Gold is the current national champ and has since beaten Wagner twice more. Yeah, I'd say she's US #1...
I really wanted Mirai to head to Sochi before I knew anything about American figure skating, but after watching a couple of past performances of Ashley, I did concede that it was reasonable to send her. Decisions are based on a body of work anyway, even before the huge argument at Nationals.
I am NOT a fan of Ashley, because I think she talks too much, and just says too much. The comment about her scores in Sochi was really un-classy...
Still, I do think that some of the comments about her by GS posters are a little tough. That girl is DETERMINED, and I appreciate that. It isn't easy skating with a ton of your own countrymen thinking you really shouldn't be there. Thick-skinned, that girl is. But her passion for the sport and for improving is really commendable, and I believe that that is really key to breaking through limitations placed on you by others, or seemingly by your body/self. I hope she improves. Her jumps... look difficult for her to me, if that makes any sense. They seem really... forced. I'm not sure how to put it, so I hope she can develop that grace that great jumpers have.
Question: I heard some people here mention that she needs to improve her spins... why? I though her spins in Sochi, especially her layback were beautiful? May I know what is wrong with them?
So, if Wagner had managed to slightly rotate her 3F a bit more and beat Gold at Worlds, instead of losing by a miniscule 1.42 points, all of a sudden your opinion would be changed? (Not to mention, Gold's PCS in the SP and FS were much higher than they should have been.) Wagner beat her by over 5 points in the FS, and even Edmunds beat her in the FS. Both her teammates beat Gold by over 5 points technically -- Wagner's TES in the FS: 63.64, Edmunds' TES in the FS: 66.39, Gold's TES in the FS: 58.58. Gold's PCS (even inflated) was less than a point higher than Wagner's in the FS, too. Wagner also outscored Gold in PCS in the SP, even with an error. I agree that Gold has the edge at this point, but "clear cut" should refer to things like Chan being the clear cut #1 over Reynolds, or Kostner being the clear cut Italian #1 over Marchei, or Asada being the clear cut Japanese #1 over Murakami and Suzuki (even if she lost Nationals to them).
Saying Gold is the clear cut US #1 is like saying Sui/Han is the clear cut Chinese #1 pair. Clear cut means definitively and with little doubt. A 1.42 point margin of victory isn't "clear cut", and it certainly doesn't guarantee that if Gold and Wagner competed at this very moment Gold would without any doubt come out on top (even if the past few results have been over Wagner).
Also, if you're going to deride Wagner for "coming only 7th at both Olympics and Worlds and never being in even remote contention for a medal", Gold herself wasn't even close to a medal in Sochi, and was well off the podium in Saitama (Wagner was less points from the Saitama podium than Gold was from the Sochi podium, btw). And at least Wagner stayed on her feet in Sochi and Saitama, which can't be said for Gold who had at least one fall (and often other errors) in all her international freeskates last season.
You honestly consider a skater who fell in every international competition last season, and who has yet to win any international competition, to be the clear cut, without-a-doubt, US #1... think about that.
Gold is the current national champ and has since beaten Wagner twice more. Yeah, I'd say she's US #1...
Regardless of whether Gracie is "just" #1 or a "clear cut" #1, she is #1 due to being the highest placing American in three consecutive important events (Nats, Olys, and Worlds). The PCS edge that Ashley had appears to be gone so she is going to have to match Gracie on TES to win. This is not going to happen unless Gracie makes errors, because a clean Gracie is going to score north of 70/135 with the international PCS she was getting at the end of last season.
But, based on the past season, Wagner's ability to skate a completely clean FS is currently about as reliable as Gold's. That's why there's no clear cut #1. Obviously on paper, Gold should beat Wagner every time, but that's depending on whether she skates well, which isn't always the case.
I guess I disagree with you there. If both are clean, Gracie wins and if both lose the same amount of GOE, Gracie wins. To me that's an indication of a clear cut #1. That a clean Ashley can beat a Gracie with multiple errors doesn't change that IMO.
But, based on the past season, Wagner's ability to skate a completely clean FS is currently about as reliable as Gold's. That's why there's no clear cut #1.
Thank you, Mathman. Especially the last part (lol, expecting everyone to go clean, even in the ladies' field).I have never really got these discussions about, "if so-and-so hadn't fallen down (but she did).." and "if so-and-so had skated better (but she didn't)…" and "who would win if they all go clean (but they won't)…"
Saying Gold is a clear cut #1 over Wagner if she hypothetically skates clean is like saying Adelina is a clear cut #1 over Julia (because if they both skate clean Adelina will win), or saying Mao is a clear cut #1 over Yu Na, because she will always defeat Yu Na if she has a clean SP + FS with 8 triples.
No, that is exactly why Gold IS the clear cut #1. For Ashley to even have a chance to beat her Ashley has to skate clean and Gold has to make mistakes. Your worlds example you hang onto you for all its worth in fact only proves that point. Ashley never skates clean herself either. The end.
I love how you focus non stop on only worlds, and ignore Nationals and the Olympics where finished a large number of points and several places ahead of Wagner. So in their 3 big meetings to end the year Gold won all 3, and only 1 of the 3 was relatively close, and Gold is not the solid U.S #1 now? Your constant what ifs about Wagner missing one jump, when it was one of her best competitions ever, and when Gold missed a whole bunch and still came out ahead, as the basis of your argument for Gold not being a solid #1 all since she "could have" (but didnt) lose to Wagner at worlds, are comical.
You also harp on how Gold missed chances to medal at the Olympics and worlds, especialy worlds. Atleast she had a chance to medal, especialy at worlds. Ashley had no chance to medal at either event, as the scores made quite clear. That also is why Gold is now the clear U.S #1.
So in their 3 big meetings to end the year Gold won all 3, and only 1 of the 3 was relatively close, and Gold is not the solid U.S #1 now? Your constant what ifs about Wagner missing one jump, when it was one of her best competitions ever, and when Gold missed a whole bunch and still came out ahead, as the basis of your argument for Gold not being a solid #1 all since she "could have" (but didnt) lose to Wagner at worlds, are comical.