Was Czisny's Omission From The U.S. Team for The 4CC's A Snub? | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Was Czisny's Omission From The U.S. Team for The 4CC's A Snub?

"extenuating circumstances": I didn't skate at Nationals because I was sick/injured, but I have been dominant at every event for the last XXX years and deserve my spot at Worlds/4CC/Olympics. See: Michelle Kwan, Todd Eldredge, Nancy Kerrigan, Belbin and Agosto.
 
mylastduchess said:
Whats with all the attack on Alissa? All she said was that she was surprised and wanted to go.... read the whole article
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Agree!! Plus, it was in response to being asked the question, not something she volunteered or made a point of saying. Seriously, if she said something about being okay with not going/not needing or wanting to go, however well or nicely she put it, someone would probably find a way to construe that as Alissa not having fire in the belly or not wanting to compete or something else negative.
 
mskater93 said:
"extenuating circumstances": I didn't skate at Nationals because I was sick/injured, but I have been dominant at every event for the last XXX years and deserve my spot at Worlds/4CC/Olympics. See: Michelle Kwan, Todd Eldredge, Nancy Kerrigan, Belbin and Agosto.
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Exactly. The "crime" that these skaters committed was skipping nationals. The "excuse" (extenuating circumstance) was they were injured.

There is no notion of an "extenuating circumstance" at play here, in any ordinary sense of the term.

rallycairn said:
Agree!! Plus, it was in response to being asked the question, not something she volunteered or made a point of saying. Seriously, if she said something about being okay with not going/not needing or wanting to go, however well or nicely she put it, someone would probably find a way to construe that as Alissa not having fire in the belly or not wanting to compete or something else negative.
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:rock:
 
seniorita said:
Someone asked about ISU Prize money, I think they havent published a new communication since then.
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So this isn't news maybe, but news to me, and not totally on topic - sorry. How does the ISU justify shelling out $100,000 more to Euros then 4CC? I know it has a longer history, but these championships should be equal, especially since skaters have no choice which to compete in. Carolina got $5000.00 more then Ashley, Artur $5000.00 more then Patrick :( ? If anything there should be a travel stipend for 4CC (maybe there is?) for these skater flying in from such a great distance. It's hard for me to believe is just about the wealth/prestige of the nat'l federations involved either. More of the big federations are at 4CC by my reckoning.
 
The only "extenuating circumstances" is USFSA's inability to follow its own rule. When it all comes down to it, the only skater out of US national's top 10 that qualified for the 4CC selecting rule is Alissa, and may be Rachel and Mirai. None of the skaters selected even made to the worlds or had good international successes these past years, never mind US nationals last year which Alissa actually won.

While Alissa is the only one who deserve her spot, she should have been consoled or even be persuaded giving up her spot for the good of the federation (and for her own sake to concentrate on WC or taking care of her injuries whatevers etc.) during this "extenuating circumstance". To be left out entirely without any form of explanation that can only be interpreted as neglect. Yeah the world is a bit funny sometimes but more funny/weird in figure skating than others.


ivy said:
So this isn't news maybe, but news to me, and not totally on topic - sorry. How does the ISU justify shelling out $100,000 more to Euros then 4CC? I know it has a longer history, but these championships should be equal, especially since skaters have no choice which to compete in. Carolina got $5000.00 more then Ashley, Artur $5000.00 more then Patrick :( ? If anything there should be a travel stipend for 4CC (maybe there is?) for these skater flying in from such a great distance. It's hard for me to believe is just about the wealth/prestige of the nat'l federations involved either. More of the big federations are at 4CC by my reckoning.
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EU also have higher taxes, so they are worse off believe me :)

If Carolina managed her Gold this year along with her other winnings,she'd be paying 40%+ in income tax. (Unless she got a shrewd accountant)
 
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ivy said:
So this isn't news maybe, but news to me, and not totally on topic - sorry. How does the ISU justify shelling out $100,000 more to Euros then 4CC? I know it has a longer history, but these championships should be equal, especially since skaters have no choice which to compete in. Carolina got $5000.00 more then Ashley, Artur $5000.00 more then Patrick :( ? If anything there should be a travel stipend for 4CC (maybe there is?) for these skater flying in from such a great distance. It's hard for me to believe is just about the wealth/prestige of the nat'l federations involved either. More of the big federations are at 4CC by my reckoning.
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I was surprised by that too. I also noticed that junior worlds prize money was pretty close to that of 4CC. Scrolling down further, I wonder if figure skating skating revenues are subsidizing speed skating revenues, because as little figure skating we see on TV, I NEVER see speed skating on.
 
Name one time Alissa's had a good performance at 4CC...I can't recall. Besides, she cited being tired so soon after nationals as to why she turned in such a weak performance at 4CC last year (yet Mirai and Rachael managed to have excellent skates), so I figured the USFSA was doing her a favor by letting her rest and prepare for worlds. I'd have thought she'd have welcomed the break.

Given the strong SP performance and potential of Agnes and the re-emergence of Caroline at nationals, sending the two of them to an ISU event that could help them score important points and earn their way onto the GP was a very good thing. They deserved it. And Ashley? She had a decent season on the GP but the judges were still low-balling her compared to some of the other skaters. Giving her the opportunity to strut her stuff at an ISU championship gave her the chance to show the judges what she's made of before showing up at worlds for the first time since 2008 next month. Now the judges have a clear idea of what she can do and (hopefully) she'll be sufficiently rewarded if she does well.

I think it was a smart move by the USFSA (for once). From the article, it seems like Alissa and her team were only slightly miffed by the apparent "snub"; Phil Hersch seems to be the indignant one in this situation.
 
os168 said:
EU also have higher taxes, so they are worse off believe me :)

If Carolina managed her Gold this year along with her other winnings,she'd be paying 40%+ in income tax. (Unless she got a shrewd accountant)
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I know you're being a bit tongue in cheek but still....

Worse or better - it's a matter of opinion. Personally I would gladly trade higher taxes for the health coverage and free higher ed that exists in much of the EU. Maybe Italy isn't the best example, but a German or Scandinavian model I could sign onto in minute. Australia, Japan, Canada are all relatively high tax countries too and the ISU doesn't give them extra money to make up for it ;)

The point really is that it's none of the ISU's business what happens to the prize money after it's awarded, but it is their business to make sure the prize money is fairly distributed so that skaters have equal access to prize money regardless of nat'l federation.
 
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kwanatic said:
so I figured the USFSA was doing her a favor by letting her rest and prepare for worlds.

... I think it was a smart move by the USFSA (for once).
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The question isn't whether the USFSA did Alissa a favor by not sending her, or whether it was a "smart move."

The question is, did the USFSA follow its own selection rules.
 
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Don't athletes get to deduct their training, traveling, and equipment expenses? They are investments for the prize earnings.

I saw the prizes for this year 4CC earlier and they were the same as for 2009 as linked. But I too was surprised by the large discrepancies between them and those for the Euro.

Surveys show the happiest people are from some of the most highly taxed nations. It's about the value for the taxes paid.
 
ivy said:
How does the ISU justify shelling out $100,000 more to Euros then 4CC? I know it has a longer history, but these championships should be equal, especially since skaters have no choice which to compete in. Carolina got $5000.00 more then Ashley, Artur $5000.00 more then Patrick :( ? If anything there should be a travel stipend for 4CC (maybe there is?) for these skater flying in from such a great distance. It's hard for me to believe is just about the wealth/prestige of the nat'l federations involved either. More of the big federations are at 4CC by my reckoning.
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The difference is because the 4CC winners are paid in American dollars........
The European winners are paid in Greek bonds. :laugh:
 
One thing I noticed though was that Alissa was there at 4CC and even watched the Ladies FS! Is it relatively close to where they (Adam, Jeremy, Alissa) all train? Or did she just want to be near her coaches?
 
Both Alissa and Jeremy were there to be with their coaches. Melisa Bulanhagui and Armin, who trains there, were there as well.
 
ivy said:
So this isn't news maybe, but news to me, and not totally on topic - sorry. How does the ISU justify shelling out $100,000 more to Euros then 4CC? I know it has a longer history, but these championships should be equal, especially since skaters have no choice which to compete in. Carolina got $5000.00 more then Ashley, Artur $5000.00 more then Patrick :( ? If anything there should be a travel stipend for 4CC (maybe there is?) for these skater flying in from such a great distance. It's hard for me to believe is just about the wealth/prestige of the nat'l federations involved either. More of the big federations are at 4CC by my reckoning.
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Arthur got 2000$ less than Chan if I see correct. I dont know why the difference, maybe because Euros is a very old event so they used to have a certain percentage of total ISU prize money since before 4CC was born some 15 years ago? And maybe now Euros prizes are reduced to meet 4 cc? Or maybe it is because in Euros the federations that participate are a lot, I counted 42, even if they are not the biggest ones still they must contribute to ISU.If 4cc keeps going up and getiing the best skaters maybe they will reconcider it, since it is a new event relatively.

PolymerBob said:
The difference is because the 4CC winners are paid in American dollars........ The European winners are paid in Greek bonds.
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LOL, but I dont know if I want to :laugh: or :bang:
 
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macy said:
i understand why she would be upset and USFSA should have been honest with her about why they didn't choose her.
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What is this about USFSA not being "honest"? All we know that Alissa didn't expect not to get invited, and Jason didn't get voluntarily told why. Did they *ask* USFSA why? And did USFSA gave them some vague or untrue reply? Or did they not ask at all? I personally can't imagine that USFSA officials wouldn't explain to them their thinking if they were asked.
 
seniorita said:
Arthur got 2000$ less than Chan if I see correct. I dont know why the difference, maybe because Euros is a very old event so they used to have a certain percentage of total ISU prize money since before 4CC was born some 15 years ago? And maybe now Euros prizes are reduced to meet 4 cc? Or maybe it is because in Euros the federations that participate are a lot, I counted 42, even if they are not the biggest ones still they must contribute to ISU.If 4cc keeps going up and getiing the best skaters maybe they will reconcider it, since it is a new event relatively.

LOL, but I dont know if I want to :laugh: or :bang:
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Mea culpa! My mistake!!! Sincere apologies :) I was thinking Arthur won - but he won only one phase (iirc correctly - I'm not a fan of either he or Evegeni, so six to one, half dozen to the other in my brain apparently).

It's easy to pass off the discrepancy with jokes about Greek bonds, tax rates and such, but I bet the extra $5000.00 would mean a lot to Ashley. We're always being reminded of how much skating at an elite level costs. There maybe more federations represented at Euros, but certainly more population, and probably more skating fans in 4CC. Still haven't heard a good explanation of why it's this way or how it fair. No skin off my nose personally - just strikes me as not right........
 
ivy said:
There maybe more federations represented at Euros, but certainly more population, and probably more skating fans in 4CC.
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What I meant about Feds, arent they contributing finacially to ISU? If Euros has 40 federations... I dunno. Is it so well attended every year 4CC? I dont remember. Euros is a very well attended event always, actually it is full house most of the days, maybe not in the early sps, it is broadcasted in many countries like Worlds and federations send their best athletes, the national champions and 2nd or 3rd, they dont send the 4th and 5th skater. 4CC has just started and in 2010 for example 90% of top skaters skipped it, while in Euros it is rarely skipped even in Olympic Season, on the contrary Euros in Oly season is the biggest event here before Olympics. Geography helps of course. Maybe this year 4CC had the best skaters but there was time that Euros was a mini worlds actually. Except for Mao in 2010 who else went to 4cc before Vancouver? Euros has 80 years history. So maybe ISU at the beginning of 4CC didnt think that the podium skaters at Euros that usually is a top skater generally will have the same prize with the winner of 4CC which was maybe the 4th skater of the nationals in his country. Just a guess I m certainly not supporting it. I wish skaters to get as much money as they can from ISU. But if federations keep sending their national champions, and the best skaters like Chan, Daisuke and Mao every season, I m sure 4CC prize will change.
 
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