Sotnikova's win: what does it mean to young skaters aiming for the next Olympics?

verysmuchso · Feb 24, 2014

gmyers said:
If you work hard you can beat anyone! No one is unbeatable. Do the hardest jumps and skate with passion and you can be Olympic champion! You don't have to win worlds or anything! There is no ranking! COP is open!

COP just opened for Putin. It used to be pretty hard to crack. The two young Korean skaters (that Yuna refers to as her "Korean little skaters" who came along to Sochi) seemed totally devastated watching the scoreboard as the gueen was getting slain. I don't think the message was positive for them. They will probably turn to short track or some measured sports. Who knows?

Anna K. · Feb 24, 2014

gmyers said:
Lots skaters will have contact with judges from their home nations! Like Hanyu did after his win!

Ture, and this is wrong. There's only one way how to tackle corruption: to prevent interest conflicts and the very situations when corruption is possible. The attitude of skating officials is simply not serious.

Don't tell me "maybe they're honest". Do you know what Alla Shekhovtsova should say was she honest? She'd say: "Sorry, I can't take this job. This sport has already been marred by corruption. I've been related to the boss of our skating federation. People will find this out and, if our skaters win, which is very likely, they will think these are home-cooked results because I'm involved and I've been given plenty of time to influence other judges. There will be no way to prove that it was an honest victory. It will stay dubious till the end of our lives. I don't want this for me and for the sport of my country so I resign."
She didn't say that. Neither she did resign.

People talk about a conspiracy. Of course, there's no conspiracy! It's corruption as a norm of everyday life - like breathing.

drivingmissdaisy · Feb 24, 2014

I think there is a great focus on having the skaters deliver the technical goods in order to win. Last year, Yuna was ahead of Gracie's PCS by ~13 points at Worlds LP. In Sochi Yuna was ahead of Gracie by 6.

chuckm · Feb 24, 2014

The technical committee decides who will be on the tech panels. Guess who is the head of the technical committee? A Russian, of course.

gmyers · Feb 24, 2014

verysmuchso said:
COP just opened for Putin. It used to be pretty hard to crack. The two young Korean skaters (that Yuna refers to as her "Korean little skaters" who came along to Sochi) seemed totally devastated watching the scoreboard as the gueen was getting slain. I don't think the message was positive for them. They will probably turn to short track or some measured sports. Who knows?

This is not true. People said Russians controlled Ice Dance and it was corrupt and awful and Russians would never let Americans win or Canadians win and then IJS happened and a few years later B/A won silver in Turin and 4 years after that Canada won gold and US silver and in Sochi Russia United States Gold and Canada silver and COP was praised for being open to Ice dance around the world!! Now a Russian wins in singles and its all the same Russians are corrupt and Russians winning equal corruption and its all illegitimate! I admire Russians for dealing with this!!

Anna K. said:
Ture, and this is wrong. There's only one way how to tackle corruption: to prevent interest conflicts and the very situations when corruption is possible. The attitude of skating officials is simply not serious.

Don't tell me "maybe they're honest". Do you know what Alla Shekhovtsova should say was she honest? She'd say: "Sorry, I can't take this job. This sport has already been marred by corruption. I've been related to the boss of our skating federation. People will find this out and, if our skaters win, which is very likely, they will think these are home-cooked results because I'm involved and I've been given plenty of time to influence other judges. There will be no way to prove that it was an honest victory. It will stay dubious till the end of our lives. I don't want this for me and for the sport of my country so I resign."
She didn't say that. Neither she did resign.

People talk about a conspiracy. Of course, there's no conspiracy! It's corruption as a norm of everyday life - like breathing.

Judges of all nations if a skater from their nation was in contention for a medal would have the same duty to do this! But they think they are professionals and can judge all fairly! The only response to this is the ISU goes to nations that don't even qualify for an event and have all them judge it!!

Anna K. · Feb 24, 2014

gmyers said:
Judges of all nations if a skater from their nation was in contention for a medal would have the same duty to do this! But they think they are professionals and can judge all fairly! The only response to this is the ISU goes to nations that don't even qualify for an event and have all them judge it!!

The nation doesn't matter. What matters is, if the judge has been influenced. Normally, there are proofs if judges have been/ been not influenced: their telephone calls, e-mails and so on. That's how those deals get busted. What makes Shekhovtsova case scandalous is the fact that every kind of indluence can go on here unpunished. She sleeps with the guy - well, should anybody hide under the bed to make sure they don't talk about work? You can't tackle corruption here, no way.
Why should judges stay honest if they are free to cheat every way they please?

Mrs. P · Feb 24, 2014

That you will get an excessive number of threads on a figure skating board if you win and people aren't happy about it.

Sorry, couldn't resist. :laugh:

gmyers · Feb 24, 2014

Anna K. said:
The nation doesn't matter. What matters is, if the judge has been influenced. Normally, there are proofs if judges have been/ been not influenced: their telephone calls, e-mails and so on. That's how those deals get busted. What makes Shekhovtsova case scandalous is the fact that every kind of indluence can go on here unpunished. She sleeps with the guy - well, should anybody hide under the bed to make sure they don't talk about work? You can't tackle corruption here, no way.
Why should judges stay honest if they are free to cheat every way they please?

This post is gross. Sotnikova skated well! You can't do anything if the skater doesn't skate well. She has been a respected judge for decades and the only thing people think they can use against her is who she is married to. That is gross. Provide some proof. Prove all the other judges were wrong too. She as far as the scoresheet shows was not some kind of outrageous outlier!

Anna K. · Feb 24, 2014

Mrs. P said:
Sorry, couldn't resist.

Me neither. Is it that hard to understand?

Anna K. · Feb 24, 2014

gmyers said:
This post is gross. Sotnikova skated well! You can't do anything if the skater doesn't skate well. She has been a respected judge for decades and the only thing people think they can use against her is who she is married to. That is gross. Provide some proof. Prove all the other judges were wrong too. She as far as the scoresheet shows was not some kind of outrageous outlier!

Do you ever think for five minutes that some million of people who saw the picture of them both hugging on Yahoo have never seen figure skating and are not going to watch it? They don't give a damn if Sotnikova skates well but they all know what corruption and interest conflict is. There is such thing as reputation of the sport in general.

That's what was my point. I'm not sure if I made it clear to you. Probably it's not easy to understand that if you live in a figure skating universe where skating "well" or "not well" means the world.

louisa05 · Feb 24, 2014

I think we would have to see consistently bad judging over a longer period than one competition for it to lead to radical changes in skaters' training or choreography and program layout.

I do hope that results like this will make skating fans rethink the emphasis on the Olympic gold medal as defining success for skaters' entire careers. Controversial wins like this, one and done flukes like Hughes and champions like Asada, Kwan and Browning (and others across disciplines) not having one should teach us that the results of this once every four years event should not define skaters or be a mark against them. It requires a good amount of luck and being in the right place at the right time to win the Olympics. Hughes was lucky that others faltered. Sotnikova was lucky the Olympics were at home for her. Kwan, I think, was unlucky that the change in years was made just before she became a senior--1996 was her year--while Lipinski was very lucky that the change was made.

Anna K. · Feb 24, 2014

louisa05 said:
I think we would have to see consistently bad judging over a longer period than one competition for it to lead to radical changes in skaters' training or choreography and program layout.

I do hope that results like this will make skating fans rethink the emphasis on the Olympic gold medal as defining success for skaters' entire careers. Controversial wins like this, one and done flukes like Hughes and champions like Asada, Kwan and Browning (and others across disciplines) not having one should teach us that the results of this once every four years event should not define skaters or be a mark against them. It requires a good amount of luck and being in the right place at the right time to win the Olympics. Hughes was lucky that others faltered. Sotnikova was lucky the Olympics were at home for her. Kwan, I think, was unlucky that the change in years was made just before she became a senior--1996 was her year--while Lipinski was very lucky that the change was made.

I've done so many useless posts recently that I can do also this one: thanks, louisa05, for your philosophic and positive message. I don't believe fans will rethink that but I honestly wish they did.

calmqueen · Feb 24, 2014

Symmetry said:
Focus on technical difficulties. Never be discouraged by wrong-edge takeoff or under-rotaion. If you have high enough technical contents, your PCS will naturally follow.

Right on.

Everettguy · Feb 24, 2014

I hope that artistry combined with a technically superior program is what wins. In some ways I'm hoping that 7 triple
Programs become the norm again. And please stop with multiple double axels. Remember when Michelle Kwan did 2 triple lutzes? I miss that. It upped the ante and was more difficult than a lot of the current content. Most of the spins now used look so slow and uneasy. Maybe there need to be some changes to jumping passes allowed in the long program. Thinking out loud a bit. :think:

bonniesin · Feb 24, 2014

make sure the olympics are hosted by your home country if you want the OGM

Jump · Feb 24, 2014

It doesn't change a thing. People involved in the sport knows the judging isn't always fair. They're not dumb. They learn to take the good with the bad.

usethis2 · Feb 24, 2014

Flutz is fine.

jcsamex · Feb 24, 2014

I think they're hating Sotnikova right now because she stole a long time legend the chance for a second olympic gold medal (pretty much like they hated Lipinski and Hughes when they surpassed Kwan at the olympics).

I think more of those skaters who will be veterans at the 2018 games. They know for sure they can't rely on PCS expecting to end on top with lower TES like Kim did. Every single jump or spin counts and they should work on that as well on the artistic part of their programs.

aftertherain · Feb 24, 2014

It means that, if you're a Russian ladies' competitor, you sure as hell are going to be off the podium in 2018.

(Just kidding.)

cooper · Feb 24, 2014

well..in the next few years.. that any skater who doesn't have a strong fed no matter how talented she is will never have a chance of a podium finish...

i'm hoping i'm wrong..

Sotnikova's win: what does it mean to young skaters aiming for the next Olympics?

verysmuchso

Anna K.

drivingmissdaisy

chuckm

gmyers

Anna K.

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

gmyers

Anna K.

Anna K.

louisa05

Anna K.

calmqueen

Everettguy

bonniesin

Jump

usethis2

jcsamex

aftertherain

cooper

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