Next in line: Shoma Uno

Interspectator · Apr 7, 2015

An interesting side note to this article is all the champion skaters that have come for the Aichi region VS the 2 Olympic Gold medalists that came from Sendai, plus, Honda Takeshi, Akiko Suzuki (trained there) and Rika Hongo also came from the Sendai area.

And a great article about Shoma. He's very young, and looks even younger, but he has a love for skating that I like to see.
I really want him to skate something that HE enjoys in his first senior year. -whatever it may be. I also liked his programs from one season back. The transitioning phase from Junior to Senior may be tough, but I think he'll make it just fine.

He's a very hard worker so for him, it will be about training smart, and not getting injured.

P.S. I would consider a successful season for Shoma would be a medal or medals in the GP series, getting silver again at Japan Nationals and getting into the top 6 at worlds.
If Rika can do it, first try, Shoma can do it too.

Crossover · Apr 7, 2015

Sandpiper said:
Look, I'm not sold on Shoma myself (and the premature crowning of him can be grating), but it's rather unfair to characterize his performances at 4CC and Jr. Worlds as "meltdowns." And unfair to characterize Shoma himself as prone to faltering under pressure. Yes, he made mistakes at 4CC and Jr. Worlds, but the performances as a whole were okay.

Shoma's actually quite consistent by the standards of the current men's field. Can you think of anyone else who a) has both quad and 3A b) and is more consistent than him? I can think of Nam, and that's it.

Who knows how Shoma would've done at senior Worlds, but to be honest, he'd have to try pretty hard to do worse than what Kozuka/Mura showed up with. (I like them both--more than I like Shoma--but those SPs were worthy of the moniker "meltdown," more than anything Shoma did this year). Not saying Shoma should've been selected for Worlds, necessarily, since it was a long season for the juniors and he's probably exhausted. But it's reasonable to think Shoma would've kept the spots, since Kozuka was only one place off, even though he skated worse than Shoma's done all year.

Maybe Murakami would've been a better choice than Kozuka (who can't rotate jumps anymore) or Mura (when Mura's injured), but he's also quite inconsistent, in addition to having lower scoring potential due to the planned 4S-2T (does the guy seriously not know how to do a triple lutz-triple toe??)

I should've narrowed the meltdowns at 4CC and Jr. Worlds, to the both free segments, but I did that in my other post. Look at 4CC, it has been quite a while for Japanese men to fail to get a medal since 2007. Although Shoma's SP was place at 2nd with the generous score, he was beaten to Dice at last. If Dice had received a little more PCS and GOE in SP at 4CC, he could've won the bronze medal and I'm more of Han's fan, not Dice and Mura.

Since you mention Nam Nguyen, Nam's placement at Worlds 2014 was 12th after he won the Jr. Wolrds. Senior stages are totally different from juniors. Nam didn't get a success in 4CC of the last and this season while he was placed at 5th in this season's Worlds. Considering all of these, so many various factors exist. This is why I couldn't agree with the voice that Uno could've kept the Worlds spot for Japan if he had been sent to Worlds.

LRK · Apr 7, 2015

The thing about comparing the potential results of skaters who didn't go, with those who did, is that one can presume anything about the skater who did not go, be it their best performances, their worst, their last, or anything else (depending on preferences), whilst the skaters who DID go are stuck with what they actually DID DO - not what they might have done.

Sandpiper · Apr 7, 2015

inside edges said:
I should've narrowed the meltdowns at 4CC and Jr. Worlds, to the both free segments, but I did that in my other post. Look at 4CC, it has been quite a while for Japanese men to fail to get a medal since 2007. Although Shoma's SP was place at 2nd with the generous score, he was beaten to Dice at last. If Dice had received a little more PCS and GOE in SP at 4CC, he could've won the bronze medal and I'm more of Han's fan, not Dice and Mura.

Since you mention Nam Nguyen, Nam's placement at Worlds 2014 was 12th after he won the Jr. Wolrds. Senior stages are totally different from juniors. Nam didn't get a success in 4CC of the last and this season while he was placed at 5th in this season's Worlds. Considering all of these, so many various factors exist. This is why I couldn't agree with the voice that Uno could've kept the Worlds spot for Japan if he had been sent to Worlds.

I wouldn't characterize Shoma's LPs at 4CC or Jr. Worlds as meltdowns. I mean, at Junior Worlds, he still outscored Mura's LP at Worlds (I was actually surprised Mura's LP score was so low, but that's a whole other topic). And let's face it--we shouldn't ignore Shoma's ability to deliver a clean SP. I said the same thing about Tatsuki Machida: maybe he'll mess up the LP, but he hasn't had an outright bad SP all season. You can at least count on him to set himself in a position to medal, instead of shooting himself in the foot before the LP even begins.

As for Nam: The comparison doesn't stand. As much as I like Nam, Shoma at the present is (seen by the judges as) a vastly superior skater. Shoma's skating skills give him the PCS to contend for the top. This goes double if we're comparing to the Nam of last year, who didn't have a quad and fell on a triple axel to land in 12th place. Shoma would have to make a lot of mistakes to end up there (which he very well could have, but let's not pretend it's a likely scenario).

Mrs. P · Apr 7, 2015

He has a lot of promise, for sure. I do think that judges appreciate his basic skating and choreography. And it's great he has improved technically, especially considering that he didn't really have a 3A a year ago.

The quote of "it's not where you start, it's how you finish" does apply here.

Han Yan medaled at his first senior international competition (also 4CC, but in 2013) and basically dominated the 2011-2012 junior men season. He also had a rapid start by winning his first GP event, the Cup of China in 2013, and making GPF in his first year on the circuit. But due to illness and injuries he hasn't quite dominated as much as I thinka guy with his skills (great 3A, awesome skating skills) would.

I'm hoping his coaches is not working him too hard -- it sounds like Shoma has dealt with injuries this season -- IIRC the problems he had at both 4CC and Jr. Worlds was due to that? And as he's probably still growing, he probably still has a high risk of getting injuries that could sideline his career.

silverlake22 · Apr 7, 2015

MsLiinaLii said:
Tbh, seeing him live at Junior Worlds left me a bit unipressed. His flow, SS were amazing, but most of the jumps were tiny...

He is a small guy, his jumps are adequate given his size. I hope that he can work on getting his jumps a bit bigger, but I have never found them to be distractingly small and pre-rotated like Satoko's.

Sandpiper · Apr 7, 2015

silverlake22 said:
He is a small guy, his jumps are adequate given his size. I hope that he can work on getting his jumps a bit bigger, but I have never found them to be distractingly small and pre-rotated like Satoko's.

Tatsuki Machida is a small guy. His jumps are high, airy, and every bit as good as his taller competitors.

(Not that Shoma can't be a good skater in other aspects--but the jumps are what they are).

andyjo24 · Apr 7, 2015

To me, Shoma Uno = Male Satoko Miyahara.

Bad jumps but great skating skills and transitions, etc.

silverlake22 · Apr 7, 2015

Sandpiper said:
Tatsuki Machida is a small guy. His jumps are high, airy, and every bit as good as his taller competitors.

(Not that Shoma can't be a good skater in other aspects--but the jumps are what they are).

Small people can have big jumps, sure, I mean Oda is a perfect example. I more meant, that while I agree Shoma has small jumps, I don't find them unusually small for a skater his age and size. I think he could work on his toe jumps - flip and lutz, which tend to be low and a bit wonky at times, but his 3a, 4t, and edge jumps are nice. He also has difficult entrances into a lot of his jumps and I think the flow he carries into and out of his jumps make them more impressive. Idk, jumps is definitely an area he can improve, but I think he's already made a lot of strides in that department this season.

makaihime · Apr 7, 2015

andyjo24 said:
To me, Shoma Uno = Male Satoko Miyahara.

Bad jumps but great skating skills and transitions, etc.

Pretty much this. Though Miyahara jumps are worst and needs major rehauling...ASAP. Neither of them catch my eyes and I find them relatively boring to watch :shrug:

Sandpiper · Apr 7, 2015

silverlake22 said:
Small people can have big jumps, sure, I mean Oda is a perfect example. I more meant, that while I agree Shoma has small jumps, I don't find them unusually small for a skater his age and size. I think he could work on his toe jumps - flip and lutz, which tend to be low and a bit wonky at times, but his 3a, 4t, and edge jumps are nice. He also has difficult entrances into a lot of his jumps and I think the flow he carries into and out of his jumps make them more impressive. Idk, jumps is definitely an area he can improve, but I think he's already made a lot of strides in that department this season.

My point is, I don't necessarily see a correlation between jump size and person size. I wouldn't use Shoma's height as a reason/excuse for his jumps.

betat · Apr 8, 2015

Sandpiper said:
My point is, I don't necessarily see a correlation between jump size and person size. I wouldn't use Shoma's height as a reason/excuse for his jumps.

Actually there is a correlation between height and jump size in general.
I know someone like Oda had nice high jumps so it doesn't apply to all skaters, but Oda's case is more of a statistical error and definitely not the norm.
Also, Uno's still growing and his muscle development isn't over yet so of course he has smaller jumps than Oda and Machida.

Crossover · Apr 8, 2015

Sandpiper said:
I wouldn't characterize Shoma's LPs at 4CC or Jr. Worlds as meltdowns. I mean, at Junior Worlds, he still outscored Mura's LP at Worlds (I was actually surprised Mura's LP score was so low, but that's a whole other topic). And let's face it--we shouldn't ignore Shoma's ability to deliver a clean SP. I said the same thing about Tatsuki Machida: maybe he'll mess up the LP, but he hasn't had an outright bad SP all season. You can at least count on him to set himself in a position to medal, instead of shooting himself in the foot before the LP even begins.

As for Nam: The comparison doesn't stand. As much as I like Nam, Shoma at the present is (seen by the judges as) a vastly superior skater. Shoma's skating skills give him the PCS to contend for the top. This goes double if we're comparing to the Nam of last year, who didn't have a quad and fell on a triple axel to land in 12th place. Shoma would have to make a lot of mistakes to end up there (which he very well could have, but let's not pretend it's a likely scenario).

Anything could've happened in hypotheses based on their achievements and potentials or our wishful thinking, but this is actually what happened at Worlds.

Nam Nguyen leaped in placement from 11th at 4CC to 5th at Worlds under the layout with a quad in FS.
Jason Brown and Misha Ge without quads became a 4th and 6th finisher respectively.
Sergei Voronov with quads and consistency became a 13th finisher after his SP at 4th placement. :drama:

Joshua Farris with the good results at Nationals and 4CC on the trot became a 11th finisher.
Florent Amodio finished at 9th after his long struggles in recent years, so secured the French 2 spots.
Peter Liebers didn't even advance to the free skate after his decent results from Universiade and Euros.

I didn't expect all of these as well as the team Japan's one spot loss for the next Worlds. I didn't expect Mura and Voronov injured just in front to the most important event of the season for them. Instead of injured Mura, we could've seen Shoma possibly in exhaustion at Worlds since the Worlds took place about two weeks after Jr. Worlds. Considering what I've said so far, I don't get on the same board with you. Let's agree that we disagree.

Next in line: Shoma Uno

Interspectator

Crossover

All Hail the Queen

LRK

Sandpiper

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

silverlake22

Sandpiper

andyjo24

silverlake22

makaihime

Sandpiper

betat

Crossover

All Hail the Queen

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