All Things Ice Dance: Canadian

[slipslidin]

Before we return to canadian ice dance, let me point out, we generally avoid mentioning Elvis Stojko in the ice dance thread, out of respect for Rod Black.

 

[colleen o'neill]

I should never have uttered the magic words " Patrick Chan " ..*POOF*..suddenly , I'm in a realm where nothing makes any sense !

I said , suppose this ..imagine that.. In other words, I was posing a hypothetical case..

Let's get back to reality. Dig out Disco Tex and the Sex-o-lettes and get dancin '!

 

[slipslidin]

Go to the light Colleen, go to the light!

 

[colleen o'neill]

I'll try ..gimme a shot of pixie dust.

 

[Violet Bliss]

I say let Asher skate whatever role he wishes. Why focus on his race and not on others'? Besides Chan's of course. It makes at least as much sense for him to dance a black role as a white role.

 

[blue dog]

SkateFiguring, it's not the skating black roles that bothers people, but portraying negative stereotypes. Most of the time, Carol Lane has Asher Hill half naked, and Kharis Ralph in a classy dress. The message this sends to people is-- rich white woman, poor black male.

 

[colleen o'neill]

Imagine I was a skater.( That takes some imagining, however , let's just pretend )

My name and heritage are very Irish. If at least one out of my two or three programs each year had something identifiably Irish about it , what may have started as an homage could become limiting , predictable , even boring. There would be no harm in doing it, so long as I wasn't always doing it. ( Then it could become detrimental to the audiences' and maybe even the judges' perception of me )
Occasionally , it could be refreshing, repeatedly ,it could tire my audience.

And if , in one of those programs, I appeared drunk ,or my costume made some reference to drunkeness, e.g or was covered in potatos.... I would be tapping into one of the worst stereotypes against my heritage.

Basta.

 

[slipslidin]

Against my better judgement, I'll use my imagination just once. Imagine Colleen was an ice dancer and her partner happened to be black. Imagine he also had to appear drunk, or covered in potatos. Would that not strike you as boring, predictable, and in very questionable taste?

 

[blue dog]

Against my better judgement, I'll use my imagination just once. Imagine Colleen was an ice dancer and her partner happened to be black. Imagine he also had to appear drunk, or covered in potatos. Would that not strike you as boring, predictable, and in very questionable taste?

Just as an example, this was why a lot of people were slightly offended with Khokhlova and Novitski's first program in 2009/2010, because it was a very "RED" piece.

 

[slipslidin]

I love ice dance because of the posibility of seeing a beautiful picture within a very small( let's face it) frame. When it happens it's magic, and word of R&H's short dance makes me hope I'll see it happen again. Mary Poppins and The Sound of Music don't thrill me with anticipation in the same manner, but I must hope for the best.

 

[Mathman]

...the summertime costumes kind of offended me...-- rich white woman, poor black male.

Now, see,, that's backwards for Summertime. Your Daddy's supposed to be rich and your Mama good-looking. :yes:

 

[colleen o'neill]

You rogue.

 

[Violet Bliss]

SkateFiguring, it's not the skating black roles that bothers people, but portraying negative stereotypes. Most of the time, Carol Lane has Asher Hill half naked, and Kharis Ralph in a classy dress. The message this sends to people is-- rich white woman, poor black male.

I enticed my black friends to watch figure skating with Asher, Maxim-Billy Fortin and of course World Champ Robin S. The Asher we watched was fully dressed in classy costumes but my friend and I agreed that he was dark skinned and would look better in lighter color shirts. I remember his head kept disappearing in the dark in a fancam video! Anyway, these days being half naked means you have a good body (or so you think) to show off. Many rich white women go around half naked on all kinds of occasions flaunting their plastic surgeries. Poor people used to be tanned, thin, and half naked labouring outdoors while being fair and fat was high status. Now it's the rich who bask in the sun and dress scantily to show off their slim bodies by way of workouts and shunning the cheap starchy foods.

This friend's wife and daughter are quite fair skinned and I had a good laugh when the wife told me her daughter goes for salon tanning in the winter! BTW, I'm involved in his music making and song writing and I will let you know when we, er, he has a hit!

 

[Dragonlady]

She also had Paul Poirier half naked in the Flamenco in 2012.

Call me crazy, but while I have noted references to Asher being black, I don't think it's an obsession for Carol Lane as much as it is for some of the posters here.

 

[blue dog]

I enticed my black friends to watch figure skating with Asher, Maxim-Billy Fortin and of course World Champ Robin S. The Asher we watched was fully dressed in classy costumes but my friend and I agreed that he was dark skinned and would look better in lighter color shirts. I remember his head kept disappearing in the dark in a fancam video! Anyway, these days being half naked means you have a good body (or so you think) to show off. Many rich white women go around half naked on all kinds of occasions flaunting their plastic surgeries. Poor people used to be tanned, thin, and half naked labouring outdoors while being fair and fat was high status. Now it's the rich who bask in the sun and dress scantily to show off their slim bodies by way of workouts and shunning the cheap starchy foods.

This friend's wife and daughter are quite fair skinned and I had a good laugh when the wife told me her daughter goes for salon tanning in the winter! BTW, I'm involved in his music making and song writing and I will let you know when we, er, he has a hit!

Salon tanning?! Skatefiguring, talk them out of it! That stuff is dangerous! Have you seen the leather lady from New Jersey?!

As to Ralph/Hill, I really really hope they do a modern piece one day! Not Pina (that's inviting comparisons to S/S, who are, pairs skaters, but amazing skaters in their own right), but another modern piece.

She also had Paul Poirier half naked in the Flamenco in 2012.

Call me crazy, but while I have noted references to Asher being black, I don't think it's an obsession for Carol Lane as much as it is for some of the posters here.

1. I wish she hadn't done that, especially with the fake glue-on chest hair that she put on him.

2. This is skating, not curling. When she puts them in Afro-centric programs year in and year out, we're gonna obsess. Just a personal example (I know, during my undergraduate years, we were encouraged from using them in formal papers, but...) I BEGGED my coach to let me use jazz this year, because I prefer to skate to jazz. She said...nope. I'm just an adult skater, not a skater of Ralph and Hill's caliber, yet my coach knew that judges have LONG memories, and that seeing Blue Dog do "There's No Business Like Showbusiness" last year and him doing "Fever" could invite comments from the judges saying how he needs to try something new.

So, what am I stuck doing this year? BACH...something neither my coach nor I are thrilled with (Bach is great; I played him for years as a violist, but he's far from my favourite composer).

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

1. I recall that flamenco. Lane had Vanessa costumed with a dress that an ostrich would've been ashamed of and Paul's ridiculous outfit seemed way beyond his years. It's sorta when you realized that Lane's packaging problems ran more deeply than just a one off bad choice (which is wierd, because I always find her very well turned out)

2. Skatefiguring, while you might assert that Stoijko didn't get criticized for taking on traditionally Western Caucasian roles, I'd argue that he was in fact criticized for having a narrow artistic range (the lone hero type - Dragonheart, Braveheart, Last of the Mohicans, Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story). That's no difference than the criticism Lane receives when she chooses for Kharis/Asher/Ralph/Hill (just covering the bases). That the comments have a racial component isn't surprising - she often choses costumes/themes that make the racial component something worth remarking on. I don't think Lane obssesses about it, but I do think she acknowledges race (which is fair and I'd argue right) and practically dares the judges to disagree (Recalling how PJ and Carol mentioned it throughout and after the Olympic season).

 

[Dragonlady]

Lane doesn't have one costumer working on her skaters. Each team has their own costumer and, IMO, whoever is doing Kharis' dresses often misses the mark.

As for themes, Ralph & Hill also skated to Cinderella with Asher costumed as Prince Charming, so it's not like they're stuck in some black only rut.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

True, they did skate to Cinderella. I'd also argue that both their dances last year were less racially marked. So when you think of it, three of their last four dances have been done without a remarkable (as in worth remarking on) racial component. And given how successful these dances were (particularly their tango last season - a terrific piece of choreography, performed very well in Nice), I do look forward to what comes next.

Though I'm not looking forward to the Yankee Polka. I wish the seniors were doing midnight blues instead.

 

[Dragonlady]

I went through a period of time where it seemed that the Yankee Polka was the CD for every big event I went to. It's a fun dance when the top teams do it well. Unfortunately, by top teams I mean 4 teams out of a group of nearly 30 teams. The rest ranged from mediocre to incredibly awful.

Not my favourite CD.

 

[colleen o'neill]

I'm actually very surprised to learn that there isn't at least a main costume person working with the Lane school. I see the same mistakes and poor choices being made over and over.

I was greatly relieved to see the cut and fit of Kharis' Summertime dress and her Tango dress. I thought there must have been a change of costumer. ( Her SD dress last year was a different kind of bad).

I know I hope to never see her over fussily costumed again ..eg Cinderella and slightly less so, Marigold.

I don't know if it's multiple costumers with the same poor ideas re accessorizing , or if someone else "helps" with that , but you can see the same errors repeated with multiple couples.