least favorite winning performances

Just my random thoughts -

2002 - Meditation - B/S. I love watching Elena and Anton. I have three different performances of Meditation on tape, and have watched them time and time again to try to get SOMETHING out of it. I would sit, and stare at the screen, in disbelief. I felt like I was watching two beautiful people, skate a beautiful program, and felt nothing. I didnt get it. I still dont. Love Story, even though it debuted in 1999 was more "alive" for me that night. I felt as if Mediation was SKATED, and Love Story was PERFORMED.

I know it was a bronze, not a gold-winner, but Fusar-Poli/Margaglio Olympic FP 2002. I thought it was one of the worst I've ever seen. It was skated really sloppy, the music was badly edited, and just plain painful to watch. I wonder who they paid for those marks. I didn't like Anissina/Peizerat that year either, which was the first time that I didn't like their skating. They are one of my favorite teams.

I agree with Kat Witt in 88, too much mugging and drama, and not enough skating. I think she must have given the judges nudie pictures in exchange for her scores.

Also Tara 98 for all the reasons previously stated. Also Oksana in 94 for her juvenile little program and all the histrionics in the kiss and kry.

Since I'm on a roll, I preferred Mishkuteniok/Dmitriev over G/G, as well as Torville/Dean over Gritsuk/Platov in 94.

I am one of those who did not find L&A's program offensive. I think they (or at least Ilya) skated it with much feeling and pain of the tragedy. From what they have said, they thought it was unthinkable to skate an upbeat program at SLC only months after 9/11.

Off subject, TVUDragon, have you seen Third of May in Prado? I never liked that painting, and was always bewildered by why it made it into every Art History book, but seeing it in person turned out to be very different than looking at reproductions.

Ptichka said:

Off subject, TVUDragon, have you seen Third of May in Prado? I never liked that painting, and was always bewildered by why it made it into every Art History book, but seeing it in person turned out to be very different than looking at reproductions.

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No, i've never been to Europe . I've only seen works in Textbooks. I guess I can see where paintings have different impressions when it's infront of you, because of the texture. Bleh, maybe my opinion of Goya will change if I ever see his works in person, but his style, it just seems so sloppy!

TV

5. Berezhnaya & Sikhuralidze SLC FP. I know people will hate me for this, but it just seemed like the same staid programme the Russians always do at the Olympics. It didn't have the same fire and relation to each other as S&P

6. S&P's Tristan und Isolde. They deserved to win a World title, but not with that, even though it was the best I saw that performance get, but come on...against B&S's Chaplin?

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ITA... I wasn't going to post because normally I'm the only one who says that LOL

B/S were the better entertainers in 01 Worlds... S/P, while they had passion, had mistakes...

fast forward to SLC... Jamie and David skated with everything they had and were clean... Anton had a slight bobble... both times the results could have gone either way

the only real tradgedy is the fight that still stands today against their fans bickering back and forth

it's to the point that I don't go on any message board strictly for either team... I just can't stand the fighting as I'm a fan of both LOL

So am I, Toni, so am I...

The BBC recently did a mini-sieries call "the private life of a masterpiece" where each show focused on a famous painting and went into it's history, etc... Goya's 3rd of May was one of them and it was really intersting to get all of the background scoop. You should download it if you get the chance.

Dear TV, Your last post raises a number of questions.

The first is that just because L&A said it was a tribute, it was a tribute. If performers, or even choreographers, were the last and final word on programs or performances, there would of course
be no jobs for dance critics, book reviewers, and English professors. There would not be one million out of work comedians telling sad little stories which they think are wildly humorous and witty jokes.

All we can conclude from the fact that L&A said it was a tribute, was that they intended it to be a tribute, not that it was one. I have read interviews they have given, and I believe they are nice people, and if that is what they said they meant it to be, I believe them. Unfortunately, it wasn't a tribute, and they were mistaken.

The second question that your post raises is, by inference, "What is a tribute?" The on line dictionary, www.dictionary.com defines it this way: "A gift, payment, declaration, or other cknowledgment of gratitude, respect, or admiration." When you are planning to show respect for someone, the first thing to consider is what your prospective honoree, or their close friends and family, would consider respectful and pleasing. The process of honoring the victims of the WTC is then more complex than most tasks, because there were not only about 3000 dead, and their extended families, and the injured and their families, but over 20,000 people who fled the financial district running while paper reports, building debris, and people jumping off the buildings rained down around them. You need also to consider all the traumatized people, especially the children, who were assaulted on TV by these images of fire, mayhem, fleeing people, falling people and dying people. No one in the media claimed that these images were either art, or tribute, only that they were news.

It is clear that repetition of these images three years later is still considered disrespectful by some of the families who lost members in the WTC attack, because they called a news conference recently to rebuke President Bush for including footage of the WTC in flames in a political advertisement for his
reelection.

You may never have lost a friend or family member to a violent crime. If you haven't, you will need to use your imagination. Picture a family member in total terror for their lives. Picture them running every which way to escape death. Picture them in pain, with their clothes shredded. Picture them with their muscles pulled and knotted, running out of breath, the pain in their legs increasing, until finally they cannot run fast enough and death seizes them. Now picture yourself forced to watch this on TV again, and again, for months, and yet again through the wonder of 24 hour endless news. Even if you try to avoid the news channels, you can't do it-someone will be surfing past them, and there the images of people like your loved ones, suffering what you know your loved ones suffered, will be there again.

Now consider, is it respect and honor to make these suffering people go through the experience of reliving their loved ones' deaths one more time? And consider the victims themselves. Is that how they want to be remembered by their loved ones? Do they want their life to be only about their death and nothing more?

It is possible to do a tribute that includes portrayal of a death, if the death happened in an act of heroism. If L&A dressed up as a fireman and a woman, and the subtext is that the fireman is
leading the woman to safety, but they both die, that might be a tribute although a controversial one. Mel Gibson's controversial Passion of the Christ comes to mind in this context.

But that isn't what they L&A to portray. They chose to portray ordinary citizens at the moment of their deaths, running away from a horror. There is no redeeming feature of a heroic subtext. No one of the victims would want to be remembered that way.

And so the program is not a tribute.

Your last two points relate to Goya, and art. This post has gotten long enough and I will try to respond to Goya and art later.

Okay, I know understand why you would be offended by L&A's 02 FD.

I guess I was thinking more in terms of art and how artists usually depict the tragedy itself in order to honor the memory.
I would love to see your thoughts on Goya and artists portraying tragedy in general as honoring memories and victims.

TV

I just don't get L&A's program--I was only offended in an artistic sense. Their opening position was so absurd that when the announcer said the performance was "dedicated to world peace" my boyfriend who wasn't paying attention asked,"Piece of what?" I really haven't been able to take it or them seriously since.

A&P's "I Have a Dream" was almost as stupid. If they hadn't been French and Russian I would find it hard to forgive them.
It was almost as weird as painting Jessye Norman silver, dressing her up as Liberty and and having her ride on float singing "La Marsallaise".

I hope my post isn't too offensive but both of these programs annoyed me enormously.

Flora MacDonald said:

A&P's "I Have a Dream" was almost as stupid. If they hadn't been French and Russian I would find it hard to forgive them.

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Just a question - what's being French and Russian got to do with anything?

icenut84 said:

Just a question - what's being French and Russian got to do with anything?

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If an American team had tried that program I would have considered it pandering to patriotism and too emotionally manipulative to believe.
From non-Americans it a "tribute", but a bizarre one.

I'd have to say Irina's win in 2002 worlds, that was really kinda boring.

Shiskova & Naumov - 1994 Worlds
Okay, I never particularly liked this pair. They were unoriginal and bland to me. This is one of my least favorite title winning performances that I can recall.

Petrenko - 1992 Olympics
Whoever said it before was absolutely correct, this was Viktor's gift for having been a Worlds runner-up for 2 consecutive years. This program had little to no choreography and was all jump set up...and he made so many mistakes on the jumps! He also ran out of gas about 2/3 of the way through. Paul should have won. But, an Olympic Silver was still an incredible accomplishment for him.

Irina Slutskaya - 2002 GPF
Irina's "Don Quixote" was lackluster and unsteady in Hamilton. I think she hit four triple jumps and had several tenative/shaky landings. She also didn't have the speed and pep she usually does. A big disappointment compared to what she had done at the 2001 Goodwill Games 3 months earlier...she had skated brilliantly in Brisbane. I would have placed Michelle and Sarah above Irina.

Michelle Kwan - 2000 U.S. Nationals
I loved the program, but for Michelle I think this is one of her weakest winning performances. She was slow and fell on the 3 loop and had a shaky 3 toe landing. She deserved the win, but it was a messy contest and not a shining moment for Michelle. I'm so glad she came roaring back at Worlds and made "The Red Violin" a classic (for me, anyway).

BronzeisGolden said:

Irina Slutskaya - 2002 GPF
Irina's "Don Quixote" was lackluster and unsteady in Hamilton. I think she hit four triple jumps and had several tenative/shaky landings. She also didn't have the speed and pep she usually does. A big disappointment compared to what she had done at the 2001 Goodwill Games 3 months earlier...she had skated brilliantly in Brisbane. I would have placed Michelle and Sarah above Irina.

Michelle Kwan - 2000 U.S. Nationals
I loved the program, but for Michelle I think this is one of her weakest winning performances. She was slow and fell on the 3 loop and had a shaky 3 toe landing. She deserved the win, but it was a messy contest and not a shining moment for Michelle. I'm so glad she came roaring back at Worlds and made "The Red Violin" a classic (for me, anyway).

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ITA! I just have to point out that Sarah and Michelle both skated much better than Irina at GPF '02. Irina was either judged in 1st or 3rd place. No seconds. I think that says alot.

Michelle Kwan Nat's '00. I agree that she won fair and square. It wasn't a pretty victory, but she won. Many are forgetting that it was a 5/4 split for the Silver Medal between SARAH and Sasha. IMO, Sarah should've won silver that year.

Flora MacDonald said:

I just don't get L&A's program--I was only offended in an artistic sense.

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Could you please elaborate a little? I really don't see how you are offended in an artistic sense. Artists throughout history have portrayed tragedy to honor the memory of victims. My Goya example is one. For another, look at Turner's Slave Ship. He was portraying the atrocity of a slave ship operator throwing hundreds of slaves enroute to the Americas off the ship during a storm, so he could collect the insurence. You can see the violent waves of the water, with legs and hands tied to shackles, struggling to escape the water.
If you are offended though in the sense like DORISPULASKI took the time to explain to me, then I would understand (thanks again for that. lol, I'm not clueless on that anymore ), but in an artistic sense?

Flora MacDonald said:

If an American team had tried that program I would have considered it pandering to patriotism and too emotionally manipulative to believe.
From non-Americans it a "tribute", but a bizarre one.

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What? Why should such a themed program be better if it were done by an American team? It's not as if the ideas of Freedom and Liberty are only ideas of the US . I find it strange that so many are offended by A&P's Liberta, but the relatives of Martin Luther King Jr said they felt touched that they decided to include his speech in a program about Liberty. I also doubt MLK Jr wanted his message to stay American.

TV

Now I'm confused. Didn't Flora Mac just say it would have been worse if performed by Americans? (Or at least, harder to forgive?)

About "tributes" to victims, I definitely have mixed feelings about that. To give tributes to heros, that's one thing. But for people who are just going along minding their own business and are suddenly and brutally swept up in tragedy, like the drowning slaves -- what is there to say "horray for you" about?

Art of course is another matter. Art might expand our minds, it might stir our emotions (anger and hatred for the perpetrators of vile crimes against humanity, for instance) -- it might even simply depict reality or human nature in a particularly poignant way. But I don't think I would say that such art "honors" anyone, like in the sense of: "Three cheers for the African slaves! They were in the wrong place at the wrong time! We will never forget their heroic sacrifice!"

Mathman

Mathman said:

Now I'm confused. Didn't Flora Mac just say it would have been worse if performed by Americans? (Or at least, harder to forgive?)

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Ohh, you're right.

I'm sorry Flora MacDonald, I misread your post. Ignore that second part of my post.

TV

thvudragon, I just thought both programs were silly. Pompous, pretentious or the over-used over the top might describe them better.
Ice dancing is a dodgy medium for high art. Maybe I do lack an appreciation for such things but I find the awkward body positions frequently seen in ice dancing particularly inappropriate for deadly serious messages. I wasn't really offended by the "messages" as much as I was amused at the idea of attempting to protray such messages via ice dancing.
"I'm going to put my hand up your skirt now, remember its for world peace!"
So perhaps I'm a Philistine.
Artistically I felt both programs were , let's say unsuccessful.
Turner's "Slave Ship" was a successful painting.
As far as "I Have a Dream" being done by American ice dancers, I was just imagining it would be far tackier and more literal. I can just see the sequined flag outfits.