Patrick Chan ups ante on long program

Patrick Chan ups ante on long program
http://www.torontosun.com/2016/01/14/patrick-chan-ups-ante-on-long-program

This is something that Patrick needs to do and get right.

I wish him all the best.

the 25-year-old from Toronto is adding a second triple Axel to his long program, cranking up the technical difficulty for the first time in several years.

..., now has two quad jumps and two triple Axels in his long program -- the first major increase in difficulty, he said, in three or four seasons.

“From what the numbers show, adding the second triple Axel, it closes that gap quite a bit,” Chan said.

He has yet to land a second quad jump in his long program this season, he pointed out, so he hasn’t maxed out the program’s points. He’ll eventually add a quad Salchow to his arsenal, but doesn’t feel the need to rush it.

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The sentence in bold is what I was wondering about.

Chan's 3As have been steadier this season so I think he can definitely manage a second 3A.
I'm glad his fall at that show earlier was nothing serious. -Hoping for a good fight between him and Nam for the title. :thumbsup:

i have read on the fan fest that he has learned the quad salchow quite naturally a while back... however, as Patrick has mentioned, he want to bring back the technical content gradually not to overwhelm his body. He said that he wasn't expecting to do it so quickly. I just hope that he remains healthy... the second quad and axel are a huge step up for him... he used to do 2 3A before he mastered the quad...but he's never done 2 quads and 2 3A in his LP before....

I think that it will be harder for him to skate as clean as he has done all season in his LP.... but that's what it takes I guess... and I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing the 4S next fall

Crossover said:

The sentence in bold is what I was wondering about.

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After this season there's only one more year till Olympic season, if you don't start adding technically now, it'll be too late before you know it. Especially with all the young'n's having 3Ax2 and multiple quads in their LP you'll never know when they'll sudden surprise you. If you don't evolve with the sport, you'll just get left behind so its a much need move...Its good that Chan realizes this. Maybe we'll see new elements at Worlds from all the top men, Javi (2 quad SP) Yuzuru (4L) Patrick (2x 3A LP) Denis (4S??)

Well good that he started doing something with tech content, but 2nd 3A is not gonna to make too big change for now, we will see if he can manage it

Well, was about time I'm surprised he's adding both the 2nd 4T and 2nd 3A at the same time, but nationals is a good time for him to do it, so it makes sense.

The new BV with all level4's and 2x4T + 2x3A's should be 86.07. His olympic season BV for comparison was 83.67 - so a difference of 2.4 points. We'll see how much of a difference that makes, but he should be able to get above 200 now if clean.

As for the 4S, I'll believe it when I see it

Yes Forsure or he's going to find himself off the podium quite fast

I have a question. Does Patrick have any plan to change his coach to another or hire a technical coach to supplement his jump technique in the near future? I don't quite get why he keeps the current coach as he's had troubles with his triple axel.

Crossover said:

I have a question. Does Patrick have any plan to change his coach to another or hire a technical coach to supplement his jump technique in the near future? I don't quite get why he keeps the current coach as he's had troubles with his triple axel.

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His current coach helped him acquire the very consistent 4T and has helped fixed the 3A (messed up by too many comments that got into his head) such that he will be doing 2 of them in the LP for the rest of the season.

Violet Bliss said:

His current coach helped him acquire the very consistent 4T and has helped fixed the 3A (messed up by too many comments that got into his head) such that he will be doing 2 of them in the LP for the rest of the season.

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Christie Krall helped Patrick get the quad and worked on his 3a with him also. The coach he has now probably can't even tell a lutz from a flip.

Jammers said:

Christie Krall helped Patrick get the quad and worked on his 3a with him also. The coach he has now probably can't even tell a lutz from a flip.

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Why do you need to deride someone with what you don't know and untrue scornful characterization?

His current coach hasn't help chan with his quad besides showing him videos of ballet dancers and hasn't corrected his triple axel either. Apparently he sought advice from coaches during his time on the show circuit. Rafael said it best, he needs a technical coach and really dropped the ball on that.

I'm not even sure if Patrick is any longer the 3rd best skater anymore. If every male skater went clean it would be: 1) Hanyu 2&3) Fernandez or Ten 4) Patrick.

I think Patrick will catch up to Hanyu eventually. I think he learned from his big mistake back in the last Olympic Cycle. He let out his best WAY too early (2011), and let everyone get the time to catch up to him. Soon enough, he was barely hanging on to his World Title back in 2013 and Hanyu, Fernandez, Machida were the skaters putting up 2, even 3 quads. I hope Patrick will use this season to polish himself a bit more, and then use next season as a platform to launch himself into the Olympics. The reason I think he has a shot at gold in 2018 is because I feel that Hanyu may be overworking himself. I trust Orser wouldn't do that, but now is NOT the time to a quad loop, or any other quad for that matter. I think he should be comfortable where he is, he should add it either next season or the season after. I would hate so see him not get another Olympic gold.

sses1 said:

Apparently he sought advice from coaches during his time on the show circuit.

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As in Patrick looking for additional advice from other experts on his jumps? Isn't that a good thing then?
I don't see the problem with Patrick staying with Kathy - he'll have his reasons, and knows best himself what he needs from a coach after all. IMO, it would be clever to get additional help every once in a while regarding the jumps (like summer camps or something similar), because he's a top skater and those should have top advice in every aspect. But he could comfortably do that while keeping Kathy as his main coach.

Watermelondrea said:

I'm not even sure if Patrick is any longer the 3rd best skater anymore. If every male skater went clean it would be: 1) Hanyu 2&3) Fernandez or Ten 4) Patrick.

I think Patrick will catch up to Hanyu eventually. I think he learned from his big mistake back in the last Olympic Cycle. He let out his best WAY too early (2011), and let everyone get the time to catch up to him. Soon enough, he was barely hanging on to his World Title back in 2013 and Hanyu, Fernandez, Machida were the skaters putting up 2, even 3 quads. I hope Patrick will use this season to polish himself a bit more, and then use next season as a platform to launch himself into the Olympics. The reason I think he has a shot at gold in 2018 is because I feel that Hanyu may be overworking himself. I trust Orser wouldn't do that, but now is NOT the time to a quad loop, or any other quad for that matter. I think he should be comfortable where he is, he should add it either next season or the season after. I would hate so see him not get another Olympic gold.

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I'm pretty sure keeping the same difficulty and then only adding a completely new jump in the Olympic season is not what they are going to do (or should do).
Most people thought it was a bad idea too to suddenly include 2 quads in the SP at NHK - and boom, new world record, twice. Yuzu and Orser seem to be doing things right so far, so I trust they won't include the 4Lo at worlds if it's not ready. If things are working out this well this season, why not go for it - he might have whatever kind of trouble next season again anyway, no matter if he includes 4Lo now or then. It also might be a good way around all the "your current layout it nearly maxed out, how are you even going to top that?" problem. With the Olympics about 2 years away, all you can do is try your best to improve, and for Yuzu, there isn't that much room left without a new type of quad.

This is such a risky thing for him to do. I LOVE Patrick and one of the reasons is his spectacular dance ability. I'd tell him not to risk it but, this is a completely new era of skating. Especially with the Men. Hanyu and Javi are both great artistic skaters as well as being great technically. If his ultimate goal is to become Olympic Champion, and with a field as deep as it is..........he HAS to risk it. That's what Champions do. Go Patrick!!!!!

No guts, no glory; Go big or go home; Do two quads and two triple Axels or pack your satchel.

sses1 said:

His current coach hasn't help chan with his quad besides showing him videos of ballet dancers and hasn't corrected his triple axel either.

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This is a simplistic conclusion from partial information reflecting lack of understanding of technical learning and disrespect for the coaching profession. Patrick was learning 4T with Krall and her Dartfish with partial success. Johnson taught him to use his core, an extremely important concept and application for all movements, and chose a Nereyev video for illustration, which led him to absorb the lesson and come back the next day landing his quads consistently. It took technical knowledge and teaching savvy from Johnson.

As well, he will be doing 2 3As in his LP for the rest of the season. The mental issue caused by all the negative spins has been fixed with help from his current coach.

Apparently he sought advice from coaches during his time on the show circuit.

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How apparently? Who were the coaches traveling with the show circuit? Like most successful people constantly seeking to improve themselves, Patrick consults, observes, and seeks inspirations with every opportunity. But his coach remained Johnson with whom he kept in touch through his sabbatical from competition.

Rafael said it best, he needs a technical coach and really dropped the ball on that.

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Rafael puts down Patrick's coach as a choreographer, i.e. not a real coach, yet a real coach that he is has not produced any technically superior skater to rival Patrick or anywhere close.

Patrick has always had unconventional coaches from whom he benefited at various stages of his progress. After becoming the technically superior skater, he shifted his focus to the performance and artistry of figure skating with great success. But during the same time, a new wave of young jumping phenoms came on the scene to bring the technical scores to an unprecedented level. Patrick is easing back into competition and he realizes the need to up the technical ante to be competitive, which is apparent. He is keeping to his incremental long term plan just as it has been for his whole (very successful) skating career.

Johnson was a very accomplished dancer, a skating consultant, an expert in human movements, and now the coach of a 3 time World Champion who chooses to learn from her while he would have been welcomed by any coach. Currently, other than Orser, there is no other coach who can boast a student with as much success as hers. I don't see why she should be so disrespected.

Patrick knows best what he needs. If he needs a technical coach, he will get one. But, like all his other coaches, Johnson deserves credit and respect.

It means that he is much more comfortable with the 3A now, I'm glad he overcame whatever was causing trouble there. Now, he doesn't need to rely in other skaters messing up, if he skates his LP like he's been doing so far, he'll definitely be on the podium