A simple case for why figures should be taught.

[skateluvr]

I never skated but always realized figures were skating skills 101 and the art is a bit lost. Does one need great edges to rotate 4 x in the air? Likely not but split second moves ingrained in the head to foot decisions one makes or does by second nature, must help with take off edge and landing edge which will always differentiate one jump from another and get judged as a clean in order to get the points for quads.

Do the young ones here ever watch Brian Orser do figures on YouTube or just watch him skate in 1988 Calgary Olympics? His SP was great. He was known as Mr triple axel. He was twice Silver Olympic medalist in the eighties. He won at least one WC. Maybe more? It was very close between the Brians. He was a great skater and lasted for years on pro circuit. Fast forward to the last two Olympic cycles. He took a wild Hanyu with no stamina and a need for speed with poor control and helped him become two time Olympic medalist. He took Yuzu a long way. At the same time he took a Spaniard named Javi who started late and was kind of lazy and turned the two into the guys with the best skating skills in the world. Two out of three in 2018 Oly Podium were Orser boys who spent years with him. Brian is the coach who with Tracy insists on pristine basics. Mishin has Plushenko but look at his skating skills even when He won OG. No snark I liked him he was so out there. IF you are a male and at the top of your game I think Orser is your guy. I didn’t think Jason could skate any more beautifully but even he was a better skater this year. Too bad age 24 is a tough age to learn a quad. He is a big guy by skating standards too and quad jumpers tend to be small and thinner. Lower center of gravity. I almost wish Shona who has stunning edges would go to Orser as he and Yuzu would compete daily. I want Chen to win in Beijing if he deserves it but I love seeing Shona skate to classical music.

At any rate The CC in Canada has people who trained figures and top ice dancers who still have the skating skills that thrill. I think Orser trained those boys as he was trained and it resulted in them attaining quads while also being the most artistic skaters out there. A true combination of the best.

I have wondered if they train figures there for fun or seriously? Brian said his two boys had the best skating skills in the world. Do we agree? I think Shoma and Nathan are up there. Boyang has made strides and I hope he is a master by 2022. There are others like Keegan Messing but I really don’t care for his programs/ packaging but he has amazing skating skills. Now the top ladies and the most winning coach is a whole different discussion but I think Orser will go down as the most successful skater turned coach for men in history. He has dominated in one way or the other since the eighties. Not to mention what 4 years did for Yuna. ��

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Let's talk about those who really have the edge control and skating skills: Patrick Chan, Kurt Browning, Jeremy Abbott to name a few. Today Keegan has that edge quality. Nathan Chen is getting there. Edge control and quality are something that are embedded in you and your skating from an early age. If you don't concentrate on it or breeze over it for the jumps, it's not very easy and is very rarely taught other than ice dance.


Robin Cousins was always the master of edges before that. Yes the Brians were both great, but I think about them more in terms of jumps, and Boitano's amazing jumps and spread eagles. Oh and if we're going to talk about "the good old days" one can't forget Paul Wylie.

 

[skateluvr]

Yes, I still marvel at the lean Brian had in his spread eagles. No one today takes the time to perfect that move and hold it out. His edgers are so deep and secure. My favorite Boitano skate was on the Glacier in Alaska after he won his gold. I only hated his white thermals lol but it did look cold. The music alone makes me cry. He said he was never more moved than when he skated that. How did he lean away and in so deeply yet stay on his skates? I still think the Battle is worth watching. They both had it all.

 

[DSQ]

Let's talk about those who really have the edge control and skating skills: Patrick Chan, Kurt Browning, Jeremy Abbott to name a few. Today Keegan has that edge quality. Nathan Chen is getting there. Edge control and quality are something that are embedded in you and your skating from an early age. If you don't concentrate on it or breeze over it for the jumps, it's not very easy and is very rarely taught other than ice dance.


Robin Cousins was always the master of edges before that. Yes the Brians were both great, but I think about them more in terms of jumps, and Boitano's amazing jumps and spread eagles. Oh and if we're going to talk about "the good old days" one can't forget Paul Wylie.

You and I should be friends lol When it comes to creativity, posture and skating skills Robin is the master to whom all are judged. However I am 100% biased here.

 

[moonvine]

Let's talk about those who really have the edge control and skating skills: Patrick Chan, Kurt Browning, Jeremy Abbott to name a few. Today Keegan has that edge quality. Nathan Chen is getting there. Edge control and quality are something that are embedded in you and your skating from an early age. If you don't concentrate on it or breeze over it for the jumps, it's not very easy and is very rarely taught other than ice dance.

Yes! Keegan! I'm so glad I'm not the only one who recognizes he's a really good skater!

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, I still marvel at the lean Brian had in his spread eagles. No one today takes the time to perfect that move and hold it out. His edgers are so deep and secure. My favorite Boitano skate was on the Glacier in Alaska after he won his gold. I only hated his white thermals lol but it did look cold. The music alone makes me cry. He said he was never more moved than when he skated that. How did he lean away and in so deeply yet stay on his skates? I still think the Battle is worth watching. They both had it all.

FWIW I heard on ice talk awhile back that Boitano takes private ice and does figures 2-3 times a week. There used to be one place left where adult skaters could compete figures. It was called the Mountain Cup. But I can't find anything going back past 2011. If anyone knows anything about it I'd like to hear. http://www.gerfsc.com/mountcup.htm

 

[Lambari]

(...)
I have wondered if they train figures there for fun or seriously? (...)

I would say both based on this Brian Orser interview:

About Yuzuru's first practice at Pyeongchang when he just did figures, a bunch of singles, one 3A, left the ice after 15min and just went past the sea of media rapidly saying "Thank you!"

"It was pretty planned. First he came out and just did figure eights. And he does that sometimes at the rink. 'Cause I'll get on the ice first. It's always nice and clean, we have great ice on our club. So I'll go out, just 'cause i'm old school and I'll just lay out a figure eight. Then he'll come out and he'll try to to go on top of the tracing. We've talked about compulsory figures. So then he kind of got into a bit of a habit at just doing that when he first gets on the ice. So it was funny in Pyeongchang for him to step out there, and I saw this whole bank of media, not just skating but worldwide sports media people, just wanting to get a glimpse. "Cause nobody had a clue how he was skating, and then he came out and did that (laughs). And then just to do the minimum and then get off the ice."

About the LP practice with Javier and Yuzuru at Pyeongchang:
(...) And then there was some time at the end of the session where they just started to do some of the skating skills that we practice at home. So one of them started doing it and I just said to the other go and do it together like we always do. Now, there's usually a group of eight or ten doing it. But it was so amazing and it was because I saw the judges sitting there and we had some big shots on the practice, lost of quads and quad flips and quad lutzes and all this stuff and I looked at the judges and like all of them were just watching Javi and Yuzuru do these exercises. And I'm just like: "Yes!" They're seeing good skating, you know. And they're not just following to see who's going to do the next quad. So they came over to me and I just looked at them and just said "I'm so proud of you guys. You make us look really good" And then they shook hands. I went "My God". It's like an Olympic moment, you know? It was amazing!

Both of these cuts are here, and they included the moment with Javier and Yuzuru at the end:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiNBZ_VMBwM

Whole 40min interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW1KaZkBVKM

____

Tatsuki Machida was a skater very enthusiastic about figures. He did an EX not long ago where he started it with figures. It is interesting even though I hate Bolero:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1nUtU2oJZ0

 

[WednesdayMarch]

You and I should be friends lol When it comes to creativity, posture and skating skills Robin is the master to whom all are judged. However I am 100% biased here.

<cough> John Curry <cough>

Still number one inspiration for me.

 

[NanaPat]

Tatsuki Machida was a skater very enthusiastic about figures. He did an EX not long ago where he started it with figures. It is interesting even though I hate Bolero:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1nUtU2oJZ0

That was great!

The very subdued beginning, with the figures/edge work, exactly matched the music. As did the rest of the program. A great match of music and choreography, as well as great skting.

 

[mrrice]

It's funny, I had heard all about deep edges when I was young but, it wasn't until I saw Todd Eldredge back in 1991 that I really understood the difference between deep and shallow edges. The sound alone made Todd stand out to me. Patrick Chan, has the most beautiful edge quality and so does Plushy.

 

[gkelly]

most beautiful edged quality and so does Plushy.

Who, as far as I know, did not train school figures, or perhaps not beyond beginning levels.

He was 7 when the last figures were competed internationally.

I don't know what skating training looked like at the end of the USSR and in the early post-Soviet era. Somewhere I got the impression that there was more emphasis on stroking exercises than on tracing circles.

 

[DSQ]

<cough> John Curry <cough>

Still number one inspiration for me.

I love love love John but something about Robin Cousins...

Figures should definitely be taught but I understand why they aren’t in competition anymore.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Who, as far as I know, did not train school figures, or perhaps not beyond beginning levels.

He was 7 when the last figures were competed internationally.

I don't know what skating training looked like at the end of the USSR and in the early post-Soviet era. Somewhere I got the impression that there was more emphasis on stroking exercises than on tracing circles.

Maybe a Plushy fan can clarify if he did or not, but I would imagine he did. Chan and Abbott are younger and did figures.

 

[Skater Boy]

I would say both based on this Brian Orser interview:

About Yuzuru's first practice at Pyeongchang when he just did figures, and bunch of singles, one 3A, left the ice after 15min and just went past the sea of media rapidly saying "Thank you!"

"It was pretty planned. First he came out and just did figure eights. And he does that sometimes at the rink. 'Cause I'll get on the ice first. It's always nice and clean, we have great ice on our club. So i'll go out, just 'cause i'm old school and I'll just lay out a figure eight. Then he'll come out and he'll try to to go on top of the tracing. We've talked about compulsory figures. So then he kind of got into a bit of a habit at just doing that when he fist gets on the ice. So it was funny in Pyeongchang for him to step out there, and I saw this whole bank of media, not just skating but worldwide sports media people, just wanting to get a glimpse. "Cause nobody had a clue how he was skating, and then he came out and did that (laughs). And then just to do the minimum and then get off the ice."

About the LP practice with Javier and Yuzuru at Pyeongchang:
(...) And then there was some time at the end of the session where they just started to do some of the skating skills that we practice at home. So one of them started doing it and I just said to the other go and do it together like we always do. Now, there's usually a group of eight or ten doing it. But it was so amazing and it was because I saw the judges sitting there and we had some big shots on the practice, lost of quads and quad flips and quad lutzes and all this stuff and I looked at the judges and like all of them were just watching Javi and Yuzuru do these exercises. And I'm just like: "Yes!" They're seeing good skating, you know. And they're not just following to see who's going to do the next quad. So they came over to me and I just looked at them and just said "I'm so proud of you guys. You makes us look really good" And then they shook hands. I went "My God". It's like an Olympic moment, you know? It was amazing!

Both of these cuts are here, and they included the moment with Javier and Yuzuru at the end:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiNBZ_VMBwM

Whole 40min interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW1KaZkBVKM

____

Tatsuki Machida was a skater very enthusiastic about figures. He did an EX not long ago where he started it with figures. It is interesting even though I hate Bolero:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1nUtU2oJZ0

Figures can help a lot in skating and skating skills. Too bad really pcs or skating skills aren't worth a lot. Love Chen and he has improved his skating skills and I don't blame him but the current scoring system really favors the jumpers. One jump can obliterate any difference in pcs. The system does not recognize the differences in skating skills/pc. yes, Nathan for example has improved but the difference between him and Jason for example is hardly noticeable in score and besides a triple loop gets killed by a quad salchow. a five point edge in pcs is nothing absolutely nothing and if you are a good jumper your marks on pcs end to go up as well.

 

[Weathergal]

Let's talk about those who really have the edge control and skating skills: Patrick Chan, Kurt Browning, Jeremy Abbott to name a few. Today Keegan has that edge quality. Nathan Chen is getting there. Edge control and quality are something that are embedded in you and your skating from an early age. If you don't concentrate on it or breeze over it for the jumps, it's not very easy and is very rarely taught other than ice dance.


Robin Cousins was always the master of edges before that. Yes the Brians were both great, but I think about them more in terms of jumps, and Boitano's amazing jumps and spread eagles. Oh and if we're going to talk about "the good old days" one can't forget Paul Wylie.

You mentioned nearly all the skaters who popped into my mind, as well as a few I hadn't immediately thought of but totally agree with.

I would add Todd Eldredge to that list.

And I have also always LOVED Brian's spread eagles. :luv17: He is always the first person I think of when people ask "who does it best?" for spread eagles.

 

[Weathergal]

I would say both based on this Brian Orser interview:

About Yuzuru's first practice at Pyeongchang when he just did figures, and bunch of singles, one 3A, left the ice after 15min and just went past the sea of media rapidly saying "Thank you!"

"It was pretty planned. First he came out and just did figure eights. And he does that sometimes at the rink. 'Cause I'll get on the ice first. It's always nice and clean, we have great ice on our club. So i'll go out, just 'cause i'm old school and I'll just lay out a figure eight. Then he'll come out and he'll try to to go on top of the tracing. We've talked about compulsory figures. So then he kind of got into a bit of a habit at just doing that when he fist gets on the ice. So it was funny in Pyeongchang for him to step out there, and I saw this whole bank of media, not just skating but worldwide sports media people, just wanting to get a glimpse. "Cause nobody had a clue how he was skating, and then he came out and did that (laughs). And then just to do the minimum and then get off the ice."

About the LP practice with Javier and Yuzuru at Pyeongchang:
(...) And then there was some time at the end of the session where they just started to do some of the skating skills that we practice at home. So one of them started doing it and I just said to the other go and do it together like we always do. Now, there's usually a group of eight or ten doing it. But it was so amazing and it was because I saw the judges sitting there and we had some big shots on the practice, lost of quads and quad flips and quad lutzes and all this stuff and I looked at the judges and like all of them were just watching Javi and Yuzuru do these exercises. And I'm just like: "Yes!" They're seeing good skating, you know. And they're not just following to see who's going to do the next quad. So they came over to me and I just looked at them and just said "I'm so proud of you guys. You makes us look really good" And then they shook hands. I went "My God". It's like an Olympic moment, you know? It was amazing!

Both of these cuts are here, and they included the moment with Javier and Yuzuru at the end:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiNBZ_VMBwM

Whole 40min interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW1KaZkBVKM

____

Tatsuki Machida was a skater very enthusiastic about figures. He did an EX not long ago where he started it with figures. It is interesting even though I hate Bolero:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1nUtU2oJZ0

I forgot about that interview -- so glad you brought it up!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

You mentioned nearly all the skaters who popped into my mind, as well as a few I hadn't immediately thought of but totally agree with.

I would add Todd Eldredge to that list.

And I have also always LOVED Brian's spread eagles. :luv17: He is always the first person I think of when people ask "who does it best?" for spread eagles.

Definitely. Boitano and Wylie have the best spread eagles!

 

[Weathergal]

Definitely. Boitano and Wylie have the best spread eagles!

I was thinking of him as well (I swear! LOL) with an honorable mention to Jonathan Cassar for his inside spread eagles. Such an elegant skater!

 

[gkelly]

So why is it that pretty much all the skaters mentioned in this thread so far are men?

Do no women have the same kind of edge skills? If not, are the reasons physical or cultural or . . . ?


Two who come to mind are Dorothy Hamill and Yuka Sato.

 

[labgoat]

You mentioned nearly all the skaters who popped into my mind, as well as a few I hadn't immediately thought of but totally agree with.

I would add Todd Eldredge to that list.

And I have also always LOVED Brian's spread eagles. :luv17: He is always the first person I think of when people ask "who does it best?" for spread eagles.

May I also add Ryan Jahnke who had beautiful skating skills and positions.

 

[labgoat]

So why is it that pretty much all the skaters mentioned in this thread so far are men?

Do no women have the same kind of edge skills? If not, are the reasons physical or cultural or . . . ?


Two who come to mind are Dorothy Hamill and Yuka Sato.

I would include Janet Lynn and Mao Asada