Ladies Free Skate

Doggygirl · Jan 29, 2005

ITA Hikaru that we are dealing with limited info at the moment...

Hikaru said:
It's very hard to make an opinion only listening to the comments, although anyways, I'm not an expert in FS to say if the PCS are correct or not. What I do know, is that in previous competitions Irina had scored very high 7point marks (like 7.75 and such), and in this one it was a low 7point mark (around 7.23). Not a huge difference, but of course, that is the trimmed mean, and I guess that reflects the overall score given by the judges. I hope they post the scor pages to see in detail what the judges gave.

LOL, I guess that's why I'm taking a step back from all the wuzzrobbing on other boards. It's NOT all about jumps anymore, so I'm interested in digesting the actual scores (and like you, can't wait for the full detailed scores) rather than jump to conclusions that anyone wuz robbed.

Mean time, I'm THRILLED for Poykio, and with I could be THERE celebrating in person with all the Finnish FS fans!!

DG

show 42 · Jan 29, 2005

Way to go Susanna!!!! Can't wait to see this televised........... :agree: 42

JonnyCoop · Jan 29, 2005

Matt said:
Congrats to Susanna Pöykiö! She is really one of the most underated and undermarked in FS today, IMO, and it's nice to see her finally up where she belongs in the standings.

Is she really the first Finnish lady to win a medal at Europeans (somehow I thought Kristina Wegelius won a medal at Euros back in the 1980s)? If she is, then that is fantastic for the Finnish programme and Finland in general, especially going into Worlds (IIRC, Pöykiö has finished in the top 6 or close to it the past few years).

ITA agree about Susanna; she is really having a great year. I'm glad to see Liashenko on the podium, too, since she has NOT been having a great year....

Wegelius came close to a Euros medal on a few occasions, but never actually won one. She was one of those who was very strong in figures, but tended to drop once the SP and free got underway. (Though she did skate beautifully at Skate America in '82) It has always been my assertion that had Wegelius stuck around one more year, for the Sarajevo Olys, she would have been the bronze medallist there. After all, apparently all you needed to win the bronze in Sarajevo was good figures and free skating on the high end of medicore, which is what Kira Ivanova displayed (tho to say the "high end" of medicore would be charitable in her case at that competition, tho she did get better in subsequent seasons.) Wegelius would have probably been top 3 in figures (Ivanova was 5th) and if she was having a good week, she would have skated SP and free AT LEAST as well as Ivanova.

Also congrats to Roxana Luca on 15th place -- this, for her, is a HUGE DEAL.

Joesitz (RIP) · Jan 29, 2005

It's been a long time since Dortmund where Susanna did not get the scores she deserved. Very happy she is Finland's first Euros medalist (silver). Now should she be added to the Gang of 4 at Worlds?

Joe

nicole_l · Jan 29, 2005

Now should she be added to the Gang of 4 at Worlds?

If by that do you think that she's a medal contender? Honestly, no, I don't. But I definitely think that's she's going to be in at least the top 7 or 8.

thisthingcalledlove · Jan 29, 2005

Congratulations to Irina Slutskaya!

I'm amazed- the "older" generation of figure skating seems to be winning left and right, and tying records.

(Shizuka can be counted on the "older" generation) Hurray for anyone over the age of twenty-two and still winning in skating!

jan · Jan 29, 2005

I think it is amusing that up to a couple of years ago Irina was known for her technical difficulty;now when that has gone such as what happened at the Europeans today all of a sudden her PCS are huge...They have been huge all year. Her long program is completed filled with Beillman spins and spirals;she is hunched over and she telegraphs the jumps!!! For some unknown reason she is now an" Artistic skater" or she is being held up.. I am not yet convinced of this new scoring system. Worlds will tell the tale.

LilyBerg · Jan 29, 2005

thisthingcalledlove said:
Congratulations to Irina Slutskaya!

I'm amazed- the "older" generation of figure skating seems to be winning left and right, and tying records.

(Shizuka can be counted on the "older" generation) Hurray for anyone over the age of twenty-two and still winning in skating!

I can only agree with you. :agree: And I am so happy for Susanna! :love:

Hikaru · Jan 29, 2005

The scores pages are in!

here's the link of the score pages for the ladies free skate:

http://www.isufs.org/results/ec2005/EC05_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

For Irina it says she made a 3lz, the a 1S and a 2loop (If I remember correctly, in previous competitions she was doing a combo, 3S-2lo-2toe, so she just popped the first, and couldn't get it in combo with the 2lo?). Spins were graded between level 2 and 3, the spiral sequence and straight-line sequence were were level 3 and 1 respectively. She had a lutz combo plan, but that's were she had a fall, as you can see the 1 point deduction plus the -3GoE.

As for the PCS, we've got:

Skating Skills: most of the scores were between 6.75 and 7.50, which I think is about right (that would be an "above average" to "good"), there were only 2 judges that on that area gave her a 7.75 and an 8.00, but even if one of those scores was taken into account, it would have been eliminated as being the highest ones.

Transitions/linking steps: the majority of the judges gave scores between 6.50 and 6.75, wereas the others were 7.25. Two judges gave her a 7.75 and a 7.50

Performance/Execution: the scores were between 7.00 and one 8.00. The lowest mark was a 6.75. From the score sheet, I think it is fare, although because she had one jump failed, and some triples ended up being doubles or singles (I don't remember if there is a deduction for that in the FS or not), but since the rest of the elements such as spins and spirals have such a high level, maybe a 7.00 was a fair score. I'd still would like to see the competition to make my mind on this, but this is what I think just by reading the score sheet.

Choreography/Composition: the scores were around 6.75 and 7.00, a few 7.50 and 7.75.

Interpretation: scores mostly between 7.00 and 7.50, the highest was one 7,75 and the lowest 6.75

Doggygirl · Jan 29, 2005

Here's a little COP analysis on the TECH side...

I decided today that it was high time I start REALLY studying COP. So I printed off a bunch of documents and tried to do some analysis. Please let me know if you do similar math, but find flaws in mine. I'm much more comfortable with the final outcome now that I did this math, at least on the Tech side.

Irina:

Total Base Value All Elements: 45.5
Actual Score with GOE: 47.16

Base Value - Jumps (7 scored): 29.4
Actual Score - Jumps with GOE: 27.51 (this does not count the 1.0 ded for the fall subtracted from the overall score)

Base Value - Other (6 scored): 16.10
Actual Score - Other with GOE: 19.65

Susanna:

Total Base Value: 47.0
Actual Score with GOE: 49.21

Base Value - Jumps (7 scored): 33.0
Actual Score - Jumps with GOE: 34.29

Base Value - Other (6 scored): 14.00
Actual Score - Other with GOE: 14.92

I think this explains quite a bit. Susanna did in fact score much better than Irina in the jump category, both in base value and GOE. (34.29 compared to Irina's 26.51 inc. the ded. for the fall).

Irina outscored Susanna on the "other elements" in both base value and GOE. As Hikaru already pointed out, Irina was given higher levels of difficulty overall for the other elements which explains the difference in base values for "other."

I could only listen to the commentary during these performances. My opinion could change once I get to watch. But based on what I heard (sans the emotion when Irina was still in the lead after a less than stellar free) this seems about right to me.

HOCKEYFAN!! You are my COP teacher, so if you read this please comment on whether you think I'm finally starting to "get it" LOL!

DG

mzheng · Jan 29, 2005

Congrats to Susanna Pöykiö for her first Euro medal.

ABC chalked her winning LP at SA. I hope this time we got to see her next wee.

WTG Poykio.

jan · Jan 29, 2005

1. Slutskaya
Wonderland/card dealer. Lackuster performance, off from the beginning. 3z bit sloppy not good run out, telegraphed popped 1s, tried to throw in a loop but doubled - 2r, butterfiles to back camel to Biellmann, 3f fall, layback to Biellmann 16 revs, now trademark spiral sequence with three Biellmann positions, 3f, 3t2t, back camel to Biellmann, 2a, fast str step with lots of turns and deep edges, final trademark comb spin with changes of edge and Biellmann but missed the Biellmann position on back half. Seemed held up in components, a sloppy and rushed performance.

Irina is getting a lot of bonus points for her Beillman position but judging from this report this many Beillmans must affect her variety and as a result her choreography. She is maximizing her points in the TES but with what such be a trade off in the PCS scores!

Doggygirl · Jan 29, 2005

Hi Jan...

I'm personally among the crowd where the Biellman position is not my favorite. BUT...it seems apparent that it is a difficult position relative to others, hence Irina's TES base values on non-jump elements.

Yikes. I guess that means we might be in for a lot more Biellman's in the coming years......

DG

herios · Jan 29, 2005

JonnyCoop said:
ITA agree about Susanna; she is really having a great year. I'm glad to see Liashenko on the podium, too, since she has NOT been having a great year....

Also congrats to Roxana Luca on 15th place -- this, for her, is a HUGE DEAL.

I found this quite funny that Liashenko was the best in the technical aspect of the FS, while she dropped her 3 loop more than a few years ago.

I am thrilled for Susanna, she deserves much better PCS marks in comparison with others, but the judges are just monkeys, once they will start seeing her more often up there, they will give her more credit. Actually the process already started, after her SP, where she got lower marks than Liashenko in PCS, who has been around for many years, right in the LP she got credited with higher PCS marks, than Liashenko, and that kept her above Elena.

In respect to Roxana Luca, Jonny, do you have any ties to Roxana's country? (because I do, and there are not too many fans around.....from that part of the world, just curious).

Herios - Joseph

Doggygirl · Jan 29, 2005

MORE on Irina and COP Analysis

Irina's personal best free skate score was from Cup of Russia, which was (rounded) about 18 points higher than her less than stellar free skate today. So where did the 18 point difference come from?

JUMPS.

Base value for jumps at COR: 43.5 (today was 29.4)
Actual jump score with GOE at COR: 45.5 (today was 26.51 inc. the 1 pt. ded. for fall)

There is the 18 points.

Her other elements were scored similarly today in both base value and actual (with GOE) and her PCS were about 2.5 points lower today.

This seems consistent with most of the reports I've read and heard about her skate.

Lot's of people (other boards) seem to be harping that she was held up in spite of her jumps. It looks to me like the only meaningful score difference was EXACTLY related to the jumps. Let's face it - overall skating skills take years to develop, and while I think it's an area for COP scrutiny in the future, this result seems to penalize Irina for her poor jump performance, precisely.

Other opinions?

DG

herios · Jan 29, 2005

Joesitz said:
It's been a long time since Dortmund where Susanna did not get the scores she deserved. Very happy she is Finland's first Euros medalist (silver). Now should she be added to the Gang of 4 at Worlds?

Joe

Joe, who is part of the Gang of 4 ????? (Irina, Shizuka, Joannie, Miki, Michelle, Sasha), I thought there were about 6 ??

Now, of course, Michelle and Sasha were not part of the scene this past fall, but who did you consider not part of the Gang??

And by the way, if you are to add Susanna, you might well need to add Elena, who was a big surprise for me, how well she skated this week.

Herios - Joseph

RealtorGal · Jan 29, 2005

Just goes to show you that Irina is vulnerable. I wouldn't be hanging that World gold medal around her neck just yet. :biggrin:

Jaana · Jan 29, 2005

Matt said:
Is she really the first Finnish lady to win a medal at Europeans (somehow I thought Kristina Wegelius won a medal at Euros back in the 1980s)? If she is, then that is fantastic for the Finnish programme and Finland in general, especially going into Worlds (IIRC, Pöykiö has finished in the top 6 or close to it the past few years).

Fourth was Wegelius´ best placement in international big competitions.

JonnyCoop · Jan 29, 2005

herios said:
In respect to Roxana Luca, Jonny, do you have any ties to Roxana's country? (because I do, and there are not too many fans around.....from that part of the world, just curious).

Herios - Joseph

No ties to Romania, but I saw Roxana skate in the qualifying round at the 2001 Worlds (she didn't make the SP cut) and though I thought she was a bit slow, there was a certain quality and musical sense to her skating that intrigued me and I was hoping she'd at least make the cut so I could see her short program. Since then, I've kind of kept on eye on her results; I'm always glad to see someone from the lower ranks whose skating I like make a move up in the standings.

Mathman · Jan 29, 2005

RealtorGal said:
Just goes to show you that Irina is vulnerable. I wouldn't be hanging that World gold medal around her neck just yet.

I wonder if she felt a little burned out from doing all those Grand Prix events. Her free skate at Russian Nationals was not up to the standard that she set in the Fall season, either.

On a thread in the Edge we are debating whether the full Grand Prix, plus Nationals, Europeans and Worlds, is too much, or whether it might be a better stategy to lay low and peak for the major events at the end of the season.

Last year it was Sasha who looked unbeatable in the first half of the season, only to "peak too soon."

Mathman

Ladies Free Skate

Doggygirl

show 42

Arm Chair Skate Fan

JonnyCoop

Joesitz (RIP)

nicole_l

thisthingcalledlove

jan

LilyBerg

Hikaru

Doggygirl

mzheng

jan

Doggygirl

herios

Doggygirl

herios

RealtorGal

Jaana

JonnyCoop

Mathman

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