Sasha's fans and nonfans

I am a fan of Sasha´s skating, really enjoying it! I will continue being a fan, whether in competitions she wins or not. LOL, there can be only one winner in each discipline and there are many good skaters. As a matter of fact many times in past I have liked more those skaters that do not win "all the time", so to speak.

Liking and enjoying of Sasha´s skating does not mean that I would be unable to enjoy the skating of other female skaters too. For example I had no problems as Shizuka won in Worlds 2004, quite the contrary. That freeskate performance is for me the best ever performance I have seen from a female skater. It was so great both in interpreting and technically. She just went all out and won! Sasha´s short programme was equally great, in my opinion.

"Linny" -- 54,700 results.

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IDLERACER said:

She and Angela both learned to skate at the same rink (the Skate Zone in Huntington Beach) along with Naomi Nari Nam and the Stieglers. There are pictures of her and Tiffany Stiegler all over her website (they apparently have started hanging out again, now that she's moved back to Orange County).​

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Naomi won silver at US Nationals in 1999, and in 2000, when Sasha won silver, Naomi had lost her jumps and finished 8th, then had to have surgery due to injury. Tiffany Stiegler was skating Pairs and was not a competitor, and is now in Ice Dance and is STILL not a competitor

I read that same recent interview where Sasha said right out front that she was not friends with any of her competitors. OTOH, it is possible that she doesn't consider Angela a competitor.

I think we all may be reading too much into this. I haven't read where Sasha stated she's not friends with the competitors, but really wouldn't surprise me if she said something around those lines. Johnny Weir said something very similar (I don't recall if in a magazine or his website). What I understand from both statements is that at competitions, they are focusing on their own things; however, that doesn't mean that they are enemies or that they dislike each other. Very likely they are all in friendly terms with everyone, but the skaters may not be close friends with other skaters they have to compete with.



yay, I made over 200 posts!

ahhhhh this brings up a very basic point!

bronxgirl said:

I would enjoy watching Sasha skate more if there wasn't the constant concern that any move on the ice can and has put her on her tush.

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Bronxgirl and everyone! We need to remember that figure skating is a very difficult sport, and any of the moves, from the most simple stroking to just remaining balanced over two pieces of 1/4 thick steel blades standing still can put the most experienced of skaters on their respective "tushes".

That's the excitiement of skating in general, and it is also the difficulty of skating to make everything seem effortless and natural, which it isn't at its very core and being and definition.

I understand that any skater can lose their balance and fall at any time doing any skating, gliding element, turn, footwork, jump or spin. In this regard it is very much like the balance beam and pommel horse in gymnastics where balance is absolutely vital, and these events are riskier due to the higher risk of losing your balance only a little, creating a fall or a "disasterous" skate.

Therefore, it is exciting just to have the skaters cruising around stroking, or doing beautiful moves and turns with strong edges, speed and flow. They can fall for any number of small disruptions in balance---a rut in the ice, a small break in the tension of an arm or leg or the waist, incorrect breathing mechanics during elements can throw your balance off---losing your concentration for a split second by looking into the audience, a noise, a flashing camera, a coach's disapproving or approving look---anything at all can lead to a balance break and problems.

At the level of which many of us are fans exclusively (myself not included as I am a fan and student of figure skating of all levels)---the elite/Olympic/World Class level of skating---this already above average talent and expertise in skating has been developed and in many ways, taken for granted by a great deal of the public.

We all have done it! We have seen many programs performed with seven triples, a quad maybe, well done spins and footwork with no errors and been bored. If we are to be brutally honest about it, isn't it the nature of being a fan of World Class athletes of all types and sports to expect and take for granted a certain level of mastery and excellence of their sport? I don't pay $50.00 to go to a basketball or football game and see awful games, poorly played. As a fan, I would like to see quality sport and be entertained.

But, as a student of that very sport, in this case skating, I tend to be very forgiving and lenient towards the skaters (to a point, some failures are frustrating to see when you wish the skater(s) to do well). Without the experience of trying the sport you are watching and studying it, can our appreciation and judgements truly give the skaters their just due?

I believe fans lose sight of this basic fact about skating, that it is difficult. We all tend to be overly critical of the skaters. Even uber cyber fans overly criticize their favorites in the overall scheme and perspective of things.

So, the next time we want to discuss a certain performance, etc. by any skater in any event at any level at all being "terrible", or "a disaster" or something else equally as harsh as a comment for a program with a few balance breaks and corrections, remember this basic fact:

It's Figure Skating........IT'S HARD!

Well, I'm impressed that we got pretty far in this thread before any real sniping began, and even then it was minimal.

I agree with what Peggy and Jaana had to say about Sasha.

Yes, I'm a Sasha fan, but the uber-Sasha-fans (I call them Sashcists) make me cringe (I'm also married to one, so it gets a little tough). But so do the uber-Kwan-fans (aka the Kwanatics). And so do the "oh I'm so over it, [insert up-and-comer name here] is going to wipe the ice with them both" crowd. Y'all can decide for yourselves whether you fit in any of the above categories...

The polarization that tends to occur is an interesting phenomenon. I wish I could get a grant to study it!

Hey, at least we're not arguing about Sasha's sexual orientation or accusing her of skating like a girl (um, or something like that)!

I'm a fan of Sasha (There! I've said it) and a fan of Michelle, Irina, Angela, Kimmie, Shizuka, Fumie, even Yoshie

However, I'm not a fan of some of the MKF's or Sasha Fans. Wishing their competition would fall and break something is a disservice to their favourite athlete. It's almost as if they don't have real confidence in their favourite. Don't you want your favourite to skate their best?

ChiSk8Fan said:

Bronxgirl and everyone!
It's Figure Skating........IT'S HARD!

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I know it's a hard sport. Sasha just sometimes makes it look like a near impossible exercise in maintaining concentration and focus as well. :yes:

Peggy, you quoted me out of context. I was not the one who brought up Kwan's medal count in this thread. I saw the post from a Canadian uber closet Cohen fan's bashing people who are not impress with Cohen as "jealous". Red Dog brought up Kwan fans like to mention her medal count. I replied and said Mk's medal count is reality, OTOH uber Cohen fans bashing Sarah fans as middle age over wt women with unresolved issue is not reality base

Peggy said:

Its not about records and medals for me as a Sasha fan. Its her unique ability to interpret the music so beautifully and the way she completes every move.

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Appreciation of skaters is subjective. You gushed Cohen as God's gift to skating, you love to watch her , and others may think she is the most boring / overrated skater and use her as bathroom breaks.

I know some of you will say her falls ruin all that, but it doesn't for me.

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You love Cohen's flawed programs, others may still think she is the most boring skater on earth and still use her as a bathroom break even if she skates flawless

Just like the fall Kristi had when she won her Olympic gold-it was a stunning program and I still watch it.

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Kristi hands down on a triple loop, she did not fall, Ito fell. Are you confusing the 2? One is a Japanese American, the other is a Japanese. Anyway it is unfair and not fair comparison b/w Kristi's pressured fille olympic experience to e.g. national exhibit programs. Kristi hands down in the most stressful competition on ice. Some skater who fell on her jumps at national gala 2005, and the program was three years old.

I still like to watch Salome - Michelle's best ever.IMO She was wonderful when she was younger. The Lion King was good too and if she still skated like that-I would still be a fan.

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MK skated to Salome, she never skated too Lion King as a competitive or exhibition program. Nicole skated to Lion King. MK skated to some Lion King numbers in her second Disney special. Confused again?

Re: Cohen may not be friends with her competitors, no big deal. I think even some sort of pre game trash talking is OK fun too, when she told the press that her programs were so superior, and "other skaters programs are too choreograph and chiseled" But IMHO post game trashing her competitors achievement is Fumie has done nothing wrong and did not deserve to have her bronze medal 03 minimized by the 4th place 2003 world finisher publically in her official website, sore about losing the podium spot? Even NBA players know to shut up post game. I expect the current USA natioinal silver medalist to do better

bronxgirl said:

I know it's a hard sport. Sasha just sometimes makes it look like a near impossible exercise in maintaining concentration and focus as well. :yes:

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How hard is it to skate a clean program at natioinals gala? Cohen's jumps were botched in her 2000 natioinals gala program, and she fell on her jumps at 05 national gala. OTOH Rachel, the novice lady champion landed all her jumps

fandom thru the years-I do have a point...

I have always been interested in watching and reading about figure skating (though I don't skate worth a penny!). But-I notice that my "fan" attitude has evolved through the years. When I was 12, I really LOVED Dorothy Hamill. I wished for the doll, bought the conditioner, Short and Sassy (LOL) though my hair was longer and curly, and had the Seventeen magazine with Dorothy on the cover!

During the 80s when I was in my teens and twenties, I still felt pretty emotional about my favorites. Even if they were a little younger than me (like G and G), I really had a "fan" like mentality about them. I still feel like this when I see the skaters from that era-Brian B and Brian O, Scott H, Liz M, etc. (I am afraid I didn't care for Roz even back then. Even if she also was in Seventeen!)

By the time of Tara, I just liked the skating. They were just too young for that violent happiness or dislike. I love Sasha's skating for its strong points. I feel mildly disappointed that she can't always pull it together. But-I can't get too upset when someone disagrees with me about her.. I am afraid I am getting-gasp!-middle-aged! But-I will love skating and love to watch good skating when I am one hundred, I think!

gezando said:

BTW, I don't know whether you are a Rocket fan or not, but honestly do you expect most Houstonians who buy tickets for a Rocket / Spur game to just enjoy the compeitiion? You expect them not to cheer for the Rockets, or hold up those white long balloons when a Spur is at the free throw line

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I am a fan of the Houston Rockets. And to spend $50-200 on a Rockets ticket makes it worth it IMO only to Rockets or opponent fans. Personally, I can't compare the two because skating is different...very different IMO.

The situation appears to be this: Yes, there are Cohen uber-fans that post here, but some of her bigger detractors ALSO post here. And some of them are calling other people fans who aren't actually fans.

Red Dog said:

I am a fan of the Houston Rockets. And to spend $50-200 on a Rockets ticket makes it worth it IMO only to Rockets or opponent fans. Personally, I can't compare the two because skating is different...very different IMO.

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Skating and basketball are competitive sports, The difference is one is an individual sports, the other a team sport. I am willing to pay $90 for a ticket to see my favorite NBA team, but I skipped COI last year

The difference I see in the uber skating fans are
1. They want to play the pregame trash talk game, e.g.an uber fan is trash talking in the Tara thread that Cohen will be the OGM in 2006. I have seen similar uber fans trash talk in the beginning of every season since 2000, when their favorite hit the senior rank
2. These same uber fans however are not willing to face up to the post game analysis. Post game. they complain about how mean are tne press and other fans
They then expect everyone to worship their favorite as an ice princess

I think the NBA players and fans are more honest in contrast

gezando said:

The difference I see in the uber skating fans are
1. They want to play the pregame trash talk game, e.g.an uber fan is trash talking in the Tara thread that Cohen will be the OGM in 2006. I have seen similar uber fans trash talk in the beginning of every season since 2000, when their favorite hit the senior rank
2. These same uber fans however are not willing to face up to the post game analysis. Post game. they complain about how mean are tne press and other fans
They then expect everyone to worship their favorite as an ice princess

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Here I think I actually AGREE with you

Explanation without bashing

Lot's of votes on the fan - non-fan designation... I'd like to provide an explanation as to why I'm a Sasha non-fan.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the flaws in programs that have been the subject of much discussion.

It has to do with her passion or lack thereof. I'm not referring to Angleka Krilova style emoting. I'm just looking for a love of skating that shows. If Sasha loves to skate, it doesn't show.

Linny

I think Sasha's style and technique is beautiful. I think her jumps are incredibly inconsistent. Until she can put the two together, she is never going to live up to her potential. I think in the past she has shown little passion in her skating...it has been a study of her trying to focus. I think at this year's nationals she smiled a lot more and seemed much happier just to be skating, despite the problems. I am not an uber fan, but I am not ready to write her off. I would love to see her relax and put together the skate of her life...and that's coming from a dedicated MK fan. I just can' t wish anyone ill who goes through the rigors that these athletes do...whether I care for their personalities or not. I honestly get the impression that any diva like behavior in her case, is either imagined by her detractors, or if indeed it does exist, is fueled by insecurities...which is probably what keeps her from pulling it all together in the first place. It's not enough for everyone else to believe...she has to believe it too. I wish her well.

Peggy said:

Just thought there should be a tread for people who are sensitive about their position on Sasha and want to get the record straight.

I'll start by saying I'm a big skating fan and Sasha is my favorite.
Peggy

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ditto

Some of what I've heard about Sasha's alleged agressiveness and lack of awareness of other skaters on the ice has been a turn-off. That and her brief association with Bush and beef.

In regard to her skating, she has a lot of talent but sometimes seems to be trying too hard to be the best rather than skate her best. And I could do without the Beaver Cleaver. Really girl, I'm not your gynecologist.

Generally, I do like to watch her skate and think if she has a Salt Lake Sarah moment she could wind up with the Oly Gold nestling between her......well, never mind about that.

After seeing Sasha at nationals this year, I think her programs are much simpler than the ones she did with Tarasova. I think Sasha's time with Tarasova will end up being her athletic peak, similar to the brief time Nicole Bobek spent with Richard Callaghan. I am worried about whether John Nicks knows enough about CoP to craft programs that will help Sasha compete at worlds. However, I do think Sasha had a better sense of her music at nationals than she has had before, and apparently she is making many changes to her program. I don't see her landing 3-3's at worlds or a 3a or quad or whatever her secret jump is.

Justafan said:

..... or if indeed it does exist, is fueled by insecurities...which is probably what keeps her from pulling it all together in the first place. It's not enough for everyone else to believe...she has to believe it too. I wish her well.

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Exactly my thought about her that 'insecurities' feeling.