Why are certain skaters more consistent?

narcissa · Dec 6, 2016

Does it have to do mostly with technique? Having bad technique, i.e. a hammertoe/mule kick (i.e. Sasha Cohen) seems to make a skater much more prone to falls. Why do some skaters develop much better technique than others; is it because of their coach (and do all skaters who develop their jumps from the same coach have the same technique basically)?

Or mental toughness? I know people say Gracie has perfect technique, but her hesitation into her jumps and lack of confidence makes her more prone to falling.

Or just lack of practice? Do most top skaters basically practice the same amount - basically all day, either on-ice or off-ice training - or are some more hardworking than others?

Basically, if you were going to train a skater from 5 to become an Olympic champion, how would you want to make sure that their jumping consistency is as solid as humanly possible?

Kittosuni · Dec 6, 2016

1. Mental toughness

2. Technique/practice
3. science/medicine
4. others

Blades of Passion · Dec 6, 2016

Because they eat their vegetables.

Rissa · Dec 6, 2016

When it comes to Ladies: what Kittosuni said. I'd add body changes as well, as so many are teenagers.

When it comes to Men: I'd really like to know who that more consistent skaters are and ask them their secrets.

Although some skaters like Gracie are obvious headcases and anybody can just have bad day or be jet lagged, I'd put training/technique ahead of mental toughness. Even in Gracie's case, I vaguely remember uhhh, articles? comments? of her wanting to combine skating and life, so perhaps she's not the type to spend 8 hours at the rink everyday which might be necessary in some cases. For example, per Orser's interviews, Hanyu's last years records with two clean quad-filled back to back competitions were the result of monstruous amount of obsessive training. This season Hanyu was recommended to take it easier and his consistency and stamina isn't as good as last year's at this point. From what I heard Javier's consistency in rescent times also grew once he applied himself harder to training - apparently his relationship with Miki was the incentive, heh)

andromache · Dec 6, 2016

It seems to be that the most consistent skaters are young women, and that they tend to lose some of that consistency as they get older. Combination of body changes and just mental maturity creating more of a sense of doubt, maybe?

Some men are more consistent than others, but none are really as consistent as Evgenia Medvedeva, a young Elena Radionova, and some junior ladies.

concorde · Dec 6, 2016

Good technique is #1. If you have wonky jumps but mental toughness, then your jumps will still be inconsistent.

My firm belief is that most coaches do teach good technique. But that gets sacrificed alot the way by 1) laziness on the coaches part to correct when something is off 2) the coach not knowing exactly how to correct 3) not wanting to take the time to correct since it will impede the skater's progress and/or 4) a combination of the above.

The problem is bad technique does not become really slow down when a skater when they are just doing doubles. But when the skater moves on to triples, that is when the bad technique becomes obvious. So at the point the decision has to be made - try to work with the bad technique a skater currently has or go back and re-learn the jump starting with the single.

EdgeCall · Dec 6, 2016

Blades of Passion said:
Because they eat their vegetables.

Is this a joke or serious? :think:

cherryncy · Dec 6, 2016

For example, I do not understand Yuzuru's 3A with over 90% success rate. It isn't just about mental toughness or training, because I am sure that these two factors apply to his other jumps as well. Is it something inherent, e.g. muscle control, body type?

lyndichee · Dec 6, 2016

cherryncy said:
For example, I do not understand Yuzuru's 3A with over 90% success rate. It isn't just about mental toughness or training, because I am sure that these two factors apply to his other jumps as well. Is it something inherent, e.g. muscle control, body type?

I think it's a combination of everything. Something so well executed and consistent cannot be achieved without all the cards falling in the right place. I think it is a perfect combination of mental toughness, confidence and training. Also his body I think is better for the jump; long arms to launch in the air and his shoulders are narrow, allowing him to rotate quickly.

I remember Shae Lynn Bourne talking about choreographing for him and she said that he is an incredibly hard worker. Usually skaters water down technical elements when learning choreography but Yuzuru will throw in a 3A often where his jumps are.

Warwick360 · Dec 6, 2016

andromache said:
Some men are more consistent than others, but none are really as consistent as Evgenia Medvedeva, a young Elena Radionova, and some junior ladies.

But ladies aren't expected to do Quads and 3As. I'm sure top men could be consistent too without those two requirements. So, I wouldn't compare the consistencies of Men with Ladies.

Warwick360 · Dec 6, 2016

cherryncy said:
For example, I do not understand Yuzuru's 3A with over 90% success rate. It isn't just about mental toughness or training, because I am sure that these two factors apply to his other jumps as well. Is it something inherent, e.g. muscle control, body type?

Also the Quad toe. When things were coming at a knife's edge during Sochi (with the flip and 4S going AWOL), I knew those two jumps wouldn't let him down. I think there isn't a more shocking thing right now than if Yuzuru falls on 3A and 4T (which I know he has occasionally, shockingly), or if Medvedeva fails to land her self on the top of the podium.

Suze · Dec 6, 2016

I think it has something to do with training and work ethic. Following a strict regimen of off ice and on ice training coupled with a nutrition-packed (protein-heavy) diet and regular treatments with professional sports masseuse can keep the body strong. There's no shortcut. You have to pass on long vacations and social outings because if you are driven to be the best, you have to stay true to your plan and minimize outside distraction so you can focus each and every day. Maybe the decisions of skaters like Javier, Yuzuru and Yuna Kim to move abroad and train somewhere they could focus 100% on their skating helped them achieve success on the podium?

noidont · Dec 6, 2016

I actually think personality plays a big role. The naturally more optimistic, confident, extraverted people tend to do better in sports. Javi is one of those people. Winning or losing doesn't seem to affect his mood very much, which is rare in this sport. I don't know what sports psychologists do but a lot of personality-related issues are innate and aren't necessarily corrigible. I also don't think it's fair to say some people lack "mental strength." Not everyone is on the same level of sensitivity. Javi can train at 90% and perform 100%. Yuna Kim and Hanyu are both on the sensitive side I think. They just trained themselves at 110% capacity and hope to get out 100% in competition. Less athletically talented skaters wouldn't be able to train that much.

Ophelia · Dec 6, 2016

^Disagree with your assertion that optimistic and extroverted people tend do better. Fernandez is hot-and-cold and has a history of being splatty. He Zayaked himself out off the Olympic 2014 podium.

I think consistency comes down to 1) technique and 2) mindset, with technique being the foundation. No amount of steely nerves will help if one's technique is flawed.

Krunchii · Dec 6, 2016

There's probably a multitude of reasons so it's hard to say, maybe they're shorter with a lower centre of gravity, maybe they're mentally strong, maybe their technique makes them more consistent, maybe they're leaner. The list can go on, it's a combination of reasons. I heard recently that Yuzuru Hanyu can no longer do a 2A, that's how well trained his 3A is so he never misses.

LiamForeman · Dec 6, 2016

I'd say the number one key to consistency is sound technique and basics from the start. I used to see all these kids at the rink diving into doubles with wretched technique. Sure they were kinda sorta landing them out of sheer will, but trying to get triples and quads would seem impossible.

Number two is mental toughness. Some of us are gifted with the ability to not feel nerves, or if they do they translate that into more energy and a better performance. Whereas some who suffer from bad nerves can hardly feel their arms or legs, so good luck with that.

Number three is body type. Some people didn't hit the genetic lottery.

Number four is practice, practice, practice. But if you don't have the first three, all the practice in the world won't make you consistent.

That's just how I feel.

drivingmissdaisy · Dec 6, 2016

lilahozi said:
I think consistency comes down to 1) technique and 2) mindset, with technique being the foundation. No amount of steely nerves will help if one's technique is flawed.

I think this is a great way of putting it. Ashley seems to be someone with the right mindset but not ideal technique, while Gracie is the opposite. I wouldn't characterize either as "consistent," although they are capable of solid results.

mrrice · Dec 6, 2016

There's simply no substitute for good coaching. A coach is the one who sets the mood and instills a desire to learn and improve in their students at every practice. As a twelve year old, I had never heard of the Bolshoi Ballet and without my Ballet Teacher, I never would have. Tom Zakrajsek, may not be for everyone but, he's turned Max, a former hockey player, into a podium staple and taken an insecure, and chronic under rotating Mirai, into a skater who can land a nice looking triple axel.

Now, when I was coaching dance, I would say that one of the biggest pluses, and unfortunately, minuses, is the involvement of the Parents. I had one Mother who simply could not get her daughter to rehearsal on time. Nothing bothers me more than late students..

When these students are young they have no control over their transportation and I remember speaking to this Mom and she said, "Look, I have a life and I can't rearrange my schedule just for a dance routine!"

My response, "It's my job to rearrange routines for students who don't show up on time. If you'd like your daughter to perform, she needs to be on time, or she's out.

Biellmann · Dec 6, 2016

noidont said:
I actually think personality plays a big role. The naturally more optimistic, confident, extraverted people tend to do better in sports. Javi is one of those people. Winning or losing doesn't seem to affect his mood very much, which is rare in this sport. I don't know what sports psychologists do but a lot of personality-related issues are innate and aren't necessarily corrigible. I also don't think it's fair to say some people lack "mental strength." Not everyone is on the same level of sensitivity. Javi can train at 90% and perform 100%. Yuna Kim and Hanyu are both on the sensitive side I think. They just trained themselves at 110% capacity and hope to get out 100% in competition. Less athletically talented skaters wouldn't be able to train that much.

Since when? :scratch2:

You're talking about someone who is not able to skate two clean programs in one competition. How many competitions did he won without making at least one mistake? :rolleye:

blackey · Dec 6, 2016

no offense, but i think this is a stupid question..
it's just like asking why certain skaters are good at jump/spin/etc..
that's just the way they were born with plus the training they had, and sometimes there is really not much you can do with it.

Why are certain skaters more consistent?

narcissa

Kittosuni

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

Rissa

andromache

concorde

EdgeCall

cherryncy

lyndichee

Warwick360

Warwick360

Suze

noidont

Ophelia

Krunchii

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam

drivingmissdaisy

mrrice

Biellmann

Match Penalty

blackey

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