Jason Brown`s future

JayW · Oct 25, 2015

Just watched Skate America yesterday, Jason pulled off a beautiful and lyrical LP. It is packed with transitions, turns and nuances. He received a very high PCS which is totally deserving.

However, I am frustrated by his jumps. His quard is still not there, and not much flow comes out of his other jumps. I am so worried about him since I love him to death. Can he achieve steady quad(s)?

TMC · Oct 25, 2015

JayW said:
Just watched Skate America yesterday, Jason pulled off a beautiful and lyrical LP. It is packed with transitions, turns and nuances. He received a very high PCS which is totally deserving.

However, I am frustrated by his jumps. His quard is still not there, and not much flow comes out of his other jumps. I am so worried about him since I love him to death. Can he achieve steady quad(s)?

Well, at least he's heading in the right direction: This was his third competition quad, and while the first two were downgraded, this one was "only" underrotated

moriel · Oct 25, 2015

well, without quad he will not be able to medal internationally, and probably won´t be USA #1 either.
but sometimes i stop and think... i mean, does he really need to compete? he would make a great pro skater, and tons of people would watch him even if he doesn´t jump at all
kinda worried that he will end up not getting a stable quad and just wrecking himself trying.

blue_idealist · Oct 25, 2015

I agree that he probably won't get a world medal without a quad, unless the competition features a plethora of falls by the top men, but there's still hope that he can get a quad. Patrick Chan got one quite late in the game, and Shawn Sawyer was able to finally land a clean triple axel in competition near the end of his career. With the field as it is in the United States right now, JB could continue to win Nationals without the quad, I guess. Abbott's out for the season and may not return, plus he's inconsistent, Miner and Dornbush are inconsistent, Farris is out with a concussion (hopefully he'll be back by Nats though), and if Aaron makes one or two mistakes and JB does not, JB's PCs could put him above him even with no quad.

futurepupdoc · Oct 25, 2015

I have seen video of a clean quad as well as a clean quad with triple toe added. It will take some time for this to get consistently integrated into the program. IMHO as a choreographer since the level of transitions and overall choreography is so high it will take him a bit longer to achieve a clean skate. The moves he does are leg and muscle killers in a 5 minute program. As the season progresses they have someplace to go with transitions. They can take some out and still have an outstanding free skate. Some competitors start with many transitions and remove them as the season progresses untilt he program doesnt even resemble the original composition. Jason's team has historically know the best way to get the clean skate and adjusting the program accordingly without losing all of his PCS. If you look at his program and then the winner's program or silver's program he has far and away the most transitions and fewest crossovers. This makes his freeskate that much more difficult. I am a fan of all of the American men but I think Jason's team is original and he must trust their path.

tulosai · Oct 25, 2015

moriel said:
well, without quad he will not be able to medal internationally, and probably won´t be USA #1 either.
but sometimes i stop and think... i mean, does he really need to compete? he would make a great pro skater, and tons of people would watch him even if he doesn´t jump at all
kinda worried that he will end up not getting a stable quad and just wrecking himself trying.

It depends what international medals you mean, and what kind of mistakes the other men make.

I agree, as blue_idealist says, that without a quad he's not going to be able to get a world medal unless all the other men really flop, and he also skates perfectly or near perfectly, but GP medals? High level senior B medals? He absolutely can and does get those even without a quad. And let's not forget he actually almost did medal at Worlds last year without one.

As for him not being US number one... I think at the moment that seems to depend on Max Aaron and whether he can keep momentum.

Amei · Oct 25, 2015

If he wants a future of being a consistent medal contender - he needs to get the quad sooner rather than later otherwise his chances at winning will hinge on him skating perfectly and everyone else having a lot of issues.

Mrs. P · Oct 25, 2015

For your reference:

Jason Brown's Future Prospects, March 2012:

From the original post.

Jason Brown could only deliver a 2A (1 in the SP and 2 in the LP) at Junior Worlds. Had all three been 3A's, he could have run Han Yan pretty close for the gold medal. Instead, he finished 7.55 points behind Han. The difference between a triple and double axel is 5.20 in base value. Multiplied 3 times, and that amounts to 15.60. As Jason was only 7.55 points behind Han, for me the lack a triple axel has cost Jason the title. Given this, I think that if Jason is to remain competitive, he needs the triple axel in place by next season. The competition will not be standing still. They will working on upgrading their technical content, whereas Jason is already playing catch up. Jason cannot therefore afford to let another season go by without the triple axel.

Just replace "triple axel" with "quad."

And FWIW, Jason's record with Han Yan since they became seniors is 3-2. Jason beat Han at Trophee Eric Bompard in 2013, Worlds 2015 and Skate America this weekend. Han beat him at Olympics 2014 and 4CC 2015.

Also Jason Brown's Future Prospects 2.0, November 2013

slider11 · Oct 25, 2015

I am optimistic for Jason. He is 20 years old - correct? I think Kori Ade is doing a great job of developing him into a complete skater. I would much prefer this to the jumping bean teenagers who are burnt out in their 20s with multiple injuries. He should have completely grown by this point but may need a little more of core strengthening. Decent jumps with fantastic artistry is the goal!

Jammers · Oct 25, 2015

Let's not forget Nathan Chen who already is doing mulitple quads in the LP at only 16 and is consistent with his other jumps. Yes he had areas where he needs to improve but having the big jumps at his age is a huge advantage when he goes Senior. In fact watching him this year he is a Senior skater still in Juniors.

gmyers · Oct 25, 2015

IJS rewards things done to their best quality. If you don't have capability for a quad don't do it. Do a nice triple. No rotating of quads is in the horizon. Drop it!

drivingmissdaisy · Oct 25, 2015

gmyers said:
IJS rewards things done to their best quality. If you don't have capability for a quad don't do it. Do a nice triple. No rotating of quads is in the horizon. Drop it!

Agreed. We see a lot of winning programs with quads, but we also see a lot of mistakes on easier jumps in those programs. If Jason can nail 8 triples and backload some of the harder ones, it would take a near perfect program with quads for most men to beat him. Trying the quad seems to make things unravel a bit in Jason's programs.

noskates · Oct 25, 2015

I sort of get irritated when people start comparing Nathan Chen and Jason Brown. There is a huuuuuuge difference in their skating skills. Yes Nathan has the jumps but - with the exception of a consistent quad - Jason has the skating skills. Not to say that Nathan won't grow into them but comparing them now is like comparing apples and oranges. This thread was predictable. Because of the results of Skate America the assumption would be that Jason is on the downward trend. I seriously doubt that. I am going to assume that by US Nats he's going to have that quad down pat. He is generally the most consistent of the US men and that has taken him far. Predictions are like opinions - everyone has them. I'm sitting back waiting to see how this all plays out but I would never count Jason out! There isn't one man in the US or possibly out of the US that could skate Jason's program with the skill and grace and musicality he presents. Using tinkly piano music was a big risk for his team but each time I see him skate that program it's markedly better. It's still early in the season.

Mrs. P · Oct 25, 2015

drivingmissdaisy said:
Agreed. We see a lot of winning programs with quads, but we also see a lot of mistakes on easier jumps in those programs. If Jason can nail 8 triples and backload some of the harder ones, it would take a near perfect program with quads for most men to beat him. Trying the quad seems to make things unravel a bit in Jason's programs.

That's to be expected. We've seen this with the other men -- the quad, when not mastered, does tend to take the wind out of other parts of the program. Jason's situation is also complicated by the choreography of both of his programs this season.

Jason, at this point, is clearly chasing after the podium contenders, i.e. Chan, Hanyu, Fernandez, Ten (peak form of course). Even if Jason had not DG that 3A in the FS at Worlds 2015 he wouldn't have been anywhere near the podium because the top three, for the most part, hit on their programs.

So, I think the team knows they can't settle for a backloaded 8-triple program at this point.

Based on his comments and his reaction in the K&C, Kori seems to have him focused on long-term progress (i.e. peaking in 2018) for short-term losses.

whatif · Oct 25, 2015

Jason Brown still does not have a reliable 3A, so not sure what his publicist Mrs. P is trying to say here.

My prediction is that he will win few US championships, some Grand Prix events here and there but nothing really major. Spins are not enough I am afraid.

Mrs. P · Oct 25, 2015

whatif said:
Jason Brown still does not have a reliable 3A, so not sure what his publicist Mrs. P is trying to say here.

My prediction is that he will win few US championships, some Grand Prix events here and there but nothing really major. Spins are not enough I am afraid.

If only I was his publicist. It would pay way more than my current job. :laugh:

He still managed to get 4th at the World championships with that unreliable 3A, for what that's worth. Sure others messed up, but surely that's not Jason's fault, no?

whatif · Oct 25, 2015

Mrs. P said:
If only I was his publicist. It would pay way more than my current job.

Can I write you a reference, you are doing hell of a job here. :points:

Mrs. P · Oct 25, 2015

whatif said:
Can I write you a reference, you are doing hell of a job here.

That's OK. I like my current job, thanks.

xibsuarz · Oct 25, 2015

I agree that he is more than capable of winning GP medals without the quads, but for the big events, he needs them. Yes, he was 4th at Worlds, a very impressive achievement, specially considering it was his first, but he was 20 points behind Denis and Nam beat him in the FS. To compete with the guys at the top, and not only relying on their bad days, he needs at least one quad, and of course, a consistent 3A.
Jason's a very well rounded skater, the only thing that's missing is the big jump.

el henry · Oct 25, 2015

The always analytical and objective Mrs. P as Jason's publicist....

In the words of an old sitcom, I don't THINK so, Tim....

Jason wants to compete for the podium, and to do that, Jason needs a consistent quad. I would much rather watch his spins, his flow, his spirals, his footwork ... whether in the service of the peppy SPs I love or the dramatic FSs everyone else loves, with or without a quad. For Jason's sake, I hope he gets it. By all accounts, he is certainly working hard enough.
And I do love the old threads ... Jason doesn't have a 3A! Jason doesn't have this, Jason doesn't have that .... yet here he is.

Jason Brown`s future

JayW

TMC

moriel

blue_idealist

futurepupdoc

tulosai

Amei

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

slider11

Jammers

gmyers

drivingmissdaisy

noskates

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

whatif

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

whatif

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

xibsuarz

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

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