Which ice dance team is Zueva's current top team?

TontoK said:

I would jump for joy if I heard that the Shibs kicked in the door and entered their next practice session like they owned the joint.

I'm talking attitude, bitchy, diva, prima ballerina behavior.

If THEY don't believe they're top dogs in the rink, why should anyone else?

I'm sure it's not in their nature, because they come across as exceptionally nice people, but if I were them, I'd be tired of playing second... even third... fiddle.

They've waited their turn like good training partners with V/M and D/W, but they need to believe and act like THEY are the stars. Not the Italians. Not the Russians.

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I have to agree with this. They look "small". Don't get me wrong, I love that aspect of them being nice and look nice.
But yes, they have not only to enter in practice seasson like they owned the joint but in competition as well.
They have to get that "look at me (us)" attitude.

dress said:

I don't think V/M would return to Zueva. The Shibs are not in a good position. They had bad programs in the last seasons. Marina Zueva talks a lot more about Victoria and Nikita. She is not pushing the Shibs forward. Furthermore, the shibs are not perfectly presented. They are very good technical skaters, but they miss the Wow factor of the top teams. I think they still need to find the perfect package to show us how great they are. I don't think they will find it with Marina.

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Case in point: Their Olympic season FD. D/W and V/M got exquisite programs... well, V/M grew on me as the season progressed... but what did the Shibs get?

A Michael Jackson medley? Are you kidding me??? It was so insignificant compared to the podium contenders. It was a choreographic afterthought.

They have to DEMAND better treatment than that.

chapis said:

I wonder what are doing Victoria and Nikita aside of skating in Detroit, maybe studying english.

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I do have to say I think Victoria was very brave to come here. As far as I know/have heard she knew literally almost no English (not sure where she is with it now, but sure it is better than none) and was obviously risking a lot for a new partnership. Nikita at least had some English (though nowhere near as good as Elena's).

Maybe Marina's next move will be to get them colored contacts that make their eyes look even bluer. She doubtless thinks the real issue isn't the low levels that she doesn't understand, but the fact that the judges were unable to clearly see how very blue their eyes are (probably due to their being so fast, faster than anyone else in the world).

TontoK said:

I would jump for joy if I heard that the Shibs kicked in the door and entered their next practice session like they owned the joint.

I'm talking attitude, bitchy, diva, prima ballerina behavior.

If THEY don't believe they're top dogs in the rink, why should anyone else?

I'm sure it's not in their nature, because they come across as exceptionally nice people, but if I were them, I'd be tired of playing second... even third... fiddle.

They've waited their turn like good training partners with V/M and D/W, but they need to believe and act like THEY are the stars. Not the Italians. Not the Russians.

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I feel this too, like they are almost too 'nice' and 'girl/guy next door'.

Whether Marina thinks so in her clouded head or not, they are currently her best team. This even includes C/L based on evidence so far this season (though that could change). They need to believe this and go out there a little more Madison Chock like. Maybe what they really do need is simply more fire.

ETA: Likely the real issue is Marina thinks S/K have more potential than the Shibs. If so, this is even more reason to run from her. I have said before that while she clearly is at minimum a very good coach, she seems to have no idea what to do with a sibling team. Maybe this shmaltzy romance is the only thing she can really do in the end.

I just want they try another coreographer, stay with Marina and go to Platov or whoever other coreographer please.

tulosai said:

Maybe Marina's next move will be to get them colored contacts that make their eyes look even bluer. She doubtless thinks the real issue isn't the low levels that she doesn't understand, but the fact that the judges were unable to clearly see how very blue their eyes are (probably due to their being so fast, faster than anyone else in the world).

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Apparently, according to Marina and skyfly, looks are what determines who will be world champion

chapis said:

I just want they try another coreographer, stay with Marina and go to Platov or whoever other coreographer please.

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To me, Shibutanis main problem is not choreography... They don't have power and speed to show choreography of their dances... Platov worked on basic skating at summer for Coomes/Buckland... If you compare last year and this year, you can see C/B actually skating little bit more now... My choice of coach for them is Platov... Zoueva never worked on skating skills of Belbin, she didn't do with Shibs too...

Shpilband's team got all the levels, were extremely well prepared, powerful, fast across the ice and extremely sleek.
Marina's teams have lost loads of levels so far this season, are not very well prepared, lack power and are slow across the ice.
Now correct me if I am wrong, but it does tend to look like Zoueva is nothing without Shpilband, she is hopelessly lost.

Igor did say that once he'd left the teams remaining with Zoueva would have enough technically to be OK for 1 or 2 seasons.
He was totally right, as now that period has passed, Zoueva is lost and her teams are struggling.
They are losing levels, the lifts aren't seamless as they were with Igor, everything is falling apart, and Zoueva has no idea why.

I can tell you why Zoueva! You owe all your success with the top North American teams to Igor, who you then threw out like dirty laundry.
You only get out of life what you put into it, and in Zoueva's case she is now facing the consequences of her own actions.
Sadly teams like Aldrige and Eaton failed to see that Igor was the powerhouse and Zoueva is just a fruitcake.

Also I think Igor is the one who willingly to work challenging/different lifts. Shibs, Capellini/Lanotte and Sinitsina/Katsalapov does nothing but generic or former lifts of V/M and D/W. We can understand S/K is new team, but Shibs and Capellini/Lanotte very very badly needs different lifts, If they want medals.

Sure, Marina's teams are struggling, and Igor's teams have done well due to his understanding of COP and the ability to rack up points. But then again, Igor's programs are so boring - C&B's American in Paris? C&L's Carmen? It's too bad Igor and Marina couldn't work out their differences.

Igor's technical vision and Marina's artistic eye could have continued to do special programs. Now they're both stagnating, but at least Igor's teams are winning medals.

BlackPack said:

Sure, Marina's teams are struggling, and Igor's teams have done well due to his understanding of COP and the ability to rack up points. But then again, Igor's programs are so boring - C&B's American in Paris? C&L's Carmen? It's too bad Igor and Marina couldn't work out their differences.

Igor's technical vision and Marina's artistic eye could have continued to do special programs. Now they're both stagnating, but at least Igor's teams are winning medals.

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I don't agree that Igor's programs are boring. He specializes in speed and difficult transitions which is foremost in Chock & Bates programs and makes it interesting to watch. Chock is a natural actress and Bates is a strong technical partner. They have really improved, doing great lifts, especially in the last 2 years of their 4 year partnership. New partnerships take time to gel which is why I wouldn't count out Russia's I&Z and S&K to be in the mix for the next OWG.

Mattieu said:

You owe all your success with the top North American teams to Igor, who you then threw out like dirty laundry.

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I don't keep up with off-ice dance really, so would you mind explaining why Marina stopped working with Igor?

BlackPack said:

Sure, Marina's teams are struggling, and Igor's teams have done well due to his understanding of COP and the ability to rack up points. But then again, Igor's programs are so boring - C&B's American in Paris? C&L's Carmen? It's too bad Igor and Marina couldn't work out their differences.

Igor's technical vision and Marina's artistic eye could have continued to do special programs. Now they're both stagnating, but at least Igor's teams are winning medals.

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They are boring, but they fulfill technical requirements, which in this COP, is what comes first.

What's anyone gonna do about it? :sarcasm:

It's a sad day in ice dance when the off-ice drama overshadows the on-ice competition a la I/Z & S/K.
^Even though I personally loved it. It's reality TV without the script!

elif said:

To me, Shibutanis main problem is not choreography... They don't have power and speed to show choreography of their dances... Platov worked on basic skating at summer for Coomes/Buckland... If you compare last year and this year, you can see C/B actually skating little bit more now... My choice of coach for them is Platov... Zoueva never worked on skating skills of Belbin, she didn't do with Shibs too...

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The Shibs are not stupid, surely they know that they are not Marina´s priority and that she is not the best technical coach, if they stay in Canton is because the Univ, their home, family or whatever other reason (and they are accepting always very graceful their scores). But at least I want to see more entertaining programs, Sara and Adria and the Kerrs have not better skating skills than the Shibs and they have better programs.

Ok, you can argue that it's interesting to watch how a chessmaster like Igor puts pieces of complexity together almost in a pedantic manner.

When was the last time I saw a program that excited me? Programs like the Kerrs' Muse, WeaPo's Tango, Dai's programs, etc? Something is sorely missing.

No one said the Shibs are stupid, but seriously, if they want to win a World title or Olympic medal within this quad, major changes have to be made. If you want something this big that everyone else wants, you better fight for it. We're still waiting for that Mahler-level type program Marina is supposed to make for them. Not happening and won't.

I feel like the Shibs are Zueva's strongest team at the moment (frankly, wasn't too hyped about C/L even when they won Worlds). But as everyone has noted, she seems to be treating S/K as her top team. I wonder what will change now that I/Z beat S/K at CoR...

Tessa and Scott aren't going to go back to her. Not if they hear her interviews about S/K already surpassing her former champions in many aspects, or see her teams' "success" on the circuit this season. I hope they heard that interview and are now inspired to come back though!

The relative weakness of the field at this point has got to ignite a twinkling in the eyes of V/M and D/W.

I had expected that neither would return to competition. Now, I'm not so sure.

I would love to see the Shibs working with Dubreuil Lauzon in Montreal. They create very interesting programs. I think they could package them in a different way. Futhermore, there is McGill University in Montreal. It's an excellent university

dress said:

I would love to see the Shibs working with Dubreuil Lauzon in Montreal. They create very interesting programs. I think they could package them in a different way. Futhermore, there is McGill University in Montreal. It's an excellent university

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Agreed. McGill would be great. D&L are on the rise. KRylova and cam are swamped and seem to be stagnating.

BlackPack said:

Agreed. McGill would be great. D&L are on the rise. KRylova and cam are swamped and seem to be stagnating.

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How much can they to do in the university if they are doing competitions oct- march, in the summer they are doing stars on ice and the ice almost 6 weeks, the courses are not semestrals (semiannual)? they allow them not to attend as many classes? If they are let them pass courses without assist to all the classes, well, that is a good incentive to stay in that university and with Marina.

chapis said:

How much can they to do in the university if they are doing competitions oct- march, in the summer they are doing stars on ice and the ice almost 6 weeks, the courses are not semestrals (semiannual)? they allow them not to attend as many classes? If they are let them pass courses without assist to all the classes, well, that is a good incentive to stay in that university and with Marina.

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In the US, academic calendars are set by the individual universities and vary widely. Big state universities like UMich generally have two semesters: a fall semester from late August/early September to just before Christmas, and a spring semester from early-mid January to late April/early May. (Private universities may have slightly shorter semesters: 13-14 weeks instead of the 15-16 typical of state universities. Some universities, including most of the University of California system, have three quarters of roughly ten weeks each, much as Oxford and Cambridge do.) So the Shibutanis would have May-August free of classes to tour and prepare new programs for the season.

Minimum enrollment also varies widely from school to school. Top private universities, such as Yale, require students to be enrolled full-time if at all; you pay full tuition and take a full schedule of 4-5 courses or apply for a leave of absence. (This is presumably not the only reason that Sarah Hughes had to take time off from school to skate with SOI, for example, but it would have been a factor.) On the other hand, state universities need to accommodate a wider range of students, from 18-year-olds attending full-time to older students working full-time while earning a degree by taking one or two courses a semester. You can generally pay a reduced tuition fee and take fewer courses per semester, over more semesters.

It's possible that they could be taking, say, two courses a semester (=roughly half of a full-time courseload), both of which meet Monday and Wednesday or Tuesday and Thursday. This would give them five days a week to focus solely on skating and still leave some time for training on "school days." They'd have to arrange with their professors to miss a couple of class meetings each semester to travel to competitions (say, two in the fall for GP assignments, and two in the spring for nationals and worlds), but that wouldn't be an extraordinary number of classes to miss. A full-time student generally takes four years to graduate; I remember Meryl Davis tweeting something about being in her seventh year of university or taking seven years to get her degree, which would suggest that she was doing something along these lines.