2015-2016 Ladies Power Rankings

[moriel]

I don't know what else to say on the subject of Gracie's Firebird program other than this. As a former professional dancer I can promise that there are lot of things in Gracie's Choreography that come straight from the ballet. Including the "Squat" which I still can't believe is what some people call it. Can you seriously imagine Lori saying..."Ok Gracie.....Squat!!" Just the thought of it makes me laugh. Why don't some of you have a look at the pieces from the ballet and you'll get a better picture of what Gracie, Frank, and Lori are going for.

Have a look at this clip from the actual Ballet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC6MmmLKEmA

Some of you may find the choreography a bit odd. However, Ballet isn't for everyone and trust me when I say. I'd rather perform Firebird a thousand times before I ever do another "Modern Dance" ........I remember a dance where we started as a Tree, then some of the dancers "fell off" as leaves and died. They had to lay there for 3 minutes while some of us ( Me ) turned into birds and flew away and the final group fell to the ground and become the "Roots" before 1 dancer came out dressed in a green leafy costume and began the new life of the tree.

You never saw an audience more confused. We got "Courtesy Claps" every night for that dance. It was embarrassing.

While I enjoy ballet, I have a feeling that not all ballet things can be done on ice, and what looks well while done by a ballet dancer may not look so well when done by someone who is not so well trained and does it while skating.
The comparison does not flatter Gracie at all - i just look at the ballet dancer's arms, and then at Gracies and cry =(

I dunno, for me it is more a combination of skater and choreo, not each one by itself. Kinda like if you gave Mao's short of this season to Radio to skate to it. I like both skaters and the program, but imho it woudn't work well.

 

[mrrice]

While I enjoy ballet, I have a feeling that not all ballet things can be done on ice, and what looks well while done by a ballet dancer may not look so well when done by someone who is not so well trained and does it while skating.
The comparison does not flatter Gracie at all - i just look at the ballet dancer's arms, and then at Gracies and cry =(

I dunno, for me it is more a combination of skater and choreo, not each one by itself. Kinda like if you gave Mao's short of this season to Radio to skate to it. I like both skaters and the program, but imho it woudn't work well.

This may be the most accurate comment when it comes to transitioning a ballet onto the ice. It's well known that Maria Butyrskaya is my all time favorite skater. However, Swan Lake was my least favorite LP of hers. I loved the costume but, it just loses something when it hits the ice. Especially, if a skater makes even the smallest mistake. Ballerina's (Almost) never fall or make mistakes that the untrained eye would ever notice and that is not the case with skating. If a skater falls, the entire audience knows immediately and the mood is lost.

"The comparison does not flatter Gracie at all - i just look at the ballet dancer's arms, and then at Gracies and cry =("

My Ballet teacher used to say "Honey, are you trying to hail a cab with those arms? Go back!!"

 

[MaxSwagg]

The egg laying is the least of Gracie's issues. She typically skates with absolutely NO expression on her face. She was even more glossy-eyed than usual at 4CC...

 

[mrrice]

The egg laying is the least of Gracie's issues. She typically skates with absolutely NO expression on her face. She was even more glossy-eyed than usual at 4CC...

100% Correct!!! This is an area where I think Gracie must improve. She could have the skate of her life and I'd still have her behind a clean Med because Med delivers a complete performance from start to finish. Where as, Gracie tends to start performing AFTER her jumps are over. That means she's only truly performing for the final 30 seconds of her programs. As a big fan of hers, it's my biggest peeve and she's done it for years.

 

[MaxSwagg]

100% Correct!!! This is an area where I think Gracie must improve. She could have the skate of her life and I'd still have her behind a clean Med because Med delivers a complete performance from start to finish. Where as, Gracie tends to start performing AFTER her jumps are over. That means she's only performing for the final 30 seconds of her programs. As a big fan of hers, it's my biggest peeve and she's done it for years.

Yes, IMO she's "gone down" since Olympics in terms of her technical and presentation. She could skate a perfect technical program but I still wouldn't be draw in because her face NEVER changes.

 

[andyjo24]

100% Correct!!! This is an area where I think Gracie must improve. She could have the skate of her life and I'd still have her behind a clean Med because Med delivers a complete performance from start to finish. Where as, Gracie tends to start performing AFTER her jumps are over. That means she's only truly performing for the final 30 seconds of her programs. As a big fan of hers, it's my biggest peeve and she's done it for years.

What's the point? Gracie is getting higher interpretation scores than even her SS scores, so there's no incentive to improve......

And I bet if she were as consistent as Evgenia, judges would put their PCS on around the same level.

 

[mrrice]

What's the point? Gracie is getting higher interpretation scores than even her SS scores, so there's no incentive to improve......

And I bet if she were as consistent as Evgenia, judges would put their PCS on around the same level.

This is unfortunately, quite true. I still say that it's the "Fear of Frank" factor. As a judge, to have a legend like Frank and another legend like Lori, staring at you while you're posting your numbers can be quite intimidating. Judges know that if they a mistake, Frank can get them removed from big events. This happened in Dance as well. I have definitely "Written Up" a judge and complained about their lack of knowledge and recognition of the component's contained in my Dance Pieces. I then said that I would be returning to the event should that judge be the panel.

It doesn't always work but, you will usually get a response from the higher ups saying they've spoken to the judge and have addressed the problem. In most cases things did improve.

 

[sc8]

100% Correct!!! This is an area where I think Gracie must improve. She could have the skate of her life and I'd still have her behind a clean Med because Med delivers a complete performance from start to finish. Where as, Gracie tends to start performing AFTER her jumps are over. That means she's only truly performing for the final 30 seconds of her programs. As a big fan of hers, it's my biggest peeve and she's done it for years.

I think Frank is aware of this and tried to overhaul her with the "princess" packaging, but it doesn't fit her. I'd love to know what music she dances to when nobody is looking or what she sings to in the car, or (sadly) has made her cry. She needs music that moves her deeply so that her emotional connection to the music comes through in her skating. But, I'm beginning to think she just doesn't have musicality.
Bompard short wasn't bad this year...as she seemed to connect with this piece then, but her mistakes at Nationals and 4CC seemed to preoccupy her and she lost the musicality bits she had at Bompard. It's frustrating because she has enormous potential, great coaching and choreography, but doesn't seem to know how to relax in her programs to give a smile, facial expression, etc.

 

[mrrice]

I think Frank is aware of this and tried to overhaul her with the "princess" packaging, but it doesn't fit her. I'd love to know what music she dances to when nobody is looking or what she sings to in the car, or (sadly) has made her cry. She needs music that moves her deeply so that her emotional connection to the music comes through in her skating. But, I'm beginning to think she just doesn't have musicality.
Bompard short wasn't bad this year...as she seemed to connect with this piece then, but her mistakes at Nationals and 4CC seemed to preoccupy her and she lost the musicality bits she had at Bompard. It's frustrating because she has enormous potential, great coaching and choreography, but doesn't seem to know how to relax in her programs to give a smile, facial expression, etc.

I absolutely love this comment and it's very true. It also reminds of that scene from "The Cutting Edge" Remember when they're listening to music and she's trying to tell him what the judges will want and he tells her it's boring. I'll have to find it. I couldn't find it but......I forgot how good looking "Hale" was. She should have picked him.....

Anyway, when I was searching for music for the dance pieces I would choreograph. I would start with the story or mood that I wanted to set and go from there. I remember watching the movie "Pleasantville" and loving how it changed from Black and White to Color. I even thought about dressing the dancers in varied color's of grey to simulate the first part of the movie before it changed to Color. Unfortunately, it just never looked right.

I went home to my Partner and said "I can't make this work" He said, "What are you trying to make people feel?" I said, "I don't know, I want people to feel happy and appreciate the beauty around them." So, the next day I'm driving to work and "Kiss From A Rose" by Seal comes on the radio and BOOM, that was it. Long story short. We won every event we entered that season and were the Grand Champions after out scoring every team in every division at Finals. It was one of the best seasons of my life.

We set the whole routine in a park. Complete with a gazebo, park bench, a chair swing and rose bushes. All built by my Partner........What a good guy. Our boosters got together and bought him a new set of tools and he was very happy. As was I.

 

[moriel]

i think gracie could just do the athletic type - dunno, like Tuks free last season, some upbeat music, no ballet, not many thing requiring interpretation.
Judges are willing to give her great PCs, and it would not create such a dissonance like when she should be interpreting and then it just doesn't happens.

 

[qwerty]

I know this thread isn't all about Gracie, but in lieu of recent posts, I wanted to suggest a jazzy number for Gracie next year. I think she has connected with that genre of music for a few years now.

Even though the 2013 Gershwin short was a bomb for many, I actually think that was a program that helped Gracie reach an authentic interpretation.

 

[Jammers]

Gracie just needs to land the damn jumps and she will get on any podium doesn't matter if she isn't Michelle or Sasha out there in terms of artistry. The judges have shown for 3 years now that they will give her the scores if she can simply land the jumps.

 

[andyjo24]

I know this thread isn't all about Gracie, but in lieu of recent posts, I wanted to suggest a jazzy number for Gracie next year. I think she has connected with that genre of music for a few years now.

Even though the 2013 Gershwin short was a bomb for many, I actually think that was a program that helped Gracie reach an authentic interpretation.

I wish Gracie would just choose music that she actually enjoys without being forced to do princess music.

This can be anything that she enjoys. It will improve the presentation aspect by miles.

Of course, will Frank and Lori let her? Probably not... :noshake:

 

[Sackie]

Have to agree with you jammers - it doesn't seem to matter how Gracie skates at any given event the judges still love her and reward her with high PCS even when she shows no emotion and lacks a 'performance'. So if she can land all her planned jumps she will medal and probably even win. I in fact expect this to happen at worlds at home, and think the judges have been leaving her PCS high so that this can happen when she does skate clean.

 

[moriel]

Have to agree with you jammers - it doesn't seem to matter how Gracie skates at any given event the judges still love her and reward her with high PCS even when she shows no emotion and lacks a 'performance'. So if she can land all her planned jumps she will medal and probably even win. I in fact expect this to happen at worlds at home, and think the judges have been leaving her PCS high so that this can happen when she does skate clean.

but still, as fans, we want her to do something cool that would not make us feel cheated by judges as when she gets a 9 in performance for her current programs

 

[andyjo24]

but still, as fans, we want her to do something cool that would not make us feel cheated by judges as when she gets a 9 in performance for her current programs

I think she needs to change coaches. I'm pretty sure Frank and Lori are only interested in making her into a princess.

Gracie needs to choose music that she would enjoy skating to. Only then will we see an actual performance from her.

 

[mrrice]

These have been great comments regarding Gracie. Having been of fan of hers for a long time, I just want Gracie to skate up to her potential. She has moments of sheer brilliance and then......Boom, Down a flip. It's frustrating for her fans and I'm sure it drives Frank up the wall. Michelle's flip was often a nightmare for her and I'm sure has "Flash Back's" every time Gracie misses it. Add me to the Loop club. It's safer and with the strength of Gracie's LP, what she needs at these big events is a Clean Short Program. Momentum.........Going into the long is crucial to her success.

 

[Tutto]

I don't think it is fair to say that Gracie has no musicality because she has - look at her Chicago exp. It is just in competition her nerves make her freeze. When she finds the way to overcome this, we will see different Gracie.

 

[andyjo24]

Thank you for starting this thread!

1. Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
- Pros: Excellent jumping technique. 3A. And most importantly, consistency.
- Cons: Not showing a new style in terms of music, choreography, and costume. Limited ice coverage and not necessarily the fastest skater.

Overall, I will give her first due to her consistency and superb jumps.

2. Evgenia Medvedeva
- Pros: Unique, delicate style. Consistency. Tano ability.
- Cons: New to seniors. Not the best jumping technique. Needs to work on speed and SS. Too much tano-ing.

I will give Evgenia second due to her consistency recently as well as unique style. I have a feeling she will do extremely well despite it being her first season. I am not a fan of hers yet, but I gotta give it to her. This girl knows how to compete.

3. Mao Asada
- Pros: Mature, lovely skating. Lines and flexbility. 3A (when fully-rotated and landed). Reputation.
- Cons: Inconsistency. Not too sure how well she will come back. UR Problems. Edge problems.

I would give Mao 1st if she goes fully clean with her programs, but IMO, that is very unlikely. I am so happy she is coming back. Her skating is beautiful to watch as always.

4. Satoko Miyahara
Pros: Consistency. Good SS and musicality. Beautiful FS program this season. Reigning world silver medalist reputation boost.
Cons: Extremely small, prerotated jumps. Her skating looks small compared to other skaters.

I love Satoko's FS this season! It has so many nuances, and the music is beautifully peaceful. But I must say that her jumps have been preventing me from appreciating her fully. But due to her consistency, I will still give her a high placement.

5. Elena Radionova
Pros: Consistency. Fire in her skating. Excellent Biellmann.
Cons: Bad posture. Bad programs this season. Still gives a junior vibe.

Elena is so joyful, and I can definitely see that she loves to skate. She is also very consistent, which is a big plus. However, her programs suck this season, which is a minus.

Honorable Mentions

IMO, 6th to 12th place can vary greatly. However, this is my brief opinion.

6. Gracie Gold (Good jumps, but I'm placing her here due to severe headcasing problems, which I'm not too optimistic about...)
7. Ashley Wagner (Good presentation but not the best SS and jumps and tends to make mistakes in the biggest competitions)
8. Rika Hongo (Very consistent, but something seems to be lacking. Nonetheless, I definitely think she would get into the top 10).
9. Polina Edmunds (Consistent compared to other American skaters but has edge and UR problems, which I think will affect her).
10. Yulia Lipnitskaya (Nice spins and extremely nice SP, but I don't think her jumps are back, which will cause her serious problems in the FS. Her confidence in the 13-14 season has completely disappeared unfortunately).
11. So Youn Park (A huge question mark, but if she can find some consistency this season, she can be someone to watch out for. She has very solid jumping technique and musicality. All she needs to do is pull it together. She hasn't announced her music yet, but I did read that she will be using fierce, powerful music for the FS in order to showcase something completely different from the usual delicate style she has).
12. Adelina Sotnikova (It seems her artistry improved due to Dancing With The Stars, but it's too exaggerated for my taste. I would give her a -15 for the FS ending... I also don't think her jumps are completely back).

Haha. I feel proud for putting Evgenia among the top unlike many others who thought she wasn't going to do that well in her 1st senior season.

Too bad about Liza though....

 

[mrrice]

I think she needs to change coaches. I'm pretty sure Frank and Lori are only interested in making her into a princess.

Gracie needs to choose music that she would enjoy skating to. Only then will we see an actual performance from her.

Here's the thing...At this point in her Career, like Ashley, Gracie is a star in the US. If She were to change coaches, she'd need to head out of the US. Every decent coach in the states already has a "Diva" of their own. Where would you send Gracie if she were to leave Frank?