Abe Lincoln

[Tonichelle]

Just spent 3 semi-boring hours in US History again tonight. However we've finally started talking about the Civil War so I am not as bored (it's one of my favorite parts of history, not so much the war but everything surrounding it). It was really weird, the diagrams that my prof drew were eerily similar to those Mr. Summer had for his lessons on the same subject. I found it really cool and kinda funny! Oh well, I'm a geek.

Anyway we got a bit off course and started discussing the reasons why Buccanon(sp, I butchered it I'm sure) didn't run for re-election, and then I asked if he thought that Lincoln would have run again had he not been killed. Mr. Wilksey said he didn't think so. That Lincoln would have wanted out, and it was a general acceptance that while not a rule that the president would only serve 2 terms. That he felt the only reason Roosevelt went for 3 was because we were in a World Conflict at the time. It made sense but the class was split almost down the middle. So I am posing the question to you. Based on what history tells us about Mr. Lincoln and your own feelings, do you think he would have run again had he not been murdered?

 

[PrincessLeppard]

I'm not a Civil War expert by any means (I find European history more fascinating....), but from what I've read, Lincoln was exhausted, physically and spiritually, and most likely would've said, "Enough," at the end of his second term.

Interesting question, though.

 

[Tonichelle]

Lincoln seemed so morbid during his years in office. From his writings you really start feeling sorry for him Still I don't really know if he would... depending on the state of the union if he'd lived those 4 years he might have felt obligated to continue... *shrugs* it's a what if question I guess

 

[Ptichka]

I think it would have depended much on what kind of alternative the party would have been able to put forth at the end of Lincoln's 2nd term. He had very particular ideas about Reconstruction; I think he would have run again rather than letting Grant take office without a fight. On the other hand, if he saw a worthy successor, I am sure he would not have broken with tradition. Besides, we don't even know if he would have lived that long -- as it is now believed he had Marfan desease, he really could drop dead at any point.

 

[Tonichelle]

you've caught my interest! What is Marfan disease? This is the first I've heard of Lincoln possibly having any medical condition that wasn't a mental one (extreme depression, some even say he could have been bi-polar)

 

[Ptichka]

Marfan is a disorder that effects connective tissue in the body. People with it are usually extremely tall, and have elongated face and hands. They also have very flexible joints. The problem is that a Marfan's heart is very weak, and can basically give up at any point. That's why before Marfan disorder was discovered, many men with it ended up in the NBA only to drop dead suddenly (now, people with the disorder are urged to not engage in any cardio activity). There are several reasons for it (all heredetary). Genetically, it's why the Y chromosome is doubled, so while a normal boy is created with 1 X and 1 Y, a Marfan is created with 1 X and 2 Ys.

Another well known person who is believed to have Marfan is Bin Laden; possibly also Charles de Galle and Rachmaninoff.

 

[humbaba]

Country music legend Hank Williams Sr. is another famous person suspected to have suffered from Marfan's. I don't believe it was implicated in his death, though.

 

[Tonichelle]

wow! that's a neat bit of trivia... hmmmmmmm

 

[BronzeisGolden]

Abe Lincoln was such an interesting man and I think that he and Theodore Roosevelt shared many similarities. They both were somewhat manic in a sense. They could stay up for long stretches at a time working at a pace that no one else could possibly handle. Winston Churchill was much the same. Odd, isn't it, that so many of the world's most touted leaders seemed to have some sort of disorder? There is a fascinating book that deals with this very subject. I will find the title and post it here.

As for Lincoln and a 3rd term, well, that is difficult to say. I would probably go along with Ptichka. Lincoln did indeed have ideas about what Reconstruction should have been and they weren't very popular. I find it sad. Perhaps if he had lived he would have made Reconstruction more of a success instead of the dismal failure it was in most respects.

 

[JOHIO2]

It's not only politicians who we suspect of manic depression, aka bipolar disorder. Just recently Jane Pauley "came out" as diagnosed with bipolar disorder. She was apparently diagnosed rather late in life compared with many other bipolar patients. But, considering her career and those long years of early mornings for Today, I think she was always a little hypomanic. Does that mean that all driven and energetic and successful people are bipolar? Probably not, but it does tend to make us wonder.

As for Lincoln and a third term....he had just been inaugurated for his second term, so he had nearly four years left to work on the aftermath of the war and Reconstruction of the union. Who knows how he would have handled that time and how the country would have responded to his leadership. I'd like to think that he would have done a better job than his successors, but realistically the country was still divided and he would have had to fight his own party members over how to run the country. Sound familiar? My fear is that Bush's second term will be just as divisive as his first and he will be spending increasing time and effort fighting his own Republican Party. Maybe Abe should be thankful he was spared the fights that would have ensued. They might have been almost as divisive as the war itself.

 

[Ptichka]

Johio, I am sure Lincoln would have been far more successful at Reconstruction than Johnson was. Johnson was basically as unpopular as could be. Don't forget the reason Lincoln chose him as his VP for the second term - it was to have a Southern on the ticket. Basically, he knew that he had to unite the country after the War, and Johnson was a strong peace offering. After Lincoln's death, though, this led to President who had zero support in Congress. Remember, they almost managed to impeach him over a law they passed that was later found unconstitutional! Representing the Northern states, those politicians had no interest in working to develop a strong South. From Lincoln's writings it's clear that he saw the bigger picture, and undertstood the importance of truly rebuilding the South. Johnson, I think, understood it as well but was thwarted by Congress.

Ulysses Grant did not even try to truly rebuild South. While he did give former slaves many rights, he failed to create the incentive for Southerners to want to promote those rights themselves. Grant, I think, is exactly the president Lincoln would NOT have wanted.

With Rutherfor (sp?) Hayes, the Reconstruction was effectively over.

 

[Tonichelle]

I think Grant's main problem was he fought the war so hard that it was that mentality of them still being the "enemy" that killed all chances of him helping them out in anyway.

 

[Tonichelle]

you know what? I have heard of Marfan's Disease before... but had no clue what it was. CSI had a victim that suffered from it. Just saw the repeat last night

 

[RealtorGal]

I have a friend who has this disease. She leads a normal life within the confines of her condition. She is under a doctor's regular supervision. She is the most positive-thinking person I know, which has probably helped her cope with her situation.

 

[JOHIO2]

Ptichka,

Granted that Lincoln had a better chance to lead than Johnson. I do give Johnson credit for trying, but it was a losing cause.

The reason I thought Lincoln would also have an extremely hard time re-uniting the country was a fractious, doctrinaire and angry Congress, made up of Northern States only. He's have had to fight his own party's congressional representatives over just about everything having to do with the South. Remember, these guys were quick to challenge each other to a duel in the 19th century. Personally, I think hatred of Johnson was the one thing that united them. And Johnson was the reason they didn't make Reconstruction even more difficult and bitter, for both North and South.

And I don't really blame Hayes. That was another presidential election that Florida (and others) messed up. I blame the sudden end of Reconstruction on the deal a future President, another Ohion, James Garfield, put together to get Hayes in office. Another Republican who got sworn in as president without a popular vote majority!

And, having the Northern influence withdrawn, the South went about segregating.