State of U.S. Dance 2015-2016

dorispulaski said:

Doesn't Chris Dean do quite a bit of the choreo for that school?

Yes, there are often teams from Colorado at Senior and Junior Nationals, but they have not been winners.

I think, in recent years, the most successful were Pratt & Gilles?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trina_Pratt

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Yes, Christopher Dean choreographed their FD, I think?

He did. And he continued to choreograph for Jane Summerset & Todd Gilles. He did their O Brother, Where Art Thou soundtrack folk OD program from 2007-08 Nationals, which is sadly no longer on Icenetwork. I used to watch that one over from time to time.


I wonder whether the gospel tune from that movie, used by Jane and Todd, Down to the River to Pray by Alison Krauss, or Man of Constant Sorrow also featured in that soundtrack, would meet the requirements for blues for this seadon's SD? I really haven't gotten into the nitty gritty of the dance docs for the new season yet,so I don't know. I am still taking a bit of a vacay from skating. But IMO those tunes worked really well for skating.

I give up if M/C stay Juniors yet another season. Four seasons on the JGP isn't enough? So that means yet another year at Nationals skating as Juniors too? At this point it's getting ridiculous. Either move up and start challenging yourself or don't even bother at this point. That will make it 7 years skating as Juniors at Nationals.

Jammers said:

I give up if M/C stay Juniors yet another season. Four seasons on the JGP isn't enough? So that means yet another year at Nationals skating as Juniors too? At this point it's getting ridiculous. Either move up and start challenging yourself or don't even bother at this point. That will make it 7 years skating as Juniors at Nationals.

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I wonder if they are learning from Hawayek-Baker's entrance to the seniors. Although a big splash the first year, H/B may have their hands full next year. They must have been so disappointed to have slipped from 4th to 5th in nationals. I'm a big fan of H/B so I hope they bounce back from their sophomore slump. Maybe M/C are thinking they need to get their growing pains out of the way in juniors and enter seniors a full contender and maybe in 2018-19 when likely the top 3 US ice dance team will leave amateurs, at least for awhile. There may have been an age issue with H/B and maybe M/C. M/C are so dominant in juniors (with the Parsons) that moving up makes sense but it would be interesting to hear their strategy.

slider11 said:

I wonder if they are learning from Hawayek-Baker's entrance to the seniors. Although a big splash the first year, H/B may have their hands full next year. They must have been so disappointed to have slipped from 4th to 5th in nationals. I'm a big fan of H/B so I hope they bounce back from their sophomore slump. Maybe M/C are thinking they need to get their growing pains out of the way in juniors and enter seniors a full contender and maybe in 2018-19 when likely the top 3 US ice dance team will leave amateurs, at least for awhile. There may have been an age issue with H/B and maybe M/C. M/C are so dominant in juniors (with the Parsons) that moving up makes sense but it would be interesting to hear their strategy.

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M/C age out of Juniors in 2017 so they will have to move up to Seniors in the Olympic year anyways so why not get a head start a year early? To be honest another year in Juniors won't make them full contenders in the Olympic year anyways but going Senior next season will make a big difference after 2018.

slider11 said:

I wonder if they are learning from Hawayek-Baker's entrance to the seniors. Although a big splash the first year, H/B may have their hands full next year. They must have been so disappointed to have slipped from 4th to 5th in nationals. I'm a big fan of H/B so I hope they bounce back from their sophomore slump. Maybe M/C are thinking they need to get their growing pains out of the way in juniors and enter seniors a full contender and maybe in 2018-19 when likely the top 3 US ice dance team will leave amateurs, at least for awhile. There may have been an age issue with H/B and maybe M/C. M/C are so dominant in juniors (with the Parsons) that moving up makes sense but it would be interesting to hear their strategy.

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Jammers said:

M/C age out of Juniors in 2017 so they will have to move up to Seniors in the Olympic year anyways so why not get a head start a year early? To be honest another year in Juniors won't make them full contenders in the Olympic year anyways but going Senior next season will make a big difference after 2018.

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slider11 I see your point here. Because with the case of Hawayek/Baker and also Yanovskaya/Mozgov, they did have a difficult 2nd and 1st year respectively in seniors. For Y/M I was surprised to see such low scores. And I wondered why H/B were having a difficult 2nd year.

Though Jammers, I very well see your point as well. Especially since in the 2015-2016 season, McNamara/Carpenter had a SUPERB season. With a clean sweep of golds and a near perfect season (I say "near perfect" cause they got 2nd in the SD at the JWC), there's literally NOTHING else to top it for next season. Sure there's one year left for BOTH M/C and the Parsons. But honestly, they HAVE been on the junior circuit together long enough. I want them to spend at least an equal amount of their career in seniors. Seniors is a bit different. For one, the FD is 3:50-4:10 instead of 3:20-3:40. Good to practice the change in the length of time for endurance reasons. Second, an extra lift is in the FD for seniors and they might want to start practicing new lifts. Plus it's better to transition now so that by 2018 Olympics time, they MIGHT go to the 4CC due to well, pretty much none of the skaters in North America go to the 4CC the same year as the Olympics if they're named to the Olympic team. That is....well yeah. Better to start earlier and establish a name for yourself sooner. Plus the sooner they start, the longer amount of time they have to improve, polish, practice, and get used to the senior circuit so by the time 2022 comes around, they might medal.

slider11 said:

I wonder if they are learning from Hawayek-Baker's entrance to the seniors. Although a big splash the first year, H/B may have their hands full next year. They must have been so disappointed to have slipped from 4th to 5th in nationals. I'm a big fan of H/B so I hope they bounce back from their sophomore slump. Maybe M/C are thinking they need to get their growing pains out of the way in juniors and enter seniors a full contender and maybe in 2018-19 when likely the top 3 US ice dance team will leave amateurs, at least for awhile. There may have been an age issue with H/B and maybe M/C. M/C are so dominant in juniors (with the Parsons) that moving up makes sense but it would be interesting to hear their strategy.

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Any other country (except maybe Canada), H/B probably would have been on the podium easily, but as densely packed as American dance is right now, I can definitely see how H/B's entry to seniors might make M/C wary. I think H/B's slip at Nationals was a fluke this year and they can get back to #4, especially given that they, M/C, and the Parsons are the likely "replacements", so to speak, for the current top three post-2018. If M/C do move up to seniors, the best strategy would probably be to focus more on their standing relative to H/B rather than to the top three, who are all among the top 6 teams in the world.

cheerknithanson said:

slider11 I see your point here. Because with the case of Hawayek/Baker and also Yanovskaya/Mozgov, they did have a difficult 2nd and 1st year respectively in seniors. For Y/M I was surprised to see such low scores. And I wondered why H/B were having a difficult 2nd year.

Though Jammers, I very well see your point as well. Especially since in the 2015-2016 season, McNamara/Carpenter had a SUPERB season. With a clean sweep of golds and a near perfect season (I say "near perfect" cause they got 2nd in the SD at the JWC), there's literally NOTHING else to top it for next season. Sure there's one year left for BOTH M/C and the Parsons. But honestly, they HAVE been on the junior circuit together long enough. I want them to spend at least an equal amount of their career in seniors. Seniors is a bit different. For one, the FD is 3:50-4:10 instead of 3:20-3:40. Good to practice the change in the length of time for endurance reasons. Second, an extra lift is in the FD for seniors and they might want to start practicing new lifts. Plus it's better to transition now so that by 2018 Olympics time, they MIGHT go to the 4CC due to well, pretty much none of the skaters in North America go to the 4CC the same year as the Olympics if they're named to the Olympic team. That is....well yeah. Better to start earlier and establish a name for yourself sooner. Plus the sooner they start, the longer amount of time they have to improve, polish, practice, and get used to the senior circuit so by the time 2022 comes around, they might medal.

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All very valid. I can see the value in M/C entering seniors in 2017-18 or maybe even next year just to get accustomed to the longer programs. As said, in the Olympic year the top 3 will pass on 4CC and this might give them a chance for an international showing. Hawayek and Baker's big splash year 1 in the seniors made it difficult to match year 2. Clearly the programs, particularly the SD were not suited to their style and weren't a judging favorite. I personally loved "the Theory of Everything" FD and would be happy to see a re-do this year.

I would like to see McNamara & Carpenter move up now. They proved everything they needed to prove on the junior scene this season. And Hawayek & Baker are vulnerable, coming off a tough year. M&C may wind up behind them. Perhaps it should even be expected. But M&C have the momentum so it should be a terrific opportunity to come on strong and show what they are made of. I'm not sure if they will get two spots on the GP. (I think they have as good a shot as anyone). It's just ridiculously hard winning two spots in dance right now--becoming more so every season. But I still think McNamara & Carpenter are ready for the challenge ahead. Just be prepared for obstacles & disappointments & setbacks & the long haul. But also, get excited. Never in the history of ice dance has there been so much opportunity for movement, improvement, and earning the marks you deserve when you lay down a terrific program.

Ice Dance said:

I would like to see McNamara & Carpenter move up now. They proved everything they needed to prove on the junior scene this season. And Hawayek & Baker are vulnerable, coming off a tough year. M&C may wind up behind them. Perhaps it should even be expected. But M&C have the momentum so it should be a terrific opportunity to come on strong and show what they are made of. I'm not sure if they will get two spots on the GP. (I think they have as good a shot as anyone). It's just ridiculously hard winning two spots in dance right now--becoming more so every season. But I still think McNamara & Carpenter are ready for the challenge ahead. Just be prepared for obstacles & disappointments & setbacks & the long haul. But also, get excited. Never in the history of ice dance has there been so much opportunity for movement, improvement, and earning the marks you deserve when you lay down a terrific program.

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I totally agree. I seriously can't wait to see how they'll compare to seniors. They (And the Parsons) were WAY ahead of the other juniors in terms of maturity. They LOOKED like a senior team out there.

McNamara/Carpenter are stronger technically right now, but I prefer Parson/Parson for their other qualities.

I think the best strategy for teams in a packed national field is to hit seniors in the Olympic season, because it almost ensures a 4ccs berth for the 4th, 5th, and 6th place team, and if some of the top 3 teams do well at Olympics, at least one, and perhaps two of the top 3 teams will skip Worlds as well. And then at least one team will retire, or sit out the following season.

There is a huge opportunity for a new team to earn standing points and reputation quickly.

Second best time is season before the Olympic season.