Artist, Performer, or Jumper? Ladies Edition

[TheCzar]

I guess some people can say you can't pigeon hole skaters because it's a multi-dimensional sport but truth of the matter is, they can be IMO categorised under the three groups stated above. Since someone has already started a Men's thread, how about we start a ladies one? You can include skaters from any era, and inevitably some will appear more than once overall (although, VERY rare). Go crazy! Understandably, the recent field is too 'fresh' to label per skater because there will be room for development but some are pretty obvious. Don't take it too seriously, it's just a fun way of seeing the general consensus!

My list would be... (of the ones I know and like and off the top of my head)

Artist
-Michelle Kwan (DURRR)
-Mao Asada
-Yu Na Kim
-Carolina Kostner
-Yulia Lipnitskaia
-Joannie Rochette
-Akiko Suzuki
-Kiira Korpi
-Katarina Witt
-Oksana Baiul (Purely for her Saint-Saens EX)


Performer
-Michelle Kwan
-Yu Na Kim
-Carolina Kostner
-Tara Lipinski
-Kristi Yamaguchi
-Midori Ito
-Ashley Wagner
-Sasha Cohen
-Elena Radionova
-Alena Leonova
-Adelina Sotnikova
-Elizaveta Tuktamysheva




Jumper
-Midori Ito
-Yu Na Kim
-Mao Asada
-Miki Ando
-Tonya Harding
-Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
-Mae Berenice Meite
-Gracie Gold
-Agnes Zawadski (when she's on)

 

[Sandpiper]

Umm... the men's thread seemed made to celebrate diversity, to appreciate what many different skaters brought to the sport. And to share links to lesser-known performances that you enjoyed.

This thread seems to have no purpose other than putting people into boxes. Not that there's a problem with that, but it sounds like you didn't read the contents of the men's thread outside of its title.

 

[kwanatic]

I would agree with most of that, except Julia Lipnitskaya under the Artist category. I don't think she's done enough to be classified as an "artist" in the same category with Michelle, Mao, Yu-Na, etc. Her Schindler's List program was strong last year but one strong program does not an artist make. I don't know where I'd put Julia right now...probably under "Wow Factor" or something.

I'd add Adelina Sotnikova and Elizaveta Tuktamysheva to both the Performer category...Russia has a lot of strong performers. And I'd add Carolina Kostner to the Artist category too.

 

[Barb]

Artist

Daisuke Takahashi
Akiko S.
Mao A.
Michelle K.
Carolina K.

Performer

Sasha C.
Yuna
Yuzu
Tara
Ashley W.

Jumpers

Midori
Liza T.
Mao A.
Yuna
Yuzu

 

[mnm464]

I would agree with most of that, except Julia Lipnitskaya under the Artist category. I don't think she's done enough to be classified as an "artist" in the same category with Michelle, Mao, Yu-Na, etc. Her Schindler's List program was strong last year but one strong program does not an artist make. I don't know where I'd put Julia right now...probably under "Wow Factor" or something.

I'd add Adelina Sotnikova and Elizaveta Tuktamysheva to both the Performer category...Russia has a lot of strong performers. And I'd add Carolina Kostner to the Artist category too.

Same thoughts about Yulia from me as well. I have a lot of respect for her and her skill, but she has seemed to me a little cold and just starting to warm up and show the audience how beautiful of a performance she can give, alike to a flower opening in the winter. Otherwise this seems pretty "correct", but I'd like to include and agree with SandPiper that the Men's edition of the thread is celebrating the artist's despite what they do in competition.

 

[TheCzar]

I would agree with most of that, except Julia Lipnitskaya under the Artist category. I don't think she's done enough to be classified as an "artist" in the same category with Michelle, Mao, Yu-Na, etc. Her Schindler's List program was strong last year but one strong program does not an artist make. I don't know where I'd put Julia right now...probably under "Wow Factor" or something.

I'd add Adelina Sotnikova and Elizaveta Tuktamysheva to both the Performer category...Russia has a lot of strong performers. And I'd add Carolina Kostner to the Artist category too.

Literally, my computer was about to die and I wanted to post the thread before it did! LOL apologies. Worse case scenario for Julia, if she doesn't survive puberty- I'd keep her up there because of Schindler's List (probably as a vision of her potential)

Good idea about 'Wow Factor' but I would have put that under 'Performer' as a bullet point.

Sandpiper, but compiling a list like this, however crude and black and white it could look- doesn't it show you diversity? Especially because you can see which ladies contribute what to the sport.

"There are the artists, who interpret and move beautifully with the music, and fill our hearts with feelings to stay in the moment with them. They often have excellent skating skills and are high PCS earners.

There are the showmen, who are natural attention grabber, with antics and a flair for drama, often flamboyant, often comedic, and often they show us hot dance moves. They get the crowd cheering."

Kinda what the categories are for, just a little with a little bit more of an elaboration? In any case, feel free to write why you think a skater would be put under a category, or if the skater is obscure- celebrate her. Bottom line is, you still express what you like about her as a skater- qualities that you can categorise.

 

[mnm464]

Also looking back at the original list, I think that Yu Na is everything given her Imagine EX program for Sochi and the lark ascending. Maybe had she been drawn out of her shell sooner than when David Wilson did, we may have seen more of her artistic side.

 

[noskates]

I think there are only a few of those listed that actually fit entirely in the box you've put them in. I think Gracie, for example, is more than a jumper whereas Tonya Harding was ONLY a jumper. I don't know - don't think I'll participate in this thread.

 

[jenaj]

I would take Yuna Kim out of the Performer category. And personally, I don't experience her great artistry but accept that others do. Janet Lynn, Peggy Fleming, Carolina Kostner and Sasha Cohen should be in the artist category. Witt should not be. She was a Performer. Why isn't Oksana in the Performer category? And Oksana's artistry extended beyond just one exhibition. Where is Slutskaya? She was a jumper and a performer.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Artist
-Michelle Kwan
-Yu Na Kim
-Carolina Kostner
-Akiko Suzuki
-Janet Lynn

Performer
-Michelle Kwan
-Yu Na Kim
-Carolina Kostner
-Ashley Wagner
-Kristi Yamaguchi
-Sasha Cohen
-Elena Radionova
-Alena Leonova
-Katarina Witt

Jumper
-Midori Ito
-Yu Na Kim
-Mao Asada
-Miki Ando
-Tonya Harding
-Kristi Yamaguchi
-Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
-Gracie Gold
-Julia Sebestyen
-Tatiana Malinina
-Julia Lipnitskaia
-Elena Radionova
- Tara Lipinski


I'm a bit more narrow-minded in my view of what constitutes an artist.

For me, Kim is the only skater who legitimately deserves to be called all 3.

 

[Sandpiper]

TheCzar, whether you meant it that way or not, I believe this thread isn't taking on the same tone as the other one. Partially because you listed a bunch of people under categories, while SkateFiguring spent most of the opening post describing what these people's contributions; the list at the end is secondary. Partially because you've included the "jumper" category, which--intended or not--could be used to dismiss certain skaters.

Not that there's something wrong with the thread, but I don't see it as simply a female version of the other thread. The subsequent posts show that.

I feel that most skaters contribute to all the categories, to varying extents. No one would label Michelle Kwan a jumper, but she was instrumental to pushing the 7-triple LP into something done by all skaters, not just crazy people like Midori.

As for me, I would say that Oksana Baiul was the perfect blend of artist and performer. One of my favourite performances is her pro skate to Enigma's "Sadeness": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le17cE77xC4

 

[Violet Bliss]

I don't care what category anyone puts them in, but my favorite performers are Lu Chen, Oksana Baiul, and Katerina Witt. Carolina Kostner definitely matured into a great expressive artist as well.

Yuna, Mao, and now the young Russians are great skaters. I love seeing how these Russian girls will develop, as amazing as they are already at such young age.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Jumper
-Midori Ito
-Yu Na Kim
-Mao Asada
-Miki Ando
-Tonya Harding
-Kristi Yamaguchi
-Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
-Gracie Gold
-Julia Sebestyen
-Tatiana Malinina
-Julia Lipnitskaia
-Elena Radionova
- Tara Lipinski

I wouldn't have anyone on my list who didn't do all the jumps through the lutz, and do them properly. Ito, Ando, Harding, Liza, Gracie would be my list. I wouldn't add Elena or Julia either because I don't think they will have very good jumps at 18.

 

[Sandpiper]

I wouldn't have anyone on my list who didn't do all the jumps through the lutz, and do them properly. Ito, Ando, Harding, Liza, Gracie would be my list. I wouldn't add Elena or Julia either because I don't think they will have very good jumps at 18.

Ando and Gold are lippers. I certainly would have both on my list, but wouldn't they violate your "do them properly" criteria?

 

[Krunchii]

I would take Yuna Kim out of the Performer category. And personally, I don't experience her great artistry but accept that others do. Janet Lynn, Peggy Fleming, Carolina Kostner and Sasha Cohen should be in the artist category. Witt should not be. She was a Performer. Why isn't Oksana in the Performer category? And Oksana's artistry extended beyond just one exhibition. Where is Slutskaya? She was a jumper and a performer.

I think Yuna belongs in all three, her jumps are obviously a strong point, her artistry can be seen in Danse Macabre, the Lark Ascending, Send in the Clowns and her performance quality can be seen in James Bond and her exhibitions like Fever and All of Me

 

[Brenda]

While Carolina Kostner definitely ended her career as an artist, and was unfortunately known for her taking out the flip and lutz the past few years due to a ligament injury, she should also be remembered as a phenomenal jumper. Not in the explosive/wow sort of way like Ito or Harding, but how many women are there with such good technique that they could land a 3F+3T at the Olympics at 5'7" and 27 years of age.

Here's Carolina's Euros debut when she was 15. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8tbgIGhTko
She landed 3Z+3T, 3F+3T, and a 2A-half loop-3S sequence. Just a slight shame she doubled her opening triple loop so she changed her final triple salchow into a triple loop on the fly. Only five jumping passes too!
Her double axel technique improved so much since then, maybe some of the Russian girls should ask her for tips.

 

[jenaj]

I think Yuna belongs in all three, her jumps are obviously a strong point, her artistry can be seen in Danse Macabre, the Lark Ascending, Send in the Clowns and her performance quality can be seen in James Bond and her exhibitions like Fever and All of Me

I don't see her as a performer. There is a coolness about her. She certainly doesn't relate to the audience like a Bauil or even Ashley Wagner. As I said, I accept that people see her as a great artist. I don't.

 

[lady_bee]

I have a stupid question. What's the definition of performer? Maybe because of my poor English I 'm confused the definition of artist, performer, and entertainer.
For example, are ballet dancers are artists or entertainesr, or is it depend on each dancer in what way?

Anyway, if there was a category called "dancer",　I would put Akiko Suzuki in it for sure.

Also I want put Bonaly into jumper category, because, although her jumps were rough, they surely had "WOW factor"s.

 

[satine]

I have a stupid question. What's the definition of performer? Maybe because of my poor English I 'm confused the definition of artist, performer, and entertainer.
For example, are ballet dancers are artists or entertainesr, or is it depend on each dancer in what way?

Anyway, if there was a category called "dancer",　I would put Akiko Suzuki in it for sure.

Also I want put Bonaly into jumper category, because, although her jumps were rough, they surely had "WOW factor"s.

I think here, 'performer' is more like someone who can play to the crowd, get them riled up, or excited?

 

[solani]

I think there are only a few of those listed that actually fit entirely in the box you've put them in. I think Gracie, for example, is more than a jumper whereas Tonya Harding was ONLY a jumper. I don't know - don't think I'll participate in this thread.

Oh, I find this comment insulting!
No, seriously, Tonya Harding was and is many things, but "ONLY a jumper"? I would definitly not put her in the artist category, she wasn't graceful, but when she was on she was a fabulous performer with very good skating skills. Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOP3Dj0DraQ
I also wouldn't put Midori Ito into the jumper's only category, she was a very good performer as well.