A proposal for ISU | Golden Skate

A proposal for ISU

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
As the heated debates on the figure skating scoring systems rage on in various threads as usual, and with laments of loss of popularity of the sport in the US, mainly blamed on the current scoring system as well, I think maybe it's a good idea to gather the thoughts together in one thread. I do have a brand new proposal to make that may address both issues.

Figure skating is a very special sport, highly technical, yet artistic and emotional. Winners cannot be determined by measurable time, distance, or number of goals scored. It has to be judged by human judges. Unfortunately, for every event, besides the three Tech Specialists and nine official Judges at the rink, there are millions more judges worldwide, each scoring with a different perspective and system. Some think the winner should be determined by how clean s/he or they skated or conversely by the number of falls, some insist that quad jumps should be the deciding factors in Mens, with 3A or 3/3 for Ladies, for many it's the musicality that counts while others want to be moved and see emotional connection with the music as well as the audience. Some people think the many technical requirements demanded by COP entail less artistic performances. Therefore, many changes have been suggested to make the results more suited to the proponents' tastes or to favor their favorites.

There are currently two programs to be performed by each skater or team in a competition, the Short Program and the Free Skate. But the Free Skate is better named Long Program as it is full of requirements and rules, rather far from free. Even if it were allowed to be designed and skated freely, the COP scoring system will still ensure that the competitors will jam their programs with high valued elements. So, now then, my proposal: Why not have an actual free program, and have it judged by the fans?

As it is, top competitors perform three programs each including one in the Gala. The exhibition programs are truly free, choreographed to entertain and appeal to the fans, not the judges. Why not let the fans vote on the best gala program according to however they wish to judge it, either by the live audience or maybe even online by the public at large? There can be a winner in each discipline or there can be 3 interdisciplinary medalists. Fans get to have their say and feel involved and empowered. Like reality talent shows, when people get to participate and vote to express their opinions and judgements their enthusiasm rises to new heights. Figure skating is highly technical, so complex well considered scoring system and trained judges are necessary, even as changes and improvements may be made to the system. But adding a non strictly technically based program can appeal to the general public and less technically knowledgeable fans who nonetheless have strong feelings and personal artistic preferences. Meanwhile, they will still be invested in the prior technical programs because only the top finishers get to compete in the new Free Skate. And if only live audience can vote or if their votes are weighted, many fans will want to be present at the event and even bring more seat fillers with them to support their favorites.

What do you think?
 
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Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Definitely not! A very bad idea

I could not bear another X Factor/reality TV style competition

The way to do it is to have the first program as a technical program and to make the second program a truly free program in which the artistry is allowed to predominate in terms of the marking. Each program should be allocated 50% of the marks. That way, the skater who wins is the one that can best encompass both the technical and artistic aspects of the sport. However, the marking of the competition by a panel of judges should be retained. Figure Skating should never ever go down the route of reality TV. That would totally destroy its credibility. It would become more of a popularity contest than a serious sport and would almost certainly lead to it being removed from the Olympics
 
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Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
^^^ Well, that is why the original competition will be maintained. Only the Gala will be changed to the pro competition formate and let the fans get involved with their own critiria. What you just did is another proposed change to the judging system and there are so many personal opinions on that. Fans' choice is a common award in entertainment where the peers in the industry vote on all the rest. It's sort of a rematch and redemption for skaters and their fans, offering some satisfaction.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think the sporting competition needs to be judged by people who actually understand the technical intricacies of the sport. The championship medals should be given out before the gala.

But at big events that already have galas and paying audiences anyway, having those audiences vote on favorite gala performances and announcing winners and handing out extra medals seems like a perfectly reasonable way to involve the fans and to give the skaters another chance to earn accolades.

You do realize that the "results" of international gala competitions will be heavily heavily influenced by which country the event takes place in, or sometimes by which skater's fans are numerous enough, devoted enough, and rich enough to fly around the world to attend competitions. If you also include ways for TV audiences to vote then by the time zone the event takes place in and which countries' networks choose to broadcast the gala live will also skew the event.

And of course even the fans who are not biased toward specific skaters will still have their preferences toward kinds of performances they like best.

But as long as everyone understands it's a popularity contest based on who has the best performance in the eyes of that particular collection of fans with that particular set of biases, everyone can have fun.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
I want to like this idea, but I think it will just turn into a giant popularity contest. I've seen quite a few half-hearted and frankly mediocre exhibition programs get big cheers simply because the skaters skating it were popular.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
I want to like this idea, but I think it will just turn into a giant popularity contest. I've seen quite a few half-hearted and frankly mediocre exhibition programs get big cheers simply because the skaters skating it were popular.

Then a popular skater better make sure s/he gets into the gala by competing well in the technical programs, and a good skater may start behaving in a way pleasing to fans and condusive to a good public image.

eta. A bonus would be live streaming by ISU! Really then only serious fans will be voting, not the viewers of delayed TV broadcasts. Maybe even a "protocol" should be submitted with the vote.
 
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evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Then a popular skater better make sure s/he gets into the gala by competing well in the technical programs, and a good skater may start behaving in a way pleasing to fans and condusive to a good public image.

eta. A bonus would be live streaming by ISU! Really then only serious fans will be voting, not the viewers of delayed TV broadcasts. Maybe even a "protocol" should be submitted with the vote.

I don't know...a part of me hates the fact that a schlocky gala program set to a popular pop song with mostly crosscuts and posing and/or obviously recycled elements would "win" just because of fans bloc-voting for their favourite skater no matter what. Maybe it's the fact that I'm a bit cynical about gala programs--there are some skaters who clearly put a lot of thought into the skating some beautiful programs, but I find that those skaters are more often than not exceptions to the rule.

Does the ISU ever live stream anything? I mostly watch competitions from CBC/Skatebuzz or through more illicit means.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Let ISU live stream for votes! They may receive more revenues from sponsors and fans watching skating competitions live would be completly legitimate.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
I really hope the ISU would live stream things. But the unfortunate impression I get from the ISU is that they are a bunch of dinosaurs when it comes to being up to date vis-a-vis the Internet. I mean--this is the organization that started having an official Youtube channel and Facebook page only a few months ago!! I don't think they even have a Twitter ...there are so many promotional opportunities being lost by coming so late into the game.
 
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Joined
Mar 14, 2006
I'm indifferent to most exhibition programs so the idea is lost on me. I like seeing skaters push the limit technically and STILL be beautiful. Seeing skaters in hooker shorts shake and wiggle (Ashley, Miki - I'm talking to you) gets old real fast. Being able to vote wouldn't make me like it any better.

That said, your idea is something like the old cheesefests. I would rather revive and update those (with live streaming and internet/tv voting -- not just voting by live audiences) than corrupt the results of a real competition with a popularity contest.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Don't many already consider and declare the competitions unreal and corrupted? They are frustrated that their beloved skaters don't win and the dispised ones do. So they can vent through their votes, still no guarantee of their desired results, but the official competitions are still conducted as regulated.

OTOH, don't underestimate fans' knowledge and tastes. We may be surprised.
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Fan voting to determine the results of a competition? It's been done before -- 2005 Marshall's Challenge. And they had an "expert" panel, Peggy Fleming, Peter Carruthers and Dick Button, giving comments and offering their votes publicly.

Based on that experience, I would say it is not a good idea.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Fan voting to determine the results of a competition? It's been done before -- 2005 Marshall's Challenge. And they had an "expert" panel, Peggy Fleming, Peter Carruthers and Dick Button, giving comments and offering their votes publicly.

Based on that experience, I would say it is not a good idea.

I didn't mind, because I could sit secure in the knowledge that Michelle Kwan would win no matter what happened :laugh:
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Fan voting to determine the results of a competition? It's been done before -- 2005 Marshall's Challenge. And they had an "expert" panel, Peggy Fleming, Peter Carruthers and Dick Button, giving comments and offering their votes publicly.

Based on that experience, I would say it is not a good idea.

No, the fans don't decide the official winners, just fans' choices from the top finishers participating the Gala/Free Skate programs.
 

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
^^^ Well, that is why the original competition will be maintained. Only the Gala will be changed to the pro competition formate and let the fans get involved with their own critiria. What you just did is another proposed change to the judging system and there are so many personal opinions on that. Fans' choice is a common award in entertainment where the peers in the industry vote on all the rest. It's sort of a rematch and redemption for skaters and their fans, offering some satisfaction.

Even confined to the Gala, it would still be no more than a popularity contest. Worse than that, it would almost certainly be viewed as no more than a gimmick which nobody could take seriously.

One of the main reasons for the decline in the popularity of figure skating is that the new judging system has removed a lot of the artistry from figure skating. You simply cannot get away from the fact that it was the greater artistry that used to exist that used to attract greater audiences, as it provided more of a spectacle that the public could appreciate and identify with. That is what I think figure skating should return to and why I think that the second program should be a truly free program with a much greater emphasis in judging terms on the artistry.
 

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
I love galas precisely because they aren't officially competitive in any form, thus I can't sign onto this idea. Sure, some skaters still treat galas as a competition to score the biggest laughs, the biggest applause. But for a few special skaters, it's an opportunity to show off artistic visions that wouldn't fly in any kind of competition, whether they be judged by a few experts of the masses.

Take Daisuke Takahashi: For the last three seasons, his exhibition numbers have been set to quiet, meditative pieces. The choreography has been minimalistic. What he lays down on the ice during those galas is really the skating equivalent of ambient music. It's very subtle work done to set up an unobtrusive mood. There's no drama, no climaxes, no flourishes. It's not the kind of art that wins an instant and enthusiastic reaction. It's art that lingers, half-transparent.

Fellow countryman Takahiko Kozuka has a similarly atmospheric piece to a serene Nick Drake song, although even that program isn't as minimalistic as Takahashi's current gala piece to The Crisis.

My point is, those aren't pieces that would do well in an audience-voting competition. And it isn't just quiet and subtle pieces. There are plenty of other programs that would challenge and bemuse and delay the audience's instant gratification. They would be discouraged in the kind of competition the original post proposes.

And beyond such highfalutin reasons, it's nice to have a part of an event where the competitors can skate without too much pressure to prove anything. When the skaters can just turn it off and have fun. When everybody is a winner.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
I think Takahashi's and Kozuka's exhibition numbers are extremely well received and appreciated. They are exactly what real Free Skates are about. Meanwhile I see plenty of snorting at cheesy programs regularly among skating fans. Assumptions about what would be pupular are just personal and unproven assumptions. The most beautiful programs will be appreciated. People can't help it.

Yes I do like the idea of everyone being a winner with no pressure. I love the Galas as they are. However, the issues won't go away and need to be addressed.

The proposal is made to 1) instead of arguing how the skating should be scored and insisting on one's own opionions being the ultimate solution, let fans just vote with their criteria to see if they really are agreed to. That way the actual scoring system may be maintained and amended rationally with careful considerations instead of out of countless knee jerk reactions. And 2) to get more fans interested, involved, and invested. No, it's not high brow or of high athletic value, but it may address the important issue pertaining the sport's survival in the US at least. Mathman, a long time fan, is declaring he's giving up, and Skate America doesn't even bother with promotion, basically having given up as well. Go with the time, the successful rating formula, while keeping the sport and its competition integrity itself intact. It's about giving something extra, value added, to attract fans/paying customers from among the masses, especially the younger generation.
 
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evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Assumptions about what would be pupular are just personal and unproven assumptions. The most beautiful programs will be appreciated. People can't help it.

Not necessarily. I think jaylee's example of the 2005 Marshall's Challenge is instructive. Even I, as a Michelle Kwan fan, cannot deny that Sasha Cohen not only skated better than Michelle Kwan at that particular event, but that Sasha arguably had better programs (hate, hate, hate Totentanz). But that certainly did not stop Michelle from crushing the competition in both rounds of voting.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Fans' choices should be respected too for what they are. If more people like what an expert or a sophisticate doesn't like, so be it. What's the harm? Could it hurt more than the current bitter disagreements over the official results? I see people still arguing over results from years or decades back.

eta. Popular skaters, the stars, draw fans and boost ticket sales. Winning the Fans' Choice is earning an appearance fee. Fair enough.
 
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