Michelle - The End or a New Beginning?
- Thread starter BronzeisGolden
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
March 14.
http://www.eastwestbank.com/MICHELEKWAN.pdf
It doesn't say how much of the bank's 6 billion dollars in assests Michelle gets, but the first order of business is: two L's in Michelle, LOL.
MM
http://www.eastwestbank.com/MICHELEKWAN.pdf
It doesn't say how much of the bank's 6 billion dollars in assests Michelle gets, but the first order of business is: two L's in Michelle, LOL.
MM
tdnuva said:
If you're going to say that, then please please explain to me why Sasha's and even worse Irina's scores were fluctuated even with the mistakes they made, especially with Irina's short??? That is a travesty in of itself.
Kwan was rightly penalized and I don't think she was held up. If she was, she would have gotten bronze or heaven help us silver by now.
tannisming said:
I hope you're not only referring to Michelle because goodness knows, no top caliber lady with the exception of Irina has been doing 3/3s consistently.
As for your desire to have more jumps, that isn't what figure skating is all about. Do you want the skaters to have injuries and ending their careers? Give me a combination of both jumps and artistry; that is the perfect blend and the complete package.
Of course I'll be impressed if a female skater landed a 3/3, a 3 axel or even a quad but that's not enough for me. Honey, that don't impress me much if there's no artistry to balance the jumps out.
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tannisming said:
I gotta hand it to ya....you never give up 
Or rather the system will benefit the skaters whom the judges deem the best instead of being prepared. Moscow wasn't perfect ya know. Rather a splatfest in general.
Gee, I wonder what your reaction would be if Michelle actually did win in Turin under the COP system?????
soogar said:
Ok fair, but we are not Michelle. If anyone were Michelle, the skater who has landed more triples (competitions and practices combined) than any skater has, they would certainly understand Michelle's situation. But nobody is Michelle, hence they can never understand how Michelle is feeling and how her body is feeling. Why not just give her the benefit of the doubt, it's not like she is causing harm to people by competing less.
By competing less, she is rewarded with a healthy body that enables her to stay longer in the business, so that's a very good return for her gamble after all. The only mistake I think Michelle made is she debuted her COP program at Worlds. Nevertheless, like I have said, if we make a mistake, just suck it up, learn from it and move on and she certainly seems to be doing that.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
apache88 said:
ITA - Learn from it. But is it too late? Will she develop variations in her spins? Will she get a secure 3zx3t? Will she add on more transitions? and most of all, Will she get music to figure skate to?
Michelle Kwan, imo, is the most beautiful skater in the world but this is a SPORT and the 6.0 system is dead. She needs points, points, points.
Joe
show 42 said:
There's less training when you travel to events. This is what Johnny said concerning his injury and the fact that he lost training time in competing in all these events.
Concerning a Scandal:
If MK wins, there won't be a scandal b/c Americans want their skater to win regardless of whether the victory was deserved or not. If a foreign skater places behind MK and that skater should have won, no one is going to complain about it except for that skater's federation and you know that the US media won't pick up on it. I'm actually surprised that they actually spent so much time on the Paul Hamm issue and actually was presenting a balanced viewpoint for a while until they found some "deductions" that weren't taken in the Korean's program and then harped on that.
Basic edges etc:
Maybe MK's stroking and edges are so superb b/c that's all she does in her programs... She's consistent, but she's by no means the best out there. Now her tech level is starting to decline and I just don't see her winning the OGM. Her chance was in 2002 and she would have been a worthy OGM. At least there wouldn't be any fat threads on MK.
I would expect that the lack of training time is the reason why the GP events would be at high risk for injury. Having to go from full force competition to sitting in airports, etc. Add to that disruption of sleep crossing time zones if that happens to be a problem area for a skater.
Sooge, you can speculation all you want. Decredit Kwan all you want.
But before she finally hung up her skate, it is much too early for you to say her technique ability is declinning, if all technical abibility you mean is the jump and spin. I'd like to hear what you say if she comes back next year with level 3 spins and 3/3s.
But before she finally hung up her skate, it is much too early for you to say her technique ability is declinning, if all technical abibility you mean is the jump and spin. I'd like to hear what you say if she comes back next year with level 3 spins and 3/3s.
Michelle Kwan had been the most beautiful skater, but not this year... her jumpimg technique indeed declined and she could not even put the 3l in the program and fell on the salcow, and her other jumps are smaller and no flow...If she determines to come back next year and is willing to put in hard work, she's capable to get back to her 2001's shape...
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2003
What kind of blanket b.s. assumptions about Americans is this? I am American and I don't want our skaters to win if they didn't deserve it. As for the media, perhaps you have failed to notice it is biased in other countries as well.soogar said:
A lot can happen in a year. Irina finished 9th at last years worlds, "starting to decline" and some wrote off her chances. That certainly wasn't how things turned out. If you don't like the "fat threads" on MK, no one is forcing you to read them.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
You nailed the questions, Joe. The ever-fascinating Michelle will have us guessing at the answers all summer.Joesitz said:
About spins, she has never been a fast spinner and I don't think she is going to turn into a butterfly overnight in this regard. But she did work hard in the past to come up with spins that she could do comfortably, and which had a great look on the the ice, such as her hands-behind-the-back layback.
In the Hirsh article Michelle is quoted as saying, according to the CoP you can't get enough positive GOE on a low level spin done well to make up the difference in the base level. In other words, you get more points for doing something hard badly than for doing something easy well.
Michelle says she understands this, but it just doesn't seem within her character to go out there with the deliberate intent of performing anything less than her best. Plus, when she tried to raise the level of her spins last year, by putting in more changes of position, grabbing her leg, etc., she ended up hurting her back and had to lighten up her training.
About transitions, that's a two-edged sword, too. You can fill up the time between elements by waving your arms or (if you are Joubert) by doing a little tap dance, etc. To me, many of the difficult entries to jumps that we are seeing are impressive in their difficulty, but they detract from, rather than add to, the choreography of the piece. (Exception: Matt Savoie
)I agree with the posters who are saying that it would be awesome if Michelle went back to Lori Nichol to see what they could create together next year. That would be an Olympic story line in itself. At the very least, get some advice from Nichol on choice of music. I think Nichol is the best in the business at matching the musical and choreographic themes to each skater's individual strengths and weaknesses (examples: Fumie Suguri and Tim Goebel).
Finally, the jumps. Joe, you say that Michelle should get a 3Lutz/3Toe. But the funny thing about the CoP is that it does not seem to have any mechanism to reward difficult jump combinations (except in the short program). If Michelle does a 3T/3T and then later on a solo 3Luzt, as far as I can see she gets exactly the same number of points as Irina would if she did a 3Lutz/3Toe and then a solo toe loop.
Anyway, I think her pride will drive her to do a 3/3 of some sort next year, regardless of what the CoP has to say about it. To me, that is the main reason why I hope she does the Grand Prix. You have to get used to doing that element in competion.
I think that is more impostant than trying to find out what point value the CoP gives for her different elements -- she can find that out without skating. I disagree that Michelle learned anything about the new judging system in Moscow. She found out that it is bad to fall on a triple Salchow, but she knew that already.
(Although I have to admit that there is a tiny part of me that hopes Michelle says nuts to the Grand Prix, then Cinquanta kicks her out of the Olympics, then Michelle sets up her own rival pro-am organization, holds her first event on the same day as the Olympics, everyone watches Michelle and no-one cares about the Olympics, then they come begging on their knees to Michelle to come back, we're sorry we treated you so mean, here's a billion dollars if you will just come back and save the sport. That's my prediction -- remember, you read it here first!)
Mathman
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
But did you see her performance at the Words exhibitions?jesslily said:
But I agree to this extent, that she seemed distracted throughout the season and never really got her Magic Heart stuff going. Leading up to Worlds I scoffed at the idea that the new judging system would have anything to do with how Michelle skated or what color medal she would win. Just skate, let the judges judge, and everything will work out fine in the end.
But Michelle herself said afterwards that worring about the CoP preyed on her mind, and maybe this took a little of the edge off of her performances.
Mathman
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Mathman - A 3x3 combo may only give the extra points according to the scale but you have to admit that there is a psychological affect on this very subjective sport. The judges go ga ga on everything else.
BTW, You didn't critique my suggestion of better music.
Soogar - You should know better than to blanket a people of mixed origins as it is in America. Russia is much purer in its skating ethnicity, and their need to be first is because of the late entry into the Renascence(sp). It took two German princesses to get them there.
As for America's favorite, the Americans have another very talented lady who has an entire website in her honor. She is also very popular skater, and a World's silver medalist, or have you not noticed? Many Americans see her as the premier USA skater.
Joe
BTW, You didn't critique my suggestion of better music.
Soogar - You should know better than to blanket a people of mixed origins as it is in America. Russia is much purer in its skating ethnicity, and their need to be first is because of the late entry into the Renascence(sp). It took two German princesses to get them there.
As for America's favorite, the Americans have another very talented lady who has an entire website in her honor. She is also very popular skater, and a World's silver medalist, or have you not noticed? Many Americans see her as the premier USA skater.
Joe
Ogre Mage said:What kind of blanket b.s. assumptions about Americans is this? I am American and I don't want our skaters to win if they didn't deserve it. As for the media, perhaps you have failed to notice it is biased in other countries as well.
A lot can happen in a year. Irina finished 9th at last years worlds, "starting to decline" and some wrote off her chances. That certainly wasn't how things turned out. If you don't like the "fat threads" on MK, no one is forcing you to read them.
I meant "fat threads" in terms of the Sarah is fat threads that are prevalent.
mzheng said:Sooge, you can speculation all you want. Decredit Kwan all you want.
But before she finally hung up her skate, it is much too early for you to say her technique ability is declinning, if all technical abibility you mean is the jump and spin. I'd like to hear what you say if she comes back next year with level 3 spins and 3/3s.
She needs to get her 3 loop back, get the confidence back in her 3 lutz which gave her trouble at nats and the cheesefest, and not sit down on the 3 salchow before thinking about 3-3s. She's not the same skater she used to be a few years ago. The past two years her ranking has been steadily declining and her fans just write it off that she skated bad in the QR, she didn't skate the GP, etc. She used to be a skater you could count on to stand up her jumps and she's losing that bit by bit. Maybe she is dealing with an injury and is being very secretive about it.
As for level 3 spins, she might get them, but they will hamper her in other parts of her performance. It's been years since she's had a program with full choreography and she's severely out of practice skating a fully loaded program. More power to her if she can "up the ante" in a year. However there are skaters out there that are more talented who are having problems skating a clean COP loaded program and they have been competing for 2 years under the system. I don't see how MK can do it all in a year and skate it clean at the Olympics.
By Americans, I refer to American media. Most Americans don't really care who wins the OGM and if they do care, it would be just long enough for water cooler talk. Only figure skating fans get worked up about who wins the OGM.
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