because to realize, out of all the songs, they picked that song...
    And as soon as respect and appreciation start paying bills, a lot of breathing problems amongst artists should be solved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Pamina~ View Post
    ... And as soon as respect and appreciation start paying bills, a lot of breathing problems amongst artists should be solved.
    Well said, Pamina.

    Another thing regarding royalties is that legitimate compensation for "invisible" professionals, such as back-up musicians, also is at stake. Not just for the headliner(s).
    Last edited by ice coverage; 06-22-2015 at 08:13 AM.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I know of only one case where an artist pulled the plug on some skaters.

    Dominina & Shabalin pulled the music of a British performance artist off YouTube to use for part of their infamous aborigine OD in 2010. The artist was appalled to hear her music on a video of DomShabs' program. She was not upset about the money issue. She thought the program insulted people like her Tamil ancestors. She issued a public statement about it.

    DomShabs and Linichuk had to scramble between Euros and Olympics to redo that section of the music.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I know of only one case where an artist pulled the plug on some skaters.

    Dominina & Shabalin pulled the music of a British performance artist off YouTube to use for part of their infamous aborigine OD in 2010. The artist was appalled to hear her music on a video of DomShabs' program. She was not upset about the money issue. She thought the program insulted people like her Tamil ancestors. She issued a public statement about it.

    DomShabs and Linichuk had to scramble between Euros and Olympics to redo that section of the music.
    Thanks, Doris .

    Come to think of it, I have a feeling that I had read about this case (thanks to you) in some post-2010 discussion on GS when the topic happened to come up. But I had forgotten .

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