South Korean federation's complaint to the ISU about judging
- Thread starter avantgardener
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Every single criteria for level 4 was discussed in that thread for both Adelina and Yuna's step sequence. Blades of Passion's assessment of each skater's step sequence was backed by two ISU-certified trained specialists.
If you can specifically dispute what Blades of Passion or another poster's findings in that thread, speak up, but just saying that you "didn't see" Yuna meet "many" criteria for Level 4 and that Adelina's step sequence was "faster, more complex" doesn't make it true when you've offered no support for your findings, and others have.
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- Feb 23, 2014
Look at the replay. The only jump that seems to have any carry is the 2A at the end of the program. it's also her lowest jump.
Additional evidence includes her lack of extension compared to Yuna, Carolina, Mao (and add any number of skaters here). Finally, your retort to the point of Adelina having UR's is to say Yuna had UR'ed hers? Ridiculous. Adelina has the rep for flutzing and UR's (again proving my point about lack of distance due to lack of momentum to carry through the jump). Yuna has no such rep.
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- Feb 23, 2014
I couldn't find a thread to post this trivia question in, so I'll put it here.
Name the four ladies in figure skating history who have both a gold and a silver Olympic medal.
Does this include Dancers and Pairs?
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- Nov 12, 2013
I put up the url, I copied and pasted EXACTLY the Level Features as described in there, and the BoP thread was ONLY about Complexity (number of turns, steps, etc.) also described in the pdf as Level Feature 1 out of four Level Features judged. Feel free to explore yourself. I don't recall ANY of the other Level Features (i.e. 2, 3, 4) being discussed on that thread, but most certainly, they are part of the judging criteria.
Like I said, I'm not interested to repeat over and over, Yuna didn't have a great program, and counting on PCS and GOE to be awarded Gold isn't what I'd describe as a champion strategy.
Adios to you all!
Reply-
what? Those were all seen in that long thread before, even from the beginning. BoP argued that Sot failed to fulfill one particular criteria and it seems that you are trying to say that Yuna failed to fulfill one of the criteria, so which one?
And I checked your argument towards BOP's argument briefly, yet your argument is only valid IF the interpretation of the rule BoP provides is weaker than he said, which is highly unlikely provided that there were less than 5 ladies got lv 4 at Sochi. And in either way, Yuna at least fully fulfilled that particular criteria.
So which criteria are you talking about?
Which 3sal from Yuna you think under-rotated? (Since you also seem to acknowledge under-rotation of Sot's 3T as well)
How about overlooked Sot's 3 flutz?
what? Those were all seen in that long thread before, even from the beginning. BoP argued that Sot failed to fulfill one particular criteria and it seems that you are trying to say that Yuna failed to fulfill one of the criteria, so which one?
And I checked your argument towards BOP's argument briefly, yet your argument is only valid IF the interpretation of the rule BoP provides is weaker than he said, which is highly unlikely provided that there were less than 5 ladies got lv 4 at Sochi. And in either way, Yuna at least fully fulfilled that particular criteria.
So which criteria are you talking about?
Which 3sal from Yuna you think under-rotated? (Since you also seem to acknowledge under-rotation of Sot's 3T as well)
How about overlooked Sot's 3 flutz?
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- Feb 23, 2014
Yes, but you have to meet the "Complexity" criteria before you can even start thinking about "Features". Adelina failed to do that. You can't meet one without meeting the other and expect to get the highest level.
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- Nov 12, 2013
Like I said, i didn't think Yuna fulfill a couple of the other Level Features for stsq, it appears you don't know the thread about the number of steps and turns is ONLY one level feature but do us a favor and actually *read* the isu pdf. I'm NOT going to sit down in front of a screen to try to prove it. Sorry, I have a life!
Bye!You pasted the rules and said, "So did Yuna skate fulfill these other level features to merit level 4? No one really went into it."
Yes, whether Yuna fulfilled ALL of the level features (and not JUST complexity) WAS covered in that thread by Blades of Passion. Disagree with him if you like or are able to but don't just make stuff up about it not being discussed.
Like I said, i didn't think Yuna fulfill a couple of the other Level Features for stsq, but I'm NOT going to sit down in front of a screen to try to prove it. Sorry, I have a life!
Okay. You simply invalidated your argument by yourself. Bye and have a good life!
Lol is this a serious post?
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- Feb 23, 2014
Incidentally, Adelina kind of reminded me of Mirai Nagasu (whom I love, BTW), especially earlier in Marai's career. She uses a similar technique for jumping and has to deal with the same kind of UR issues. If you don't get the carry from the jump because you jump up and down verses up and out, you can very easily under-rotate your jumps (lack of momentum). Up and out sacrifices height but you get greater carry.
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- Nov 12, 2013
I didn't see a lot of upper body movement, not as much as Adelina, the combinations I see in Yuna's stsq are not according to the criteria of difficulty described, there were stretched out moments between the turns, that's two other level features that i didn't see in Yuna's skate with my naked eye and impression in real time. My impression of other Level 4 stsq is that there are quite strong, clear rotations, speed and rhythm, with no pauses, like Caro's or Chan's, so I am judging based on what I've seen and understood. Again, I am not sitting and replaying every movement in front of my screen, I don't have the time or interest. I don't have a raging drive to prove Yuna as undeserving of her medal, that is the big difference. And the entire thread was mostly about whether Adelina achieved complexity because she did 6 instead of 5 types of turns. BoP simply stated as a fact Yuna achieved the other Feature Levels, I wouldn't call that a detailed discussion. A statement is not a discussion, period.
Maybe you should all make threads about all the other level features and their criteria to disqualify Adelina's stsq. Make those long and drawn-out, with every turn, rotation, seconds in between, etc. counted and described. That would be more convincing!
I want to chime in about Adelina's performance. I definitely think that she can grow from experience time to time, but she really needs to work on her leg hold spins. They look sloppy, and looks like she is trying way to hard forgetting about the artistry. Does anyone agree with me on this?
You originally said none of the other feature levels were discussed in that thread, now you've changed that to "detailed discussion." Nice try. Btw, if you're not interested in sitting and replaying every moment, then why are you disputing the assessments of people who DID replay every movement and cataloged them and judged the sequence according to the rules? When you excuse your lack of detailed support by saying you don't have the "time or interest" to replay every movement, you undermine your own credibility. By the way, Carolina Kostner and others DO have choreographed pauses in their footwork! They are allowed PER THE RULES that you linked. Look at the PDF, see where it says, "Short stops in accordance with the music are permitted."
Yuna clearly has upper body movement throughout the entire sequence, every move reflects the music and she has perfect clarity of movement in this sequence which is INCREDIBLY difficult. I have no idea what you're talking about "stretched out moments between the turns". The last third of Yuna's step sequence deliberately slows down in perfect relation to the music--that does not make it inferior or prevent it from being a level 4.
That applies to everything you've said in this thread, as you've just thrown out blanket generalizations with flat-out incorrect statements.
Maybe you should all make threads about all the other level features and their criteria to disqualify Adelina's stsq. That would be more convincing!
I'm not interested in disqualifying Adelina's step sequence. And yeah, you do seem to have a raging need to prove Yuna as undeserving.
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- Nov 12, 2013
Upper body movements "means the visible use for a combined total of at
least 1/3 of the pattern of the step sequence any movements of the arms, and/or
head and/or torso that have an effect on the balance of the main body core.
Having an effect on the balance of main body core can also be understood as having
an effect on the balance of the body as a whole and influencing the balance on the blade.
This I didn't see in Yuna's stsq.
Stops are allowed according to the music sequence, but the difficult turns combinations must be tightly executed, exit edges into entrance edges, or they cannot be deemed a "combination". Like I said, Caro, Chan, and any others performed them, and I judge according to their standard of performance.
Unlike you, I didn't follow the thread in its entirety, not at all, waste of time really, so I had no idea if all the other Level Features were discussed, but do point out for our benefit the DISCUSSION about all those other Level Features in the thread, i.e. comparing Adelina and Yuna's Level Features 2,3, 4, blow by blow. What you posted is a STATEMENT.
The rules don't specify "as much or more upper body movement compared to the skater currently sitting in first". It says you have to have upper body movements that have an effect on the main body core for at least 1/3 of the pattern. Yuna did that.
Cite the criteria please.
Sure, but that questions was pretty much put to rest by the end of that thread -- No one has been able to cite an official source proclaiming a different interpretation of the ambiguous words in question. Not to mention all knowledgable opinions that were offered, plus the evidence, support's BoP's interpretation.
No BoP did not "simply state" anything as a fact - BoP went through pains to identify and list every single step and turn by both Adelina and Yuna - you can hardly get more detailed in a discussion about step sequences....
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- Nov 12, 2013
Hey, post blow by blow stsq breakdown ok, to help me and other nonbelievers see better. Didn't see them, so guys, do your homework.
Remember, there are Level Features 2, 3 & 4, don't leave any stone unturn!
Didn't see them, so guys, do your homework.Remember, there are Level Features 2, 3 & 4, don't leave any stone unturn!
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