The Women's Competition at Marshalls

I just finished watching the ABC-TV coverage of the Marshalls figure skating competition. My comments --

Michelle Kwan - IMHO, this program needs a lot of work before it's up to Michelle's typical championship standard. It was skated slowly, with very little passion, and several of the jumps had awkward landings. This interpretation of
"Bolero" doesn't come close to matching the masterful work performed by the legendary Torvill and Dean at the 1984 Olympics to the same piece of music.
IMHO, Kwan deservedly finished second in this competition. This was not a winning performance.

Sasha Cohen - Here we go again! Skating to selections from "Nutracker", Sasha began well and showed lovely extensions and reasonably solid jumps for the first half of her program. Then, disaster struck. A fall on the triple flip, a splattering fall on a triple lutz, another fall, and one more stumble. During the second half of her program, Cohen did not land a single jump. She completed exactly two triple jumps in this program. How she received marks of 5.3 for technical merit and marks of 5.6 thru 5.8 for presentation is beyond me. IMHO, she was marked on her "potential", not on the actual performance. In my view. she was given a gift by finishing third. Granted, she's coming off another back injury, and the fact that her luggage - with her figure skates - were lost in transit and that she only was able top practice the morning of the competition - she wasn't competing under the best of circumstances. On the other hand, it's just another splatfest for Cohen. She and her coach looked a bit stunned as they saw the marks. Perhaps they were wondering, "What do we have to do to pull this off?" Good question.

Jenny Kirk skated a clean program - with only one fall - and had interesting choreography throughout. IMHO, she was robbed in that she finished below Sasha Cohen! How in the world could the judges mark Cohen's sloppy program over hers? Give me a break! While Kirk still looks - to me - like a junior skater - and she lacks the extension and flow of Cohen - she landed five triples to Cohen's two triples. Gee, doesn't that count for anything?

Irina Slutskaya skated a reasonably clean, strong program and won the competition. She is making a very strong comeback, with two GP victories and now a victory at Marshalls. Irina's jumps are still strong, with a great deal of spring, but her landings are still kind of awkward, and she still doesn't have much in the way of choregraphy, IMHO. Still, I have no major argument with her winning this competition. Kwan's best performance would have won the day, but Kwan wasn't at her best. That's the way it goes.

Angela Nikodinov had yet another unfortunate outing, with falls and mistakes. Frankly, I just don't think this girl has the confidence to skate a clean program, or at least a program that has only one mistake. She's so talented, yet she never puts it together.

Sasha Cohen is way over marked and she should be 5th. Jenny should be 3rd, Angela 4th. ABC did not show Alisa Cziney's skating but I think I know her skating level. I doubt she could do better than Angela N. Angela skated a lot better than at Cup of China.

jesslily said:

Sasha Cohen is way over marked and she should be 5th. Jenny should be 3rd, Angela 4th. ABC did not show Alisa Cziney's skating but I think I know her skating level. I doubt she could do better than Angela N. Angela skated a lot better than at Cup of China.

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I agree with you!
Slutskaya - 1st
Kwan - 2nd
Kirk - 3rd
Nikodinov - 4th
Cohen - 5th

SkateFan4Life said:

I agree with you!
Slutskaya - 1st
Kwan - 2nd
Kirk - 3rd
Nikodinov - 4th
Cohen - 5th

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Did you notice any new moves that Michelle did as was noted by some of the reports?

Michelle has new moves and her program isn't empty anymore. It seems like a whole program but hardly anyone seems to like it. I personally like it and can see how it could kick butt if she skates it like I know she can. It's hard to get the whole picture since she was really off because of her boots but I like it.

The only thing I think Michelle needs to do is add a transition into at least one jump. I kind of think she has one She does this split leaf and after that I think she's suppose to do another jump but she skipped it for obvious reasons. She felt her left foot was slipping with her boots so I don't think she felt secure out there at all.

I personally don't understand the pre-airing doom-and-gloom reports of Michelle's "Bolero". It was a tad different from Campbells, but I felt that the changes were good ones. She added new spin positions and made the footwork sequence more difficult by including many one-footed segments. Overall, I feel it is a strong program. She skated slowly and seemed distracted, but that doesn't make this a poor program. It made it a poor performance. IMHO, it is already far better than "Tosca" was at the same point in the season (I'd also include "Aranjuez" and "Schez" in that comparison, as well). I have complete confidence that this will be a stunner by March.

The only change I didn't particularly like was in the opening segment. She previously did a rolling hand movement out towards the audience that I thought was very effective at Campbells. Now, she does some turns and crossovers instead. Bring back the rolling hand movement! But, I did like the rest of the changes. She seemed a bit tenative with the new spin positions, but that is to be expected. They look great, though!

lavender said:

Michelle has new moves and her program isn't empty anymore. It seems like a whole program but hardly anyone seems to like it. I personally like it and can see how it could kick butt if she skates it like I know she can. It's hard to get the whole picture since she was really off because of her boots but I like it.

The only thing I think Michelle needs to do is add a transition into at least one jump. I kind of think she has one She does this split leaf and after that I think she's suppose to do another jump but she skipped it for obvious reasons. She felt her left foot was slipping with her boots so I don't think she felt secure out there at all.

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I just saw Michelle's program and from a lot of the reports I read, it seemed it was all doom and all that so I was expecting a bad performance. Much to my surprise (actually it shoudn't be since she's Michelle Kwan), I found she had a decent skate. She had a couple of double footed landings of course and a wonky landing on that double axel but overall, I really did not think her program was bad at all. She wasn't perfect but she wasn't terrible either as some people were making out to be. It was decent, which I was satisfied with since it's not Nationals or Worlds so I'm sure she'll be ready. Plus the commentators took notice of a problem with her boots so that must have played a factor with a couple of those jumps. Plus she didn't seem flat to me either but I guess it all depends on a person's perception. I did note the new spin she did, actually a couple. The ending footwork was changed, which I don't like but maybe it'll grow on me.

Maybe the program is growing on me as well but I'm liking it a little more than Campbell's. I'm sure by Nationals she will adjust the needed improvements as that is a given for the most part.

As for Sasha, I have to agree she was overmarked. Ok yes she has beautiful lines (which I wasn't mesmirized by until after her falls) and all that but she had 3 consecutive falls and her 2nd jump that she fell on (the 3 lutez) disrupted the program so how in the world she got 5.7s in presentation is lost on me as well as 5.3s for her technical mark. Furthermore, she had a wonky landing on her double axel and she front loaded her jumps.

Overall, I'm glad Irina won. She won it based on a great performance. I'm happy for her and happy that she and Michelle are able to have a rivalry again Moscows is gonna be a great competition.

I was really happy with the changes that Michelle made. I don't think the program can really be called "empty" anymore, even though I didn't exactly agree with that assertation about previous programs. However, Bolero does have noticeably more "stuff" going on.

Here's what I liked:

1) The difficult footwork, even though it was a bit slow. Both directions, lots of one foot steps etc.

2) The spin changes were a huge improvement. Her combo spins especially doing forward and back camels and sit spins plus a funky upright spin variation. I also liked the sit position after the flying camel.

3) There were more small turns and transitions added, not that they were all that difficult but they give the program a more detailed look.

4) Spiral change of edge was HELD, which will give her Level 3. Pretty much gimme points for Kwan.

Problem areas:

1) Mostly the jumps. I think it was the boots. When was the last time Kwan missed a sal?

2) I want to see the death drop go to a Y-spin.

3) If she did a SFL into a 3 toe, I would die and go to heaven. :yes:

Michelle's boots? Somebody is always making excuses for Michelle. She was as slow as a turtle and arms flapping like a bird. Irena deserved to come first and she will be first at worlds. Give Sasha a break!!!! I predict that she will come in second at Worlds. Michelle?Michelle? Michelle?

millie said:

Michelle's boots? Somebody is always making excuses for Michelle. She was as slow as a turtle and arms flapping like a bird. Irena deserved to come first and she will be first at worlds. Give Sasha a break!!!! I predict that she will come in second at Worlds. Michelle?Michelle? Michelle?

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Uh hello? Michelle wasn't using the boots as an excuse for her performance. And besides, the skate she had was not tyical being the fact she's a consistent skater the majority of the time. I wasn't making up an excuse. Merely stating a fact. If you were watching her before she started skating and listening to the commentators and reading the reports, you would know the boots did play a part given how she's usually consistent with her jumps, unlike Sasha, who had 3 falls this time. Remember she's had only one clean long program so her inconsistency speaks volumes. I don't think most people are denying Irina won fair and square. If anything, more concern should be for how Sasha did.

millie said:

Michelle's boots? Somebody is always making excuses for Michelle. She was as slow as a turtle and arms flapping like a bird. Irena deserved to come first and she will be first at worlds. Give Sasha a break!!!! I predict that she will come in second at Worlds. Michelle?Michelle? Michelle?

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Did you miss Michelle stripping off her boot two minutes before the end of warmup? A skater wouldn't do that unless there was a problem.

But I should give Sasha a break? Who landed more triples in both cheesefests, Michelle or Sasha?

SkateFan4Life said:

Angela Nikodinov had yet another unfortunate outing, with falls and mistakes. Frankly, I just don't think this girl has the confidence to skate a clean program, or at least a program that has only one mistake. She's so talented, yet she never puts it together.

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Well, I guess the judges agreed. They put Angela last. They must have seen some phantom falls that I missed both when I saw it live and just now on television. Did anyone else see Angela fall? The only mistakes that I saw were one doubled jump and a single Axel instead of a double.

Overall, however, Angela did not sell her program. She just looked sad-sack out there. She needs some "Ta-da!" Still, I too put her fourth.

Alissa Czisny, BTW, skated pretty well, but had two falls. Her skating is very lovely but lacks maturity. I think she landed four triples.

For several skaters I got a different perspective seeing the competition on TV versus the live show. (I know this is the ladies thread, but I'll mention the men , too).

Johnny Weir looked much better on TV than live. On TV, take away the two falls and his performance wasn't bad. Live, he just looked unhappy throughout.

Brian Joubert. Fire coach Yagudin today! Trying to copy that cutie-pie footwork just looks ridiculous. (Equally bad live and on TV. Graziev (who they mercifully didn't show) -- same advice.)

Michelle looked better on TV than live, IMO. Live, for whatever reason -- equipment problems or what -- she clearly just wasn't into the program. On TV, it didn't look so bad -- just a little slow and lifeless. Also on TV the new positions on her spins were much easier to see, for me.

Sasha looked worse on TV than live. Live, despite the mistakes she did some good things, too. On TV her performance just stunk, IMHO.

Best TV moment -- the look on Evan Lysacek's face as he was watching Plushenko's performance.

Mathman

PS. IMO Irina always looks much better live than on TV. In fact, I was never a big fan of her skating until I got to see it live. On TV, her positions do not look very graceful and her jump landings lack flow. But live, these flaws are swept away by her speed and power and by her command of the whole ice surface.

I don't think of these comps as real medal winnings.

Irina has a lot going for her with this program. It is sooo CoP oriented, the points are going to be sooo difficult to beat by other competitors. As a show piece, however, it bores me.

Michelle is, imo, lagging way behind Irina for the CoP scoring. There is a semblance of a routine to Bolero but it still needs mucho fine tuning. One thing, her spins are looking good and she is jumping higher, and the routine is fuller.

Jenny is sooo much better than she has been for a while. The Nichol choreography is just what she needed, and the jumps are looking good.

Angela, I'm convinced, can not skate well in front of an audience.

Sasha has a very nice routine, albeit 'standard Sasha'. Nothing showing as different from last year. Her romance with Tschaikowsky works for her but I would like to see her take on a Bela Bartok number just to see if she is versatile.
When she hits all those jumps her scores will rise and may threaten Irina.

Unfortunaely, missed Weir and Lysacek skates due to a talkative neighbor.

Joubert is a very sad case this season, even in this fluff competition. He's got to make his move in Euros when he faces Stephane!!! Like Sasha, he doesn't deserve the scores he is getting.

Jahnke gave a much better performance than the Santa Maria but, you know the judges in this 6.0 system.

Evgeni is an untouchable this year. Over and out.

Joe

other skaters

I didn't see Angela fall either. She has a very boring program but I still would have had her in ahead of Sasha some how.

Jenny should have been ahead of Sasha also. Nice music but she doesn't really have a difficult program. Did she have footwork?

Irina's.. great speed and jumps but I don't like her program. However she will get the points.

Men

Plushy much better spins and no sloooww Beilman for once. Good program but I think a bit too frantic at times.

Evan I like a lot more this year. No flailing arms and nice choreography though slower than it could be. Nice little tap dance bit; wish he would do more of it and sustain character through end of program.

Weir's jumps float effortlessly; cannot see why he is quadless. Looked as though he was skating on last legs and believed it when he said he was tired.
Contrast between him and Evan interesting. Johny much more mature skater.

Joubert was a bore and should have been placed behind Weir. Yags footwork looks so cheesey on him but then again it was a cheesefest. If Lambiel is healthy by Euporeans he will cream Joubert (to keep the dairy metaphor going).


Women

Irina is so athletic and I cannot believe she is back almost full force. So happy for her. Program COP loaded but choreography left me cold.

Michelle seemed so preoccupied and not her usual engaging self. Program I think is pretty good and certainly trying to woo COP points. Not there yet but I'm sure will be by Nats. Don't like the ending and think she is flirting with another time deduction.

Sasha would have been fine had she not body slammed the ice so often. I like this program; it's classic Sasha. Glad she ditched the Morozov footwork from last year. Don't count her out just yet. P.S. Hate that last spin. Thought she had dumped it from her rep but it's baaack.

Jenny has improved with Lori's choreography. Potentially best LP for her ever.

Angela seems to cover a lot of ice on her jumps. Also seemed to be in better frame of mind. I think she is going to get screwed at Nats, though.

yelyoh said:

... but then again it was a cheesefest. If Lambiel is healthy by Euporeans he will cream Joubert (to keep the dairy metaphor going).

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I love reading this board!

MM

I know it was a cheesefest, so lots of fluff pieces were expected, but it was too much this time! I wanted to see Alissa Czisny skate in front of the home crowd but instead I got 3 mentions about Irina-Michelle rivalry going back to 1994, and at least 6 mentions of how sick Irina has been since 2003. Who in the world produces these programs? They should be so fired! If they must show only the well-known skaters, at least give Terry something else to say for a change to fill up the time!!!!

Also think that Sasha was so overmarked!

Yana