Women's programs outside of the box

[4everchan]

Yes, I love the French in figure skating in general.

I guess I could make my points clearer when I would have a video show and would point at the movements. I think a lot is in the movements of the hands, the tilting of the head... like, of course Janet Jackson per se is not what I'm looking for, but the way this program is done, the choreo combined with Kaori's way of moving is different - but like I said, for me that's a bit of an in-between program. About Bonaly I agree with your checklist - that's why I said often they are just different in one aspect.

Kaori is just awesome but see, I could propose the following argument.
Kaori is skating like a very strong emancipated woman. She's the ultimate role model for what femininity in figure skating could look like in the 21st century

I think a lot of this is cultural. Then some is personal perspective or perception. It's quite hard to pin point.

 

[MiraiFan]

Kaori Sakamoto's No More Fight Left In Me

⸠Sakamoto Kaori's #Beijing2022 free program!

ð² Subscribe to @olympics: http://oly.ch/Subscribe Check out Sakamoto Kaori's incredible free program routine at the 2022 Olympics in Beijing. Enjoy watchin...

youtu.be

I'm aware the program got mixed reviews, but it is one of my favourite women's programs and it kind of fits into this thread on multiple levels.

I too LOVED the program. The loop on the music near the end of the program--amazing. Just so well put together and skater beautifully.

 

[gkelly]

When you talk about the choreography being traditional, are you talking about the choice of elements (to layback or not to layback)?

Or more about the movement qualities, body movements and positions, use of the gaze, etc. during transitional moves and within elements?

Can laybacks and spiral sequences be performed in ways that read as aggressive, angular, creatively playful with edges and body positions, even "masculine"?

Certainly programs that do not include these elements can be thoroughly beautiful, lyrical, feminine throughout the other elements.

 

[icewhite]

When you talk about the choreography being traditional, are you talking about the choice of elements (to layback or not to layback)?

Or more about the movement qualities, body movements and positions, use of the gaze, etc. during transitional moves and within elements?

Can laybacks and spiral sequences be performed in ways that read as aggressive, angular, creatively playful with edges and body positions, even "masculine"?

Certainly programs that do not include these elements can be thoroughly beautiful, lyrical, feminine throughout the other elements.

Of course, no, it's not in the individual elements, it's in the picture as a whole, the entire choreography including detailed movement of fingers, even the aura of the whole program.

And I want to say I got nothing against traditional per se, if there are one or two programs of an ice princess with a tiara and a very sparkly sweet dress to One day I'll fly away and Clair de Lune I can enjoy that. I just want to see more of a balance overall and variety.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

Kaori is skating like a very strong emancipated woman. She's the ultimate role model for what femininity in figure skating could look like in the 21st century

Yes, she is.
What sets Kaori's programs apart in my eyes is that most of them are still stylistically different and unique enough to be considered outside the box on their own merits. Whereas, to stay with our previous example, Katia's programs (disregarding this season) imo are all so similar that they could fill a whole box all by themselves.

 

[4everchan]

Yes, she is.
What sets Kaori's programs apart in my eyes is that most of them are still stylistically different and unique enough to be considered outside the box on their own merits. Whereas, to stay with our previous example, Katia's programs (disregarding this season) imo are all so similar that they could fill a whole box all by themselves.

haha but Katia's box is not everyone's box and she's alone in that box We give a lot of props to Korean women for their beautiful dresses and headpieces. That box is full of skaters though (and not just from Korea.

Then you have Loena's box... there have been skaters displaying that feminine image over the years... Witt was mentioned as daring in this thread but she also was in that sexy woman box quite often herself.

So many boxes.... I actually don't like this image of putting women in boxes... so forgive me for how this post is written. I think you can understand what I am after.

In the end, the OP prefers a style of skating, would like to see it more, and wonders why we can't have it all.

I sympathize with the OP. She would like less stereotypical women skating. I would like more skaters to master the blade as Chan did. There may be more variety in men's skating... but right now, it's becoming more and more and more about the exotic quad box. Too bad.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

I actually don't like this image of putting women in boxes

You are right, it is not a good image at all. Forgive me for the word-play, I blame it on being a CKL, and all my cats love being put into boxes.

 

[gkelly]

We could talk about the various boxes that male skaters put themselves into. Separate thread?

 

[icewhite]

We could talk about the various boxes that male skaters put themselves into. Separate thread?

Surely possible to discuss this, but I really find the issue more pressing in women's. But if you open a thread, I'll discuss.

 

[Seven Sisters]

@icewhite One person's box is another's open horizon. Which programs, of those mentioned, do feel are outside the box?

It would help to know to what we are looking for, because this thread isn't about programs we enjoyed, or programs about skaters we always liked.

Out of the OP’s original list, the only one I would consider truly out of the box is Lara Naki Gutmann’s Hitchcock.

I’d love to see more women work outside the usual princess/sexy-dramatic/kittenish/weepy ballad boxes, though. I’d especially like to see women who are themselves a bit untraditional—looking at you, Amber Glenn—lead the way in this!

 

[ladyjane]

Elizaveta Tuktamysheva - Freedom

Elizaveta Tuktamysheva - 1TV Trophy 2022 - SP / ТÑкÑамÑÑева - ÐÑбок ÐеÑвого - ÐÐ - 26-03-2022

ÐлизавеÑа ТÑкÑамÑÑева, коÑоÑÐºÐ°Ñ Ð¿ÑогÑамма, Freedom, ÐÑбок ÐеÑвого канала 2022 года, 26 маÑÑа 2022, СаÑанÑк, ÑÑемка Ñ ÑÑибÑн.#elizavetatuktamysheva #елизавеÑ...

youtu.be

Unfortunately she skated it only once in competition.

Thank you @AlexBreeze. It was lovely to see Elizaveta again whom in my view is very much not a typical female skater. She might dress very feminine so possibly not 'outside the box' enough, but she certainly is one of the few women I really just love to watch!

 

[lileychristie]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Mao Shimada's SP this season to Americano:


She is definitely not being an ice princess there. Not delicate ice princess, sexy ice princess or weepy ice princess. She's being Mao, the mischievous and head-strong Mao.

Kaitlyn Weaver choreographed the program and she said, on this GS interview, that she was inspired by a legend of a young Mexican rebel woman who fought for justice in her community.

Shimada, who wanted to try something new for the short program, worked with three-time World medalist ice dancer Kaitlyn Weaver in Japan during May.

"Creating Mao's new short program has been a heartfelt honour," said Weaver. "I was looking forward to getting to know her personally, and I'm excited by her ambition and youthful energy. Together, we were able to channel that into her new program."

Weaver said she was inspired by the story of "La Carambada" the legend of a young, Mexican rebel woman who fought for justice in her community.

"I love seeing Mao's mischievous character on the ice begin to grow as she becomes more comfortable with the piece," said Weaver.

And of course, her costume there is definitely 'out of the box' as well, though I recall reading in competition thread that the OP actually hated the costume But, how can we encourage more 'out of the box' costumes if every attempt in making one is shot down as "not pretty"!?

I really love this program myself. I love that this program allows Mao to be herself - for me the most empowering program for skaters are ones that allow their own personality to shine without being forced into a box And for the record, if a skater really loves certain kind of styles I have no problem with them doing it many times. Yes, I'm a fan of Loena and how unapologetic she is - she definitely loves performing as 'sexy ice queen' and couldn't care less what people think of it. It's only wrong when skaters feel pressured that they have to be an 'ice princess' in order to get good PCS marks from the judges.

 

[Carol1]

This is an ice dance program but I think Bobrova's performance and interpretation in it fulfills the criteria for this thread.

BOBROVA SOLOVIEV OD NHK Trophy 2009

www.youtube.com

Strongly agree with the earlier posts mentioning Giada Russo. Seeing her Red Violin program live in Bratislava was a tremendous privilege.

 

[icewhite]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Mao Shimada's SP this season to Americano:


She is definitely not being an ice princess there. Not delicate ice princess, sexy ice princess or weepy ice princess. She's being Mao, the mischievous and head-strong Mao.

Kaitlyn Weaver choreographed the program and she said, on this GS interview, that she was inspired by a legend of a young Mexican rebel woman who fought for justice in her community.


And of course, her costume there is definitely 'out of the box' as well, though I recall reading in competition thread that the OP actually hated the costume But, how can we encourage more 'out of the box' costumes if every attempt in making one is shot down as "not pretty"!?

I really love this program myself. I love that this program allows Mao to be herself - for me the most empowering program for skaters are ones that allow their own personality to shine without being forced into a box And for the record, if a skater really loves certain kind of styles I have no problem with them doing it many times. Yes, I'm a fan of Loena and how unapologetic she is - she definitely loves performing as 'sexy ice queen' and couldn't care less what people think of it. It's only wrong when skaters feel pressured that they have to be an 'ice princess' in order to get good PCS marks from the judges.

I did indeed complain about that costume.
Nothing to take too seriously, I just love to play the fashion critic and complain about at least half of the costumes.
In this case I think the costume makes her look like a toddler. I love the music choice (although I found it problematic that she's a junior and didn't want to skate to it at first), and okay, inspired by a rebel, but all the glitter and the magenta sash don't look like a rebel at all, it seems to ridicule the whole idea - but that happens to a lot of costumes in figure skating when they are inspired by a more historic or original outfit and then, because it's figure skating, it's plastered with glitter and somehow the sports materials often make it look very cheap.

 

[Yogi]

You’re a Mean One Mr Grinch
Mana Kawabe

 

[AlexBreeze]

Sofia Samodurova — The Man with the Harmonica

VK.com | VK

vk.com

 

[Jontor]

And, of course I have to add to this thread

Maria Talalaikina - Maleficent

One of the best programs besides Lara's Hitchcock in recent years.

 

[AlexBreeze]

And, of course I have to add to this thread

Maria Talalaikina - Maleficent

One of the best programs besides Lara's Hitchcock in recent years.

I thought about mentioning it!

Maria Talalaikina - Russian Cup Final 2021 - FS / Талалайкина - Финал ÐÑбка РоÑÑии - ÐÐ - 28.02.2021

ÐаÑÐ¸Ñ Ð¢Ð°Ð»Ð°Ð»Ð°Ð¹ÐºÐ¸Ð½Ð°, Финал ÐÑбка РоÑÑии по ÑигÑÑÐ½Ð¾Ð¼Ñ ÐºÐ°ÑÐ°Ð½Ð¸Ñ 2021, пÑоизволÑÐ½Ð°Ñ Ð¿ÑогÑамма, 28 ÑевÑÐ°Ð»Ñ 2021, ÐоÑква.0:00 - warmup / Ñазминка1:50 - Free Skate / ...

youtu.be

 

[Jontor]

I thought about mentioning it!

Maria Talalaikina - Russian Cup Final 2021 - FS / Талалайкина - Финал ÐÑбка РоÑÑии - ÐÐ - 28.02.2021

ÐаÑÐ¸Ñ Ð¢Ð°Ð»Ð°Ð»Ð°Ð¹ÐºÐ¸Ð½Ð°, Финал ÐÑбка РоÑÑии по ÑигÑÑÐ½Ð¾Ð¼Ñ ÐºÐ°ÑÐ°Ð½Ð¸Ñ 2021, пÑоизволÑÐ½Ð°Ñ Ð¿ÑогÑамма, 28 ÑевÑÐ°Ð»Ñ 2021, ÐоÑква.0:00 - warmup / Ñазминка1:50 - Free Skate / ...

youtu.be

Yay Alex! I was searching for her best performance of this, which was at Nationals 3 years ago, but I couldn't find it anymore.

But this performance is also great. I just love the outside-of-the-box music choice here, and the choreo is great too. I believe Alena Leonova choreographed this?

It's such a pity the international audience never got to see this.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Stephanie Rosenthal
Robot SP

Stephanie Rosenthal - 06 Nationals SP

Stephanie Rosenthal - 06 Nationals SP

youtu.be

This was the very first one that came to mind, and for me, one of the most unique/outside the box competitive programs ever. There is no skater who could pull this off other than her. It’s just iconic.