2022 ISU Congress Provisional Agenda (PCS Categories, Max/Min Age and Other Stuff)

[el henry]

I offer no opinion on what the maximum age should be for international officials.

However, I take offense at the suggestion that officials should stay home and enjoy their grandchildren.

Many people do not have grandchildren (or children) of their own. Some of them may have wanted to, but life didn't work out that way. Others may never have wanted that. For various reasons either way.

At a local level, many clubs rely on judges and other volunteers past retirement age (with or without grandchildren) to get their skaters tested, staff club-hosted competitions, and otherwise keep the clubs running when younger adult skaters and parents of skaters are too busy to volunteer their time. Some who scale back from national or international competition judging to a more local level instead, and some who don't even start judging (and therefore never reach high levels) until after retirement. I've seen a few judges still going strong locally even into their 90s.

Of course it's easier for local clubs to be aware of when it's time to stop inviting specific officials as they age.

Enjoying one’s grandchildren is a figure of speech, I did not mean to imply that every person of a certain age had grandchildren. I think I’ve lived long enough to know that.

I stand by my opinion that the maximum age for officials should not be raised. Although it would not affect me, (assuming I had the knowledge, the connections or anything else that would lead me to be a figure skating official), Spousal Unit is not so far from that age where retirement is currently mandatory.

And I am sorry, there is a time at which retirement for this position should be mandatory, and I will shake my old lady cyber cane at anyone who says different. I am certain that there are many other ways in which they could be involved in the skating community, and they could do that if they so choose.

 

[4everchan]

Honestly, i liked Zagitova’s program. Frankly, I don’t care if the jumping passes are distributed evenly or not. I just don’t like when skaters skate for a long time not doing much of anything with their arms. But some people don’t like them having active arms. As long as I get to see a lot of cool jumps, and people with high energy or big character programs and bigger jumps win, I like it. But if the mellow, whiny, spiral-laden skates go ahead, then yeah, my interest is going to drop like a stone.

very few skaters can pull off the style you describe and do not like.. i don't like it much either. As you can tell, i am a Patrick fan... he was well known to be the real first IJS skater, one who could max out on both the big jumps and skating skills.... back then, all you needed was two solid quad toes in the LP. Times have changed. Nathan and Shoma are my faves now among the contenders because they have jumps and skating skills. I think the thing that ISU did for me lately was to kill pairs development when they lowered the quad's base value.. i lost interest a bit... until Mishina Galiamov came in. But I hear you. I am not a fan of the skaters you like in the women's division, but I can understand that you are worried the changes may impact the sport... at the same time, we are all denied from these specific skaters right now at the upcoming worlds and it has nothing to do with the ISU congress...

 

[lariko]

very few skaters can pull off the style you describe and do not like.. i don't like it much either. As you can tell, i am a Patrick fan... he was well known to be the real first IJS skater, one who could max out on both the big jumps and skating skills.... back then, all you needed was two solid quad toes in the LP. Times have changed. Nathan and Shoma are my faves now among the contenders because they have jumps and skating skills. I think the thing that ISU did for me lately was to kill pairs development when they lowered the quad's base value.. i lost interest a bit... until Mishina Galiamov came in. But I hear you. I am not a fan of the skaters you like in the women's division, but I can understand that you are worried the changes may impact the sport... at the same time, we are all denied from these specific skaters right now at the upcoming worlds and it has nothing to do with the ISU congress...

We’ll see. I will dearly miss Trusova if these changes are Trusova Rules in the same way the previous ones were Zagitova rules… but I actually more because I can’t predict what impact it would have on the men’s skating. Is it preparation for post-Chen era, because it is unlikely that anyone will match his stability/precision in the current nextgen?

 

[cheerknithanson]

We’ll see. I will dearly miss Trusova if these changes are Trusova Rules in the same way the previous ones were Zagitova rules… but I actually more because I can’t predict what impact it would have on the men’s skating. Is it preparation for post-Chen era, because it is unlikely that anyone will match his stability/precision in the current nextgen?

What Trusova rules?

 

[moonvine]

I agree that Spin levels (the horrific positions) and GOE (speed, centered) are messed up. I would like congress to look into that. I have already stated to be in favour to raise the minimum age. Now I will state to be in favour of limiting the maximum age of officials. Not because I believe old age automatically makes one senile (it certainly does not) but if you're considered too old to work, you must also be considered too old to take office, With a bit of leeway of course. So, one can surpass the age of 67-68, but more than 80? Seriously? I agree that's the time to enjoy your grandchildren, you can still be an advisor. It would be best if people made that choice themselves, but it seems a maximum age is the only way to stop people from just going on for ever!

In the US I don't believe it is legal to consider someone "too old to work."

 

[lariko]

What Trusova rules?

Like, let’s devalue the TES vs PCS for women.

 

[bigsisjiejie]

In the US I don't believe it is legal to consider someone "too old to work."

There is precedent for maximum age restrictions in the USA for certain kinds of work. Commercial pilots, for instance, have a mandatory retirement age of 65, ostensibly for safety reasons. But this doesn't mean they are prohibited from doing other non-age restricted work after that age.

However, I wouldn't parallel this sort of situation with ISU officials' age restrictions, regardless of where the age limit is set.

 

[chaser]

Enjoying one’s grandchildren is a figure of speech, I did not mean to imply that every person of a certain age had grandchildren. I think I’ve lived long enough to know that.

I stand by my opinion that the maximum age for officials should not be raised. Although it would not affect me, (assuming I had the knowledge, the connections or anything else that would lead me to be a figure skating official), Spousal Unit is not so far from that age where retirement is currently mandatory.

And I am sorry, there is a time at which retirement for this position should be mandatory, and I will shake my old lady cyber cane at anyone who says different. I am certain that there are many other ways in which they could be involved in the skating community, and they could do that if they so choose.

 

[chaser]

75 is a grand age for anyone, let alone a sports official. At 75, officials have been able to officiate for decades unlike world/Olympic skaters. 75 is old enough. There will be seasoned “young” officials out there of 45 - 60. Why make them wait another five years for a bunch of grey beards? Give them a go. Surely they can’t be worse.

 

[gkelly]

Some small skating countries might not have other judges ready for ISU appointments. So if their one qualified judge retires, they won't have anyone on international panels.

In large federations there will be plenty of other qualified or ready-to-qualify officials.

 

[chuckm]

Keep the ISU retirement age as it is. People tend to gradually decline as they get past 70; eyesight and hearing aren't as acute, and they tire easily. Coming judging changes could be a challenge for the 75-to-80s.

 

[el henry]

In the US I don't believe it is legal to consider someone "too old to work."

This is true, (very broadly speaking) and of course as you already know, the ISU is neither American nor in this instance, an employer.

As someone of a certain age, I don't believe in stereotypes. People of whatever age can have physical or mental limitations, or can be sharp as a tack and fit as a fiddle. I do believe a private organization has a right to set the guidelines it wants, and my concerns are based more on "opening up" leadership positions.

I take @gkelly 's point about small feds and I think a petition for exemptions could be developed (for all I know one exists) for small feds with only one official.

Lakernik would not qualify

 

[macy]

raising the age limit: for obvious reasons,

raising max age for office holders: i agree with Phil on this one when he says "making decisions affecting athletes four generations younger does not seem in the best interests of a sport already out of touch with 21st Century entertainment tastes". i don't see any benefit of having potentially 84 year old office holders, i would much rather see healthy, younger people somewhat closer in age to the athletes making the decisions.

PCS category shrink: not sure how i feel on this one. i think it would be easier to boost a skater since there are only 3 categories.

separating the judging panels: YES PLEASE.

WC expansion: love this idea! great way to expose smaller countries to world level skating.