2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[Figure 8's]

Sad for Alina. Expectations were so high for her. Probably very tired as all the skaters seemed to be.
I thought Bradie did very well being her first worlds. She will improve as the things she needs to work on are far easier than getting the jumps right. Being U.S champ should bring her more sponsors and money to get better Chirography and costuming. I did not think Mirai skated all that bad. But I thought she should have gone for the triple axel in both her programs as that is what gave her the edge. All in all, it was very typical Worlds after the Olympics.

 

[Figure 8's]

I know she won't leave but, I think Karen needs better coaching. She has so many qualities but she hasn't seemed to put them all together this season. She's still young and I don't like that people seem to be writing her off this early in her career.

What Karen needs is someone who can make her a good pair of boots. She seems to always have boot problems. Other than that she has the goods to be a very good skater. Just needs to start putting it all together.

 

[NAOTMAA]

And why is nobody mentioning Karen in who will get a spot next year? She could easily be the top US lady if she gets her jumps figured out. REALLY hope she works with a specialist over off season.

Everybody hopes Karen can get her act together. Even with all her problems she still got the bronze at nationals and the highest PCS marks of the American ladies in Korea so clearly the USFSA and international judges love her. They're waiting for her to put it together just as fans are.

As for Karen figuring out the jumps and working during the off season with a specialist, or such, judging from this past month I'd be shocked if she did. From what I've seen she still seems to be crazily clinging to the boot excuse as the main reason why she's failed this season. Another poster here even said before nationals that Karen barely acknowledges that she has a ur problem. Either she's completely stubborn delusional or is for some wacked out reason publicly blaming the boots but privately admits the truth (what she gains from that I got no clue). At this moment I only see her pushing though it hoping it magically comes together like it did at last years nationals and worlds. When you don't admit the problem you can't fix it.

But realistically Karen will of course remain a contender because she's got the talent to go real far, the fed. and judges love her style, and there is hardly any real alternatives at the moment to push her down the standings (really they would need her to have meltdowns plus other skaters have the skates of their lives to push her below the top 4).

 

[frida80]

Mirai didn't exactly come through for Team America this time. Worse yet, she didn't even try.

It's so frustrating that people don't get how hard a 3A is. It's a jump that's here today and gone tomorrow. Mirai had a choice, try the jump and make a error risking an under rotation or do the 2A and try her best.

Earlier this week in practice her 3A wasn't working. Sometimes these major jumps just have bad days. In CoR, Nathan's 4Lo wasn't cooperating and popped every time. So he took it out for a more consistent quad. At the Olympics her 3A wasn't working but she did left them in anyway and it was a disaster. It was a good decision, since Shin Amano never ratifies 3As. It's very sad that after nailing her triple triples in multiple competitions it gets called here.

New jumps are ridiculously inconsistent. Remember Yuzuru landed a perfect 4Lo and it took months of competing before he could landed another clean. Brian Orser said the first year with a new jump is the hardest. The stress of landing it affects the entire program. It's unrealistic to expect Mirai to land 3A every time.

Mirai's score is 13 points lower than it would've been if Shin wasn't there. Bradie would've gotten a higher score as well.

 

[ruffledgrouse]

Thought this might be interesting. Former competitive American skater, Jamie Jo (Burns is her married name) talks about her abusive coach who verbally and physically abused his skaters, and her friend who had anorexia.
My abusive figure skating life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM0KLcgHsLo

Verbal abuse from coach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM0KLcgHsLo&t=3m40s


Physical abuse from coach. He secretly took Jamie to a secluded room for "off-ice choreography lessons" but he started hitting her. Later, her coach billed her mother $400 for the sessions in which he beat her. He also choreographed only half of her program, and she had to make up her program on the spot at competitions. Eventually her mother fired him and he socially shunned Jamie. However, because he was a very popular and respected coach, when he started shunning her, everyone else at the rink started shunning her too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM0KLcgHsLo&t=4m47s


Her friend almost died due to anorexia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM0KLcgHsLo&t=7m28s


Jamie said that competitive figure skating made her lose her innocence and had long-term effects.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM0KLcgHsLo&t=9m05s

Jamie is one of my favorite Youtubers. She's such a sweet girl and thiss video and the others where she talks about being bullied break my heart. Just let the poor girl make her cute unpretentious art and let her be! :sad21:

 

[zanadude]

Mirai's score is 13 points lower than it would've been if Shin wasn't there. Bradie would've gotten a higher score as well.

Blaming an official for poor performance just reeks of desperation.

Maybe she would have also failed trying the triple axel, but history judges those that go down swinging much kinder than those that stand there looking pretty while the ball sails past them.

Mirai wasn't skating for America today. She was skating for herself.

 

[frida80]

Blaming an official for poor performance just reeks of desperation.

Maybe she would have also failed trying the triple axel, but history judges those that go down swinging much kinder than those that stand there looking pretty while the ball sails past them.

Mirai wasn't skating for America today. She was skating for herself.

It doesn’t reek of desperation if you understood his history. The bottom line is Mirai’s combos in the FS were clean. They’ve been called clean all season. Shin is famous for calling jumps that no one else would call under.

If Mirai fell or popped her axels her scores would’ve been much lower. She made a pragmatic decision. If she was skating for herself, she would’ve gone for the 3As, because she wouldn’t have cared if her rank fell lower. In th beginning of the season she said she would go for the 3A in every competition because she had nothing to lose. She took them out because now she did have something to lose.

Mirai gets the raw deal. For years, people whined about her under rotations. Then they whined about her blank face. Then they complained not that she even attempted the 3A and were convinced that she couldn’t do it. Suddenly she nails it once and all her detractors want her to do it every time perfectly. Just sad.

Just two weeks ago, Rika Kihara, who landed two perfect 3As in competition at Japanese Nationals popped both of her axels in JW. It cost her any chance at a podium placement. What if she just tried one axel? With risky jumps like these there’s is always cost. Oh and Alexandra Trusova? She may have landed two quads at JW but she lost Russian Junior Nationals by falling on her 4S.

Mirai and Tom Z knew her 3A wouldn’t happen this week. Maybe it was her boots or just a bad ice, but unlike so many competitions she couldn’t land it in practice. That’s meant, that she’d fail in competition. Judges hate programs that have major falls and tank the PCS scores accordingly.

Mirai was skating for America. She tried her best to do two clean programs. Even though it was by judged Shin Amano. I hope she continues next year in spite of him. She shouldn’t let his insanity define the end of her career.

 

[skatespin]

I don't see why people are bashing Mirai. She literally did a better program here at world's than at olympics and only scored like 3 points higher!!!! Her olympic FS had two singled jumps. I didn't see any UR here, she literally did what she's been doing all year! This is ridiculous and the UR were conveniently unnoticed for some other skaters. I even noticed that they dinged Bradie's tech score...... I thought she would get close to 140. I think Mirai + Bradie actually defended 3 spots here given the performances of others but it wasn't scored that way. Somehow Gabby, Alina (with 3 falls), Sotoko, Carolina, and Maria with mistakes are all still better. Alina's score is a crime against the sport. That was a mess and yet it's still better than Mirai's nearly clean performance. She still places above Bradie. I don't see why we even bother with competitions anymore. Just hand out the medals and the placements to whoever is favored and politicked at the moment and let the other skaters know that there is no hope for them because no matter what they do certain skaters will always be put above them mistakes or not.

Also, to those bashing Mirai because she didn't try 3A. Did it ever occur to you how difficult that jump is and that she is in her mid 20s and it wasn't working for her this week and spots were on the line? Like first people bash for her taking the risk of putting it in this season and then when she takes it out she gets bashed again, like she is being lazy or something. Did you see anyone else here try 3A? Did you really think Shin A who cleary hates Mirai's jumps was ever going to call a ratified 3A for her? She could have done a beautiful one like in the Olympic Team Event and Shin A would just give it a carrot.

I love figure skating, but honestly I'm glad this season is over. I'm done with the scoring. Too bad it doesn't seem like it's going to be reformed anytime soon.



Also depressing to see the way Mirai and Ashley's seasons ended, especially since they are around retirement time. I hope Mirai at least returns and ends on a better note. So sad to see that tech score, she spent this entire season growing into a skater who doesn't UR so much, only to be kicked down.

 

[schizoanalyst]

Did you guys really think Nagasu's jumps were clean? Did you watch it back? I don’t mean that dismissively, I just mean that, to me, in real time, no playback, I thought all the triples but the opening 3F and 3S were very suspect and probably under. Watching back just now, I agree with all of the calls. You could dispute the (e) on the lutz and argue for a (!), but the case isn’t strong when she was clearly on an inside edge. I can’t speak to the entire season, since I don’t remember, but her jumps at Olympics and Nationals were clean and much stronger, particularly in the team event. She just didn’t get the same snap today. I don’t think it’s a huge crisis though, she probably just hasn’t been able to train the same with all the post-Olympics media and buzz and just the general difficulties of ramping up training after such an emotionally tasking event. I admire her enormously for what’s she’s achieved running into the Olympics and correcting the historical rotation problems with her skating - something very difficult to do so late in your career. I think her problems today were more of a blip than a return to her previous form.

As for not skating for Team USA. First, all of these people are skating for themselves mostly, but I think she is here in large part to try to hold onto spots. Let’s also remember if she had faltered in the team event, Italy could’ve easily taken the Bronze, so she’s done plenty for Team USA if you ask me.

And as for not attempting the 3A, I don’t understand why anyone would criticize her for that. She thought she’d do better without the jump so she didn’t do it, what is there to criticize here?

And one final note - I don't think it's some major crisis we only have 2 spots next year. If the team is, again, Nagasu and Tennell I think we'd get three next time simply because Nagasu will be trained and prepared and not running off the Olympic high and Tennell will probably have better programs.

 

[FGE198]

Speaking of Mirai and Shin Amano, can someone honestly please explain to me why Shin Amano is an ISU specialist? In other sports, specialists usually have had a certain modicum of success in the sport. Shin Amano medaled once at Japan Nationals where he won Gold and then competed at Worlds where he placed 28th!! He never medaled again in singles in Japan. He also won Japan Nationals ONCE in Pairs and then competed in the Olympics where they placed 20th! He was a very mediocre skater at best and in my opinion he should not be the specialist at a World Championships.

I have been very suspicious of him since the 2016-2017 Grand Prix where at the Cup of China he went ballistic on Ashley Wagner with calls. It was problematic because of the fact that it knocked Ashley out of the Grand Prix finals and put his countrywoman Satoko Miyahara (who was on the bubble) into the 6th position (and it worked as Satoko won Silver that year). It seemed very calculated and it looked suspicious. He is inconsistent and relentless but in ways that make it look biased and suspicious. At the end of the day I just don't understand how someone who was such a weak skater can be in such a high level, important position. I could understand it if someone like Takeshi Honda was a specialist but not him.

 

[skatinggold]

I am just wondering why Tammy’s and Tom’s student have underrotation problems. Vincent has underrotation problems and so does Mirai. Can the US get a jumps coach who specializes in jumps. It is just so hard to believe someone who jumps as high as Karen would have underrotation problems. I just don’t understand why she just doesn’t prerotate and why delay her rotation so long. She needs to prerotate the heck out of it like Evgenia, mihyara, and most of the top ladies.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I am just wondering why Tammy’s and Tom’s student have underrotation problems. Vincent has underrotation problems and so does Mirai. Can the US get a jumps coach who specializes in jumps. It is just so hard to believe someone who jumps as high as Karen would have underrotation problems. I just don’t understand why she just doesn’t prerotate and why delay her rotation so long. She needs to prerotate the heck out of it like Evgenia, mihyara, and most of the top ladies.

We do: His name is Frank Carroll.


To a degree Tom is also one.

When it comes down to it the coach can only do so much, if the skater is prone to UR's, and they aren't busting their butts to correct it then that's on the skater.

 

[klutzy]

I think Bradie got dinged at Worlds because, once again, she had to skate before everybody else. If her beautiful clean skate had been, say, in the final group, I think she'd have placed higher. Judges are human--and all the skaters in the final group have much bigger reputations than she does. I don't think anyone was expecting the lack of clean skates. I think Mirai was also hurt by this.

I think Bradie will continue to climb up. Today I notice some quiet little efforts at acting. I think she's getting a little more confident and starting to perform more. I think she's shy more than insensitive to things like acting and music. I know she's 20, but she has so little experience on the international scene--she really has had an astonishing season. At the beginning of it, she was on the radar, but in the same way that Angela Wang, Amber Glenn and Courtney Hicks are--some potential that might or might not pan out. I think she has the nerves, talent and ambition to medal at Worlds. I think if she'd been around last season, she'd have medalled today. And, yeah, better costumes and drop the Disney (though I don't hate the FS the way a lot of you do.)

Karen Chen, IMO, has a serious case of immaturity. Not that surprising. I'm sure she's a perfectionist, so that, too, comes into play. She is young and she'll grow up. Just hope she and her family will make some good choices so she improves.

I don't see Ashley coming back if she has other good opportunities. If she wanted to keep skating, I think she would have tried to get to Worlds. I don't see her staying for another quad.

Mirai might be around for another year or two, but she's met a lot of her goals--made history with the Triple Axel at the Olympics, won team bronze. To move up the ranks, at this point, she'd have to really work on the PCS and transitions--I'm not sure that's her thing, since she's known to drop choreography.

As for regaining three spots, I can see a few ways that could happen--I think Bradie will be rewarded in PCS simply by getting better costuming and music--so move her into the top 5. Then you need a skater capable getting to eight--Karen Chen on a good day with good boots could do that. So could a well Polina. Mariah Bell, of course, though that girl seems to have everything, but the ability to keep it together under pressure. Mirai with the 3-A.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I think Bradie got dinged at Worlds because, once again, she had to skate before everybody else. If her beautiful clean skate had been, say, in the final group, I think she'd have placed higher. Judges are human--and all the skaters in the final group have much bigger reputations than she does. I don't think anyone was expecting the lack of clean skates. I think Mirai was also hurt by this.

I think Bradie will continue to climb up. Today I notice some quiet little efforts at acting. I think she's getting a little more confident and starting to perform more. I think she's shy more than insensitive to things like acting and music. I know she's 20, but she has so little experience on the international scene--she really has had an astonishing season. At the beginning of it, she was on the radar, but in the same way that Angela Wang, Amber Glenn and Courtney Hicks are--some potential that might or might not pan out. I think she has the nerves, talent and ambition to medal at Worlds. I think if she'd been around last season, she'd have medalled today. And, yeah, better costumes and drop the Disney (though I don't hate the FS the way a lot of you do.)

Karen Chen, IMO, has a serious case of immaturity. Not that surprising. I'm sure she's a perfectionist, so that, too, comes into play. She is young and she'll grow up. Just hope she and her family will make some good choices so she improves.

I don't see Ashley coming back if she has other good opportunities. If she wanted to keep skating, I think she would have tried to get to Worlds. I don't see her staying for another quad.

Mirai might be around for another year or two, but she's met a lot of her goals--made history with the Triple Axel at the Olympics, won team bronze. To move up the ranks, at this point, she'd have to really work on the PCS and transitions--I'm not sure that's her thing, since she's known to drop choreography.

As for regaining three spots, I can see a few ways that could happen--I think Bradie will be rewarded in PCS simply by getting better costuming and music--so move her into the top 5. Then you need a skater capable getting to eight--Karen Chen on a good day with good boots could do that. So could a well Polina. Mariah Bell, of course, though that girl seems to have everything, but the ability to keep it together under pressure. Mirai with the 3-A.

Bradie got dinged because she had UR's: Nothing more, nothing less. Also better music and costumes don't equal good PCS, she needs to actually feel her choreography and move with it, be less stiff.

 

[xeyra]

Can people stop blaming Shin Amano for every call? He wasn't even the tech specialist, he was the assistant. The tech specialist is the one first marking jumps for review. And it takes two to tango, so at least two people in a tech panel have to agree on calls.

 

[skatinggold]

Well they are already giving Bradie higher PCS(political or pretty connected scores), it is just a matter of time she will be getting the PCS that Gracie gold was getting. Bradie and Gracie pretty much skates the same with no style of whatever. Except Bradie is consistent which Gracie never was. Just one is prettier and more marketable to the audience. Bradie just needs some plastic surgery done like Kylie Jenner. Maybe fix the teeth now that she’s national champion and she will be a superstar. If looks didn't matter in figure skating, we wouldn't have so many skaters with eating disorders.

 

[oatmella]

I was quite impressed with Bradie today - I saw more subtle nuances in her choreo, she looked less stiff and her jumps looked very good. Hoping she continues the upward momentum next season.
I still can't get over that Karen complained about not being able to be around her mom 24/7 at the Olympics. Between blaming that and the boots - she just seems very immature and needs to learn to take more personal responsibility. I don't see how withdrawing from worlds because of (yet again) boot issues is going to help her - she is getting a reputation of being unreliable. She's probably gone through most of the boot brands at this point - my younger cousin is reading her book and was telling me that she went through so so so many boots - so I don't know what she will do. I don't know her financial situation, but going through boots at a rate far faster than even Nathan with his quads would be very pricey. I'm not sure she can count on getting another company to sponsor her and get free boots.
I think Ashley is moving on to other opportunities like Adam.

 

[WineHerUp]

And why is nobody mentioning Karen in who will get a spot next year? She could easily be the top US lady if she gets her jumps figured out. REALLY hope she works with a specialist over off season.

I would love for Karen to get a spot next year. Even with all of her technical issues and inconsistency, she's still the only US lady who has wowed me since Gracie. I think she's more naturally talented than the other American ladies but something clearly needs to change with her training if she wants to progress as a skater.

 

[bubblecherry]

Mirai didn't exactly come through for Team America this time. Worse yet, she didn't even try.

I'm not sure why my post got deleted but I'll try again.

This is so ridiculous. Really? She didn't try because she didn't do a 3A?

Here are Mirai's practice notes from 3/19 via Jackie Wong

Practice notes
Mirai Nagasu: 3T, 3F3T, 3F3T, 3Lz, 3Lz2T, 3S3T, 2A3T2T, 2A, 2A, 1A, 3A(turn), 3A(turn), 3A(2ft), 3A(step), runthru (2A, 3F(fall), 3S, 2A3T2T, 3Lz2T, 3F, 3Lo), 3F3T
https://t.co/ZWwX5rthTq #WorldFigure #Milano2018

3/20 via Jackie Wong

Practice notes
Mirai Nagasu: 2A, 3T, 3Lo, 3F(ur,fall), 3F3T, runthru (2A, 3F3T, 3Lo), 2A, 2A, 3Lo, 3F3T, 3Lz3T, 3Lz3T, 3S3T, 3F3T, 3F3T, 2A3T2T, 2A, 1A, 3A(fall), 3F3T
https://t.co/ZWwX5rKSKY #WorldFigure #Milano2018

Her 3A was NOT happening in Italy. She tried it and had major mistakes EVERY time. She didn't "give up" because it was the "easier" choice. She kept practicing it and couldn't make it work. Jumps aren't easy. A 3A is the hardest jump attempted in the current seniors ladies competitions. Heck, most ladies have trouble with their 2A and Mirai's is amazing. Why would she go for it in her programs when she couldn't do it clean in practice all week? She started training the day she got back from the Oscars, I don't understand what more you people she could've done. She wanted to do the 3A in Italy, tried it over and over in practice, and it wasn't working. That's it.

Relative to her past skates, she had a great skate today. She wasn't able to be competitive with the top ladies this time, but she did what she could do.

 

[klutzy]

Bradie got dinged because she had UR's: Nothing more, nothing less. Also better music and costumes don't equal good PCS, she needs to actually feel her choreography and move with it, be less stiff.

Bradie's stiffness is above the waist, her actual skating and flow in and out of jumps isn't. A good choreographer will help her with that. She does feel the music--she tends to be very on the beat and I get the clear sense that she knows what she's supposed to be expressing--but she doesn't project it yet--I think it's because she's a bit introverted, but also because a lot of her focus has been on getting the technique rock solid.

And I disagree with you on the nothing-more-nothing-less. I don't think the judging was unfair, but there's always a subjective element in a judged sport--it does depend when you skate and expectation. At Nationals, for example, Polina E. and Bradie both skated early, then tons of skaters blew it. There ended up being these odd gaps in the scoring--it was pretty clear the judges had mentally left room to squeeze in skaters who then didn't manage. There's still a bit of the ordinals mentality after all this time