A Mass Exodus from Eteri's Group

tulosai · Mar 11, 2016

Etri remains the most successful junior level and first year as a senior coach for ladies of this quad and arguably last. It is true that so far she hasn't had a woman really successfully develop under her at the senior level but that doesn't change the fact that what she specializes in she does VERY well. Whether she means/wants to specialize in this is maybe a different question, but if you're a junior lady in Russia I think she'd be the smart bet to be with.

I don't really think including Serafima in this discussion is productive. Her best results were actually under Etri, she fell apart after she left, and it was clear (IMO) based on statements of Sima and others close to her that the move had nothing to do with not getting along with Etri.

Perdita · Mar 11, 2016

The comment from Sambo's CEO on Adian's move.
http://rsport.ru/blog_rian/20160311/903168872.html

I don't agree with what he's saying in the end but as he suggests, there are many possible reasons for Adian to leave Sambo, financially and environmentally.

I don't know if Eteri is having a problem or not, but if she's having one, I think that's a good step for her to join one of the greatest coaches really. Like every skater, every coach do struggled at some point in their career, and normally, what they learn from those time indeed makes them greater. She's still very young as a coach even younger than Orser was when he was with Yuna.

Tutto · Mar 11, 2016

Perdita said:
The comment from Sambo's CEO on Adian's move.
http://rsport.ru/blog_rian/20160311/903168872.html

I don't agree with what he's saying in the end but as he suggests, there are many possible reasons for Adian to leave Sambo, financially and environmentally.

I don't know if Eteri is having a problem or not, but if she's having one, I think that's a good step for her to join one of the greatest coaches really. Like every skater, every coach do struggled at some point in their career, and normally, what they learn from those time indeed makes them greater. She's still very young as a coach even younger than Orser was when he was with Yuna.

I agree with you Eteri is only 42 she is relatively young for a coach and maybe lacks wisdom & experience of likes of Mishin, Moskvina etc. I think she is a slightly over ambitious, tough style coach who pushes her students to the limit and gets the results which is great and works in a short term. But not all people can work under immense pressure long term. To become a champion is great but how to get there counts too - if there isn't a nice friendly atmosphere in the group if it is all rivalries & stress, some people will leave. And thank God they can, I was reminded of the Soviet Union times when coaching changes were very problematic and the skaters were moved (or not) often against their wishes just because the fed decided so (Sambo's director is nostalgic about those times I think

)

Crossover · Mar 11, 2016

As long as Tsurskaya stays with her, she will be okay at least until the 2017-2018 season I believe.

mrrice · Mar 11, 2016

Amei said:
I doubt Evgenia had much to do with Yulia wanting to leave, from what was said at Nationals last year she had made inquiries about leaving Eteri's group and the Fed intervened...Which if true is sad for Yulia considering how much better her technique looks since moving to Urmanov in just a few months.

I think this probably true as well. I have certainly had team members who just don't get along. Skating is a lot like dance, especially once they start competing. When you teach High School aged students, in most cases they may have known and disliked each other in Junior High School. In my case, I'd get students from 2 Junior High Schools and they both had dance programs. By the time they came to me, they'd already been feuding for a couple of years. That alone can create tension.

Lastly, skating and dance can be very gossip ridden and any tension between Teacher, Parent, and Student will not stay private for long. Sometimes it's best to have a student and their Parent move on for the good of the group.

boskil · Mar 11, 2016

Don't know who is good, evil, right or wrong, but I know one thing, this is another great Russian fs drama... :drama:

One side of the story is CSKA vs other fs schools.
Renat Laishev, Sambo's CEO used heavy artillery, while commenting Adian's move, saying his school does not use (CSKA's) tactics of: "finding the best athletes and capturing them - we're raising up our pupils, not stealing them". :eek:

On the other side we have Voronov, the nicest guy ever, who's been always praising Tutberidze, claiming in several interviews Eteri is his mentor, friend and main reason he has even stayed in sports, now leaving and not mentioning Eteri's name once in his press statement. :scratch2:

Finally, we have Eteri's silence.

I'm not saying special parliament commission should investigate the happenings, but saying "some skaters just felt like leaving, nbd" is not adequate as well. :think:

Tutto · Mar 16, 2016

boskil said:
Don't know who is good, evil, right or wrong, but I know one thing, this is another great Russian fs drama...

One side of the story is CSKA vs other fs schools.
Renat Laishev, Sambo's CEO used heavy artillery, while commenting Adian's move, saying his school does not use (CSKA's) tactics of: "finding the best athletes and capturing them - we're raising up our pupils, not stealing them".
On the other side we have Voronov, the nicest guy ever, who's been always praising Tutberidze, claiming in several interviews Eteri is his mentor, friend and main reason he has even stayed in sports, now leaving and not mentioning Eteri's name once in his press statement.
Finally, we have Eteri's silence.

I'm not saying special parliament commission should investigate the happenings, but saying "some skaters just felt like leaving, nbd" is not adequate as well. :think:

I agree, that statement from Sergei was so out of character that something rather nasty must have happened between them.

I kinda half expected some sort of statement/comment from Eteri by this time but no - complete silence, may be it is her way of dealing with this situation like:
Someone left my group? Oh do tell me what their names were again..
Only Tarasova ventured since with this interview:

http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-skating/1038003410.html

Where she basically distances herself from the situation by stating that she does not know that well either Eteri or Elena (Vodorezova/Buianova) which is not true as she is very close to Vodorezova. Then praising both highly for their achievements. So far so good. But then she concludes with a parthian shot: ''Through my experience I realised that my work and the caring for my athlete stand equally high. If love is lost then it does not work. When you love you cannot part, cannot leave. That’s why there is a need for the all concerned here to think why [reasons of what happened]. Love is the energy much bigger than atomic energy . I was spared by God, the athletes have never left me''

tulosai · Mar 17, 2016

boskil said:
Don't know who is good, evil, right or wrong, but I know one thing, this is another great Russian fs drama...

One side of the story is CSKA vs other fs schools.
Renat Laishev, Sambo's CEO used heavy artillery, while commenting Adian's move, saying his school does not use (CSKA's) tactics of: "finding the best athletes and capturing them - we're raising up our pupils, not stealing them".
On the other side we have Voronov, the nicest guy ever, who's been always praising Tutberidze, claiming in several interviews Eteri is his mentor, friend and main reason he has even stayed in sports, now leaving and not mentioning Eteri's name once in his press statement.
Finally, we have Eteri's silence.

I'm not saying special parliament commission should investigate the happenings, but saying "some skaters just felt like leaving, nbd" is not adequate as well. :think:

I think quite simply that the atmosphere in Etri's group is not for everyone, and I think it is kind of a case of 'nbd', at least for her.

Even among the Russian groups (which tend to be larger and have a different atmosphere than those found in other countries generally, especially countries like America and Canada which many of us on this forum are more familiar with), Etri's group is huge. To me, this is self-evidently the root of a lot of the problems skaters end up having with her, unless it's somehow proven otherwise. In a group that size you are just NOT going to get a lot of personal ice time or attention unless you are a top world contender before a MAJOR competition in which case the focus may be more shifted toward you for like a month. If getting a lot of individual attention is something that is a high priority to you then there isn't a way for you to be happy in her group. Now there are also advantages to being in such a large group, particularly if you DO get along with the other skaters in the group and also if the older skaters are willing to mentor the younger ones somewhat. There may also be advantages to working with Etri as an individual- a skater might get along well with her, find her a good teacher/find her to explain things in a way they understand, and at this point particularly in Juniors and below I do think her skaters probably get a small bonus from being coached by her with judges. Of course a skater might not get along with her too and then this becomes a disadvantage.

With as many skaters as she has 3-4 per season leaving isn't a big deal honestly, and I am sure more than that want to join her group and are probably overjoyed when room opens. Really 3-4 leaving her is literally like 1-2 leaving another group proportionally, which would be typical and expected.

Abraxis12345 · Mar 17, 2016

tulosai said:
Even among the Russian groups (which tend to be larger and have a different atmosphere than those found in other countries generally, especially countries like America and Canada which many of us on this forum are more familiar with), Etri's group is huge. To me, this is self-evidently the root of a lot of the problems skaters end up having with her, unless it's somehow proven otherwise.
.

I think it is evident where you are in the pecking order if Adoniev or Gleigenhuz are the ones accompanying you to competitions.

stryke · Mar 18, 2016

Abraxis12345 said:
I think it is evident where you are in the pecking order if Adoniev or Gleigenhuz are the ones accompanying you to competitions.

But the skaters still get top results so it really doesn't matter. Eteri's has very knowledgeable, trustful staff members working with her skaters. All of the skaters trust them so it doesn't really make a difference.

silverfoxes · Mar 18, 2016

Adoniev hasn't worked with her team since last season, I think. He works with Tsareva's team now.

Eteri may not like to travel so much because of her daughter. With as many skaters as she has, she would be gone for most of the season if she went to every competition. It's probably just a matter of logistics, and Sergei Dudakov and Daniil seem very supportive. They are a coaching team after all - Eteri isn't working by herself, even though she gets all the heat on here any time some issue arises.

Amei · Mar 18, 2016

silverfoxes said:
. It's probably just a matter of logistics, and Sergei Dudakov and Daniil seem very supportive. They are a coaching team after all - Eteri isn't working by herself, even though she gets all the heat on here any time some issue arises.

She is the head coach of the school/team of skaters and gets the praise when they do good, so she has to take the blame when things go south

Abraxis12345 · Mar 18, 2016

silverfoxes said:
Adoniev hasn't worked with her team since last season, I think. He works with Tsareva's team now.

Eteri may not like to travel so much because of her daughter. With as many skaters as she has, she would be gone for most of the season if she went to every competition. It's probably just a matter of logistics, and Sergei Dudakov and Daniil seem very supportive. They are a coaching team after all - Eteri isn't working by herself, even though she gets all the heat on here any time some issue arises.

In most groups, the head coach almost always goes with the top students. For example, Zhulin is always with Bobrova and Soloviev, even at small, Russian Cup competitions. If it is normally the assistants with you, especially if it is the third or fourth assistant, that usually means you are not a priority.

stryke · Mar 19, 2016

Abraxis12345 said:
In most groups, the head coach almost always goes with the top students. For example, Zhulin is always with Bobrova and Soloviev, even at small, Russian Cup competitions. If it is normally the assistants with you, especially if it is the third or fourth assistant, that usually means you are not a priority.

Then I guess no one in the group has priority over another by your own definition. Eteri has not been solely alone with any of her skaters this season. Not even Evgenia.

Tutto · Mar 21, 2016

tulosai said:
With as many skaters as she has 3-4 per season leaving isn't a big deal honestly, and I am sure more than that want to join her group and are probably overjoyed when room opens. Really 3-4 leaving her is literally like 1-2 leaving another group proportionally, which would be typical and expected.

Three top senior skaters leaving in the middle of the season, all three by all accounts not amicably and you call it typical & expected?
Eteri's group can be big (18 after recent departures as far as I know) but there is only Evgenia & Polina now if to count those who already made a name for themselves. Judging by the angry response from the Sambo management they don't think it typical & expected.

Meanwhile, the interesting detail emerged - apparently Sergei asked Urmanov first but somehow it didn't work out, here is the interview with Urmanov:

http://www.sportsdaily.ru/articles/aleksej-urmanov-lipniczkaya-budet-souchastnikom-bezobraziya

'Q: Is it true that Sergei Voronov who left Eteri Tutberidze and who became the Russian Champion back in the days when he was training in St Petersburg asked you to take him?
A: Yes, it is true, only in the end Sergei is to work with Inna Goncharenko and thus there is no point in relaying the details of our negotiations.'

I understand Urmanov trained Sergei for a quite few years?

Perdita · Mar 21, 2016

There's a new interview of Yulia which tells a bit about what was going on in Eteri's group.
http://www.sport-express.ru/se-velena/reviews/979675/
You can find the translation on FSU:
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...i-didnt-know-how-to-go-on-with-my-life.98194/

I must say I'm surprised that in Eteri's group, there wasn't much guidance for skaters' physical training that Yulia found herself lacking of muscles when she joined Urmanov's team. I'm not an expert so I don't know how much of trouble that means, or how common that is in other skating clubs, but it sounds worrisome to me.

louisa05 · Mar 21, 2016

StitchMonkey said:
Well skaters are becoming senior later because they have to reach a minimum age that Tara and Michelle were not subjected to for one thing.

But youngest does not mean greatest senior debut season. Tara was younger when she won her first world title, but she was 15th her first year at senior worlds and did not win till the second. Michelle's debut was 8th, it took her till her third trip to win any medal (gold in this case).

Regardless of if Evgenia is 10, 12, 15, 20 or 25, this is still her first season as a senior and she has manged to win the GPF and Europeans, and frankly I think she will do better than 8th at worlds this year. Even a medal at your first worlds, let alone first worlds during your first year as a senior, is impressive... and she could win the gold.

So yes her senior debut is impressive, but that does no relate to her age, or her long term projections.

Kimmie Meissner won Worlds the first time she competed there. That did not translate into becoming the "greatest of all time".

Tutto · Mar 21, 2016

Perdita said:
There's a new interview of Yulia which tells a bit about what was going on in Eteri's group.
http://www.sport-express.ru/se-velena/reviews/979675/
You can find the translation on FSU:
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...i-didnt-know-how-to-go-on-with-my-life.98194/

I must say I'm surprised that in Eteri's group, there wasn't much guidance for skaters' physical training that Yulia found herself lacking of muscles when she joined Urmanov's team. I'm not an expert so I don't know how much of trouble that means, or how common that is in other skating clubs, but it sounds worrisome to me.

Yes it is a bit odd but not so uncommon not to organise off-ice training. Amazing how Evgenia manages her backloaded programs but is probably only till she is so light as Julia used to be.

I found it interesting what Yulia said about the atmosphere in the group that she was so used to a war situation in the rink that she could not believe it could be so different in Sochi and that she wants to cherish such relationship.

Amei · Mar 21, 2016

Tutto said:
Yes it is a bit odd but not so uncommon not to organise off-ice training. Amazing how Evgenia manages her backloaded programs but is probably only till she is so light as Julia used to be.

Yulia mentions the backsliding, as she did it in her Olympic year. What's concerning to me is that Eteri trains a lot of young skaters who aren't going to be as knowledgeable about strength training and that could lead to more injuries, and inadequate strength training.

mrrice · Mar 21, 2016

Here's my feeling about off ice training. It's up to the skater because, IMO, this type of training is geared solely to each individual. When I was dancing in shows, I was probably the biggest/heaviest dancer who ever worked and made money. IMO, it was because I could sing. During my brief time dancing in Vegas, the subject of "Non Company" rehearsal time came up quite often. Here's why.

In Vegas, the Ladies often dance in high heeled Character shoes and like skates, they can be quite dangerous to a partner who is lifting them.. They also wear large head pieces which makes lifting them very difficult for their partners. It's not that the dancers were heavy, the head pieces were awkward and threw you off center due to their height. Our choreographer gave us a list of exercises to help and we were expected to do them on our own time. Some dancers listened and some didn't. This is why I'm so weary of placing all the blame on the coaches.

Also, there is a natural "Let Down" at the end of a long "Successful" season. Most skaters are done before the "Big Events" get going, while all those attending Worlds are still training. Think about the skaters who didn't make it to worlds. They can basically do what ever they want to right now. Go to Disneyland, or train. It's up to them. The skaters attending Worlds will be exhausted and their off season is significantly shorter especially if they are contracted to do shows as soon as Worlds are over.

A Mass Exodus from Eteri's Group

tulosai

Perdita

Tutto

Crossover

All Hail the Queen

mrrice

boskil

Match Penalty

Tutto

tulosai

Abraxis12345

stryke

silverfoxes

Amei

Abraxis12345

stryke

Tutto

Perdita

louisa05

Tutto

Amei

mrrice

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