2021 World Team Trophy: Thoughts and observations

[CarolPooh]

I’m sorry I don’t remember. It possibly wasn’t even in Japan. I do remember all the cell phones though

Sorry if my tone was harsh, I didn't mean to. If filming was allowed, I am sure you would see phone cameras all over the place haha.

 

[eppen]

The team events have been with us now for a decade, but I still think they're mostly dull and meaningless. There are so few countries that can produce an entire competetive team to begin with. This one also favors heavily countries with single skaters (ie Japan) that the actual team part becomes somewhat meaningless.

Maybe teams of mixed nationalities with roughly equal skaters could actually be interesting?

E

 

[moonvine]

Sorry if my tone was harsh, I didn't mean to. If filming was allowed, I am sure you would see phone cameras all over the place haha.

You weren’t harsh. He was not performing. He was warming up or practicing. The reason I remember is because all the tv cameras were filming all the Hanyu fans filming Hanyu. It was weird.

 

[Kypma]

PC didn't participate when France did have an outside shot at the podium in 2018... not sure they will want to participate with a much lesser chance of a medal...(weak pairs and ladies)

If I understand the rules correctly, France only has one Olympic spot in dance, since Adelina GALYAVIEVA / Louis THAURON and Evgeniia LOPAREVA / Geoffrey BRISSAUD were 16th and 17th, respectively, at worlds (ie outside the top 12 where both teams made the free). Barring anything truly unforeseen, Papadakis and Cizeron will get the Olympic spot, and since France will have only one dance team at the event, they must participate in the team portion as well. This situation would be similar to the American team in 2018 where their sole pairs representative (the Knierims) had to skate the team and individual events back to back because they had no other team qualified.

 

[CarolPooh]

You weren’t harsh. He was not performing. He was warming up or practicing. The reason I remember is because all the tv cameras were filming all the Hanyu fans filming Hanyu. It was weird.

Then it's probably outside of Japan I guess.

 

[4everchan]

If I understand the rules correctly, France only has one Olympic spot in dance, since Adelina GALYAVIEVA / Louis THAURON and Evgeniia LOPAREVA / Geoffrey BRISSAUD were 16th and 17th, respectively, at worlds (ie outside the top 12 where both teams made the free). Barring anything truly unforeseen, Papadakis and Cizeron will get the Olympic spot, and since France will have only one dance team at the event, they must participate in the team portion as well. This situation would be similar to the American team in 2018 where their sole pairs representative (the Knierims) had to skate the team and individual events back to back because they had no other team qualified.

yup.. you are correct. I forgot about that. So, if P/C do not want to participate to the team event, then France will be out... They also only have one pairs, they need to qualify one lady at Nebelhorn... the job is not done for them... thought they would have enough points for sure and would be allowed to bring a lady if it didn't happen at Nebelhorn... (If i remember correctly, a team may be allowed to complete their roster if they didn't qualify in one discipline but have enough points for top 10 to qualify for the games)

 

[4everchan]

The team events have been with us now for a decade, but I still think they're mostly dull and meaningless. There are so few countries that can produce an entire competetive team to begin with. This one also favors heavily countries with single skaters (ie Japan) that the actual team part becomes somewhat meaningless.

Maybe teams of mixed nationalities with roughly equal skaters could actually be interesting?

E

they have done that before... having a team made of skaters who are not from big nations... it was still boring the olympic team event is interesting because it values all 4 disciplines.... but that doesn't solve what you are referring to.

 

[Weathergal]

Day 3 thoughts:
Pairs
Once again I found the French pair Hamon / Strekalin a delight! Also there's no mistaking their program music even before it's posted on the screen - her costume is perfect for "The Fifth Element," and her hairstyle is also a great fit!

Other takeaways - the Miura / Kihara and Knierim / Frazier are the real deal. I look forward to seeing how they develop for next season but hope for stronger FS program choices for both.

Mishina / Galliamov continue to impress. Love this couple and hope they continue their success next season!

Ladies
It's exciting to see the potential in the Italian ladies skaters. Both Negrello and Gutmann really feel the music. I thought Negrello in particular has lovely arms, and I like Gutmann's "Scheherezade." She used some different cuts than most skaters do, and really got into character.

Karen was lovely, even with a few errors, and Bradie skated the best FS I've seen her skate.

It was to see Rika struggle, but my understanding is she's injured. I hope she heals during the off season and comes roaring back next season. It will be interesting to see if she continues to train with Lambiel, goes back to Japan, or goes to Orser.

Kaori was sensational in both the SP and FS. It was great to see her shine.

And both Russian ladies did not disappoint. How I'd love to see Liza continue her success next season!

 

[Colonel Green]

yup.. you are correct. I forgot about that. So, if P/C do not want to participate to the team event, then France will be out... They also only have one pairs, they need to qualify one lady at Nebelhorn... the job is not done for them... thought they would have enough points for sure and would be allowed to bring a lady if it didn't happen at Nebelhorn... (If i remember correctly, a team may be allowed to complete their roster if they didn't qualify in one discipline but have enough points for top 10 to qualify for the games)

France hasn't qualified a pair either, so they need to get a pair or a lady at Nebelhorn to make the team event. If they get one, they can bring the other just for the team event.

 

[GoneWithTheWind]

I really enjoyed WTT and always love how supportive and respectful the Japanese spectators are, cheering for all the skaters.

My particular highlights:
Guignard/Fabbri gaining a new PB with their gorgeous free dance and proving they're firmly in the top-tier in ice dance.
Also, their exhibition

The whole pairs competition but especially:
Miura/Kihara gaining a new PB in the free with a lovely skate and their reaction (and Team Japan's reaction) to it.
Hamon/Strekalin's quirky and fun programs, really hope they can earn an Olympic spot at Nebelhorn.
Scimeca/Frazier also gaining a big new PB, I look forward to seeing them again next season.
Matte/Ferland's lifts (esp. the first one in the free skate).

Shcherbakova, Chen and Mishina/Galliamov all delivering programs that showed why they're World champions. Sinitsina/Katsalapov unfortunately lost a few levels compared to Worlds, but I still enjoyed their performances (especially the RD).

Team Italy winning the 'Team Spirit' award and placing 4th despite being one man down.

Other Thoughts:
It was tough to watch Hawayek/Baker being so unhappy with their score again, I'm hoping they can come out next season and deliver performances they're happy with.
Della Monica/Guarise did deliver two more clean programs here to end their rather rough season, but fell behind the Americans and Japanese in the free. They didn't look overly confident in either program. I hope they can fully regroup next season and find their pre-2019/20 season form.

 

[eppen]

they have done that before... having a team made of skaters who are not from big nations... it was still boring the olympic team event is interesting because it values all 4 disciplines.... but that doesn't solve what you are referring to.

Alas, right, I forgot that one, can't even remember if I watched it... But it still had geography as the main factor in selecting the teams which means that the they're not going to be that easy to make even (like weakish Asian ice dance, European ladies, European men, etc). Plus I could not find any principles as to how the teams were made up in 2016 - like Javi and Yuzu were not in that one, for example.

I was thinking of teams without regard to nationality or even geography, just making sure that overall the teams are somewhat equal. That would ofc lose the kind of national or continental patriotic interest/motivation that drives a lot of sports, so don't know if it would work in the end.

E

 

[el henry]

Alas, right, I forgot that one, can't even remember if I watched it... But it still had geography as the main factor in selecting the teams which means that the they're not going to be that easy to make even (like weakish Asian ice dance, European ladies, European men, etc). Plus I could not find any principles as to how the teams were made up in 2016 - like Javi and Yuzu were not in that one, for example.

I was thinking of teams without regard to nationality or even geography, just making sure that overall the teams are somewhat equal. That would ofc lose the kind of national or continental patriotic interest/motivation that drives a lot of sports, so don't know if it would work in the end.

E

They do it with the juniors.

In the Junior Olympics in Lausanne, the team event was made up of participants from different countries regardless of geography. My babies Utashin won a gold medal. They skated with a Russian lady, Estonian man and Georgian pairs. The silver team had Yuma Kagiyama, ladies and pairs from the USA and ice dancers from Russia. I believe the skaters were assigned randomly without any consideration to their "standing" or country.

I quite enjoyed it, but it looks like we we are on different planets when it comes to figure skating .

WTT is a semi cheesefest, but it is fun and I quite liked many of the performances.
and Jason Brown is the one of the best storytellers and interpreters on the ice and this year, with Sinnerman, one of the best ever. And you can't change my mind

So given we disagree on those topics, we might not agree on mixed team events.

 

[slider11]

I'm disappointed in the judges' scoring of Hawayek and Baker's FD; down from Worlds. Time for some self-reflection as to what they can do better to reach the next tier. It might be working more on technical elements or maybe have the choreography better scrutinized. Or maybe new coaches? The Lanes and Ragu?

 

[GoneWithTheWind]

I'm disappointed in the judges' scoring of Hawayek and Baker's FD; down from Worlds. Time for some self-reflection as to what they can do better to reach the next tier. It might be working more on technical elements or maybe have the choreography better scrutinized. Or maybe new coaches? The Lanes and Ragu?

I'm not sure they'd move coaches just before the Olympic season, and they seem very happy in Montreal. But, if they plan on going another 4 years, maybe a move straight after Worlds 2022?
I could see them going to the Lanes, especially if Piper and Paul retire.
I've also seen people suggest H/B move to Barbara Fusar Poli before and I can see that working too, if Guignard/Fabbri retire post-2022. Barbara is great at the technical side, and has experience with Charlene and Marco's lack of height difference, which could be helpful to H/B.

 

[ice coverage]

... I was thinking of teams without regard to nationality or even geography, just making sure that overall the teams are somewhat equal. ...

In the Junior Olympics in Lausanne, the team event was made up of participants from different countries regardless of geography. .... I believe the skaters were assigned randomly without any consideration to their "standing" or country.

In a good way, "standings" do play a role in how Youth Olympic Game teams are formed -- the point being to create somewhat equal teams.
"Standings" meaning placements from YOG competition in individual disciplines (which takes place before the team event).

It is pre-determined that each team will have a mixture of placements that is somewhat balanced.

For each discipline, placements from competition in individual disciplines are divided into three groups. Group 1: highest placements, Group 2: middle placements, Group 3: lowest placements.
The combination of groups for each team is pre-announced long before YOG starts (in other words, long before knowing which specific skaters will achieve which placements in the individual disciplines).​

In addition, there is an element of randomness in how teams are formed:

After competition in individual disciplines has ended, there are draws to determine which exact placements (within the pre-designated groups) will belong to which teams.​

The team event has been held every time since the first edition of YOG in 2012.
The YOG announcements show the placements that were pre-designated for each team.
For example, see page 3 of the 2020 YOG announcement: https://www.isu.org/docman-document...ification-systems-2/17989-figure-skating/file

How the process works:

- For 2020 YOG, it was designated long in advance that Team 6 would have a man from Group 3; a lady from Group 1; pair from Group 2; dancers from Group 2.
- Group 2 dancers were placements 5 - 8 from the individual competition.
- After completion of the individual disciplines, a draw determined which specific placement from Group 2 dancers would belong to Team 6. Etc., etc., etc.
- After the draws, Team 6 ended up consisting of 14th place man (Nalbone ITA) + 3rd place lady (Frolova RUS) + 5th place pair (Wang/Huang CHN) + 7th place dancers (Cherniavska/Muratov UKR)​

ETA:

Team 6 (aka Team Future) ended up placing 7th out of 8.
The team in first place earned 24 points total; second place earned 22.
Third place and fourth place both earned 18.
Fifth place earned 17.
Sixth place, seventh place, and eighth place all earned 15.​

 

[el henry]

Team USA says goodbye to Japan and Osaka in Japanese, along with Jason's Japanese tweet:

https://twitter.com/jasonbskates/status/1383755225249456134

(My understanding is that Jason prepared the script, and maybe taught the phonetics to his teammates? At least he did with the first Team USA in Japanese post, so I'm assuming he did here. And the notes at the end, even if I haven't a clue what they say)

 

[4everchan]

Alas, right, I forgot that one, can't even remember if I watched it... But it still had geography as the main factor in selecting the teams which means that the they're not going to be that easy to make even (like weakish Asian ice dance, European ladies, European men, etc). Plus I could not find any principles as to how the teams were made up in 2016 - like Javi and Yuzu were not in that one, for example.

I was thinking of teams without regard to nationality or even geography, just making sure that overall the teams are somewhat equal. That would ofc lose the kind of national or continental patriotic interest/motivation that drives a lot of sports, so don't know if it would work in the end.

E

and skaters would compete for what? sponsors? that's the only thing I can see... it won't happen. They have started something a bit similar to this in swimming. Sponsors put teams together for the world cup of swimming. I have watched some of it, as actually, swimming is the sport i did competitively, so i still am following it a bit.... We could compare swimming to figure skating as other than at the Olympics, it gets very little attention. So the International Swimming league was born... it's great for the athletes as they get to compete, for a team, not really a country but a sponsor. What is interesting too : some swimmers are "semi-retired" so in other words, they are professional athletes. Surprisingly enough, depending on the race and the format, some of the pros sometimes are just as good if not better than some of the Olympic athletes. So, if we compare this to figure skating, it would be having pro-am events with teams linked by a sponsor, blades and boots seem obvious... unless some other sportsgear equipment (no idea...training gear???) would like to get in there.....

BUT... after all of that, I still found the International swimming league somewhat boring compared to other competitions like worlds or Olympics. I think it is completely normal to have national affiliation with athletes... and I can understand how one may feel if they come from a smaller country... Swimming in Canada isn't doing so well in men (girls are rocking it!!!!!) but i still cheer for them and still love the sport. There is more to wearing a maple leaf on a speedo. If I were to only love figure skating because Canada produces champions, I wouldn't have watched the B team at this WTT. Sorry, I am tired and don't feel like editing... but i think everything is half clear in what I am saying. One last example : i love gymnastics... i will watch Tokyo event if Canada did not qualify a team in the men event.. it's okay... the team event will be exciting with the other countries taking part...
In Athens, Canada didn't have a men team in gymnastics. However, Kyle Shewfelt won the floor... and it was just as good

 

[4everchan]

I'm not sure they'd move coaches just before the Olympic season, and they seem very happy in Montreal. But, if they plan on going another 4 years, maybe a move straight after Worlds 2022?
I could see them going to the Lanes, especially if Piper and Paul retire.
I've also seen people suggest H/B move to Barbara Fusar Poli before and I can see that working too, if Guignard/Fabbri retire post-2022. Barbara is great at the technical side, and has experience with Charlene and Marco's lack of height difference, which could be helpful to H/B.

well... hopefully piper and paul still have some time ahead of them... .BUT i am not sure Chock and Bates do... and I am not sure about FBS either... It could get very lonely at the top in Montreal ... same with H/D... they could also retire... If they love Montreal, they should stay... If they want something else, I would move right away.. and then be accustomed to my new environment RIGHT at the beginning of the new cycle. The year after everyone retires is crucial for anyone wanting to climb up in the pecking order.

 

[4everchan]

France hasn't qualified a pair either, so they need to get a pair or a lady at Nebelhorn to make the team event. If they get one, they can bring the other just for the team event.

OMG... i forgot about that... wow.. the road to the team event is getting harder for them... the good news is that their team performed relatively well at WTT despite having terrible costumes and music (sorry I wasn't a fan of their packaging)

 

[anonymoose_au]

I'm disappointed in the judges' scoring of Hawayek and Baker's FD; down from Worlds. Time for some self-reflection as to what they can do better to reach the next tier. It might be working more on technical elements or maybe have the choreography better scrutinized. Or maybe new coaches? The Lanes and Ragu?

That's so annoying though! Kaitlin and Jean Luc are amazing skaters and performers. I know I'm no ice dance expert, but it seems to me the judging of that sport is totally messed up. Like if Madi and Evan and Madi and Zach retired tomorrow suddenly Kaitlin and Jean Luc scores would leap up as the USA's "top" (by default) couple. It shouldn't be that way and TBH I'm rather appalled that it is...and that no-one's tried to fix it this entire time.