2023 Skate Canada: Pairs' Thoughts?

[4everchan]

I think I agree with him on this point. It seems that hosting federations sometimes will pick lower ranked skaters on the alternates list to avoid a challenge for their own skaters. This season, it's going to lead to skaters who would otherwise have a shot at the GPF (B/G and Matsuike in the women's event) not getting the chance to compete for that.

At the same time, he was invited by Skate Canada. They didn't have to invite them, especially since Skate Canada was going to give host spots to two young pairs that may have liked "protection". I think he should start by saying "thank you Skate Canada" for giving us this opportunity and we hope we can get another GP later on. He knows the rules and never complained about them when he was competing with a steady partner right? I don't like when skaters want rule changes only when it starts impacting them. Next year, they will have 2 spots and some skaters coming out of juniors or after a break (perhaps the Spanish team?) may not have any... Will he advocate to change the rules ?

As a matter of fact, Osmond won Skate Canada, and only had one GP spot. She was not invited to a second event despite the w/d. Who else but a few Canadians on this site complained about that ?

The ISU changes rules all the time... I am confident they have discussed this and didn't find a fairer alternative.

 

[apgold]

Oh Deanna! I just watched the FS at SCI and what a wonderful experience. When they're good, they are just fabulous. I am so happy for Deanna to have found Maxime and vice versa. What a couple. I thought the whole pairs FS was enjoyable, although I am not a lover of the Cats programme either. But to hear one of my old time favourites in a pairs programme (The Chain by Fleetwood Mac) was another joy. Daria and Michel might not be perfect but their music choice is just great. Excellent to hear this number this season. Great pairs evening with a superb climax.

Yes, I loved that music choice, too. I want more Fleetwood Mac programs.

Like everyone, I was thrilled for Deanna and Max to win. It was not a surprise given the field here, but their score for the FS and Deanna's reactions were priceless. I hope she gets everything she wants this season, because she is a Queen and deserves all the praise (as does Max, but she is the star of that pairing). She seemed a bit disappointed by their SP score, which I thought was reasonable so to see her scream at the 142 was just so good. Definitely the moment of the competition for me.

 

[NanaPat]

Deanna and Max threw down the gauntlet for world gold.

The cats program is jaw-droppingly terrible, which is a shame because the skaters aren't. Everyone else was about potential, with the Hungarians being the cleanest.

Live, the best part of the Cats program was the more obscure music cuts. "Memory" sounded like it was being sung by a tortured cat in the echoey arena. My ears, my ears.

 

[moonvine]

Queen Deanna!

 

[noskates]

I think Guarise has really found a good partner. The Cats program was my favorite of the event and thought they did exceptionally well for only being together a year or so. She's more delicate and seemingly has better skating skills than Monica and the size difference between Matteo and her is more pleasing IMO. I bet the Italians wish they had assigned this pair to more than 1 competition. I think I heard that Skate Canada was their only assignment?

 

[throw_triple_flip]

This was way better than Skate America. Deanna and Maxime really threw the gauntlet down here. They now look like a world class team.

I like the soft, lyrical approach in the first half of the Hungarian team's free skate. Also really liked the Dutch team's free skate. The Italian team are a great match.
The Australians seem to be struggling a bit- their twist looks kind of alarming.

Mcintosh and Mimar should be worried about Laurin and Ethier coming ahead of them as I would imagine it's between those two teams for the national bronze and those last championship spots.

And having watched the Canadian coverage on dailymotion, i think it's wonderful to hear Pair commentary from someone who really knows what they're talking about. Kristen Moore Towers did a great job.

 

[4everchan]

In any case, Guarise and partner were given NHK. So i guess the rules are still working

 

[Alla]

I'm impressed by Deanna Stellato-Dudek and Maxime Deschamps. They've been looking great and even seemed to have improved more.

The Hungarians are really a promising couple. Curious to see their further development.

Beccari/Guarise were great, too. They look good together after just a short time as a couple on the ice.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I bet the Italians wish they had assigned this pair to more than 1 competition.

But it's federations who have a GP, who get to select their own skaters for a home GP. Otherwise, it's up to other feds with GPs to choose eligible teams. At least, that's my understanding.

In any case, Chan/ Howe WD from NHK (due to Spencer recovering from surgery), and Beccari/Guarise were selected. Alls well that ends well.

 

[Sk8swan]

I don't want to be that person, but the next ones on the replacement list would have actually been the baby Germans - Roscher/Schuster. Why? Because the Grand Prix series is based on last season's results, not this one's, and R/S had a higher SB last season than B/G.
And Matteo, as an experienced competitor should be well aware of that.

I understand the frustration, but how would we go about changing the system without making it unfair to others? If we go by PB, replacement spots might go to skaters who haven't achieved a high level in multiple years. If we go by the running season's best score, this would be unfair to teams who haven't competed at any Challengers yet (due to the price of travel, for example), as well as skaters who have a high ceiling but who started into the season later, and thus have a lower SB so far. In the end, even with rule changes, you will never be able to make everyone

AFAIK Matteo is very much aware who's got the higher SB to get invited first, but the fact that Skate America pairs competition was left with only 7 pairs in the field... well sounds fishy to me! He and Lucrezia would have been more than happy to accept an invitation and compete there. He's saying there should be a rule so that the organizing country, following the ranking, has to go on inviting skaters until they fill all the spots available for the competition. That's why he spoke about not being happy.

 

[SnowWhite]

AFAIK Matteo is very much aware who's got the higher SB to get invited first, but the fact that Skate America pairs competition was left with only 7 pairs in the field... well sounds fishy to me! He and Lucrezia would have been more than happy to accept an invitation and compete there. He's saying there should be a rule so that the organizing country, following the ranking, has to go on inviting skaters until they fill all the spots available for the competition. That's why he spoke about not being happy.

Fishy? Really, that seems a bit dramatic. Miura/Kihara WD 8 days before SA started, and they were replaced. Then Osipova/Epstein WD 4 days before SA started, and they weren't because it was so close to the start of the event. You can wish they were (I do), or even think it should be required, but the reason it happened is very obvious, and not suspicious. The GP hosts pay the travel costs for teams they invite. Last minute travel costs are expensive, especially across oceans.

 

[Sk8swan]

Fishy? Really, that seems a bit dramatic. Miura/Kihara WD 8 days before SA started, and they were replaced. Then Osipova/Epstein WD 4 days before SA started, and they weren't because it was so close to the start of the event. You can wish they were (I do), or even think it should be required, but the reason it happened is very obvious, and not suspicious. The GP hosts pay the travel costs for teams they invite. Last minute travel costs are expensive, especially across oceans.

Even if you don't want to consider it "fishy", honestly "too expensive travel costs" can't be really an excuse at such a high level...
You are damaging an athlete who could have a chance of competing, possibily winning a medal and prize money and even qualify for the final.

 

[4everchan]

Even if you don't want to consider it "fishy", honestly "too expensive travel costs" can't be really an excuse at such a high level...
You are damaging an athlete who could have a chance of competing, possibily winning a medal and prize money and even qualify for the final.

Yes and no. I can give you that SKAM decided to invite a less threatening team. This happens ALL THE TIME and that's just how it is. They could have invited Matteo and Lucrezia. Making strict rules about whom GPS need to invite makes absolutely no sense. There are a bunch of reasons why GP organizers have more than one option (best score).

When the Dutch w/d, it was just too late. Sure there is money. But there are a bunch of administrative details that need time as well. On top of that, a competition needs preparation. I am not a skater but when I competed, a few days, sometimes up to a couple weeks before a competition, we would taper. Elite skaters can confirm or infirm if there is a variation in training depending on when a competition happens. If I didn't taper properly, my body was too tired from the heavy training loads so I wouldn't perform properly. What matters is not just getting any assignment but it's also getting a chance to do well at that assignment. Flying across the Atlantic and half the continent also takes time. And then, the athletes are tired and jet lagged. I would say that Matteo may have been pissed off not to get SKAM 8 days before but I am not sure he would have been happy to get it 4 days before... at this point, as they got NHK in a few weeks from now, I bet they are pretty happy that they now have a chance to do things properly and even contend for GPF.

There is a rule about the timing to replace a w/d. Nothing fishy about that. Who gets invited? There is a part that can be fishy but selections are multifactorial.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

AFAIK Matteo is very much aware who's got the higher SB to get invited first, but the fact that Skate America pairs competition was left with only 7 pairs in the field... well sounds fishy to me! He and Lucrezia would have been more than happy to accept an invitation and compete there. He's saying there should be a rule so that the organizing country, following the ranking, has to go on inviting skaters until they fill all the spots available for the competition. That's why he spoke about not being happy.

A lot of skaters know only as much as they absolutely need to know, and Matteo has made remarks in the past that do not make me think he's one of the skaters passionate about learning as much as possible about the rules behind it all. You also are able to find the official rules online, and if you did your research, you'd see that federations are forced to replace all pairs who withdrew up to fourteen days prior, after that the ISU Grand Prix Coordination Group will consider if it's feasible to fill the spot because of visa requirements or unduly high travel costs that would be incurred by the organizing ISU Member. Short notice for alternates is 7(!) days, after which alternates do not have to accept an invitation either.

Even if you don't want to consider it "fishy", honestly "too expensive travel costs" can't be really an excuse at such a high level...
You are damaging an athlete who could have a chance of competing, possibily winning a medal and prize money and even qualify for the final.

"Too expensive travel costs" is absolutely a valid reason for not replacing teams, do you think money grows on trees? Also, at such short notice it's often impossible to even find a connection for skaters to reach the competition in time, and even if they did, it's possible they'd have to travel for two days, and get there on the day of the competition. Basically no skater would seriously want that, including Matteo. And, for the USA, you'd have to apply for an ESTA 72h before entry into the US - As neither Matteo, nor Lucrezia seem to have been in the USA within the last two years, they wouldn't have one already, and would risk being denied entry due to not applying early enough, in which case all of the money spent by the organising fed would have just gone down the drain.

If Matteo is actually complaining about SkAM's last spot not being filled, and most of all, not being filled by them, then that does nothing but make me question his grasp on reality, I am sorry.

 

[viennaskater]

Then Osipova/Epstein WD 4 days before SA started, and they weren't because it was so close to the start of the event. You can wish they were (I do), or even think it should be required, but the reason it happened is very obvious, and not suspicious. The GP hosts pay the travel costs for teams they invite. Last minute travel costs are expensive, especially across oceans.

Osipova/Epstein also withdrew from Nebelhorn in September. Don't know why, but I would guess it was the same reason as SA.

 

[ladyjane]

I know why they withdrew from Nebelhorn: money problems. They could skate at a smaller competition close to home (I've seen them, I was there). But the withdrawal from SA? I really don't know. There could be an injury as they had withdrawn from a Dutch competition (close by, their rivals were there) a few days after an interview where they had been discussing the future and the intention to continue despite the money problems. That happened after Nebelhorn.

 

[viennaskater]

Ah - thanks for the info!

 

[NanaPat]

The Australian team won the worst costume award for me for the FS costume. Live, she was much too pale and he was much too bright. I could have accepted her being pink and him aqua, but the brightness/saturation were all wrong.

Photo

 

[Diana Delafield]

The Australian team won the worst costume award for me for the FS costume. Live, she was much too pale and he was much too bright. I could have accepted her being pink and him aqua, but the brightness/saturation were all wrong.

Photo

I thought they looked on the screen as if they'd had two choices of costumes and didn't discover until too late that they'd got their signals mixed and had packed opposing choices.

 

[ManyCairns]

'You said "pink, NOT aqua."'
'No, I said NOT the pink, bring the aqua.'