Ashley Wagner making a statement against Russia's law

[LiamForeman]

By her saying so. Just like raised fists. I would support her expulsion.

Why? Since when was 'black power' considered political propaganda? I suppose only to those who didn't believe in black equal rights, no? I don't understand your point.

 

[gmyers]

Why? Since when was 'black power' considered political propaganda? I suppose only to those who didn't believe in black equal rights, no? I don't understand your point.

It's a political message - black power fist salute- so it being politics was not debatable.

 

[FS_rrb]

Bravo Ashley!

And I don't see this as political, religious or racial propaganda...it would be if she made a speech in Sochi or showed any kind of banner explicitly against Putin and "his" law, but giving her opinion and painting her nails is not propaganda at all. It's called freedom of expression.

 

[gmyers]

Bravo Ashley!

And I don't see this as political, religious or racial propaganda...it would be if she made a speech in Sochi or showed any kind of banner explicitly against Putin and "his" law, but giving her opinion and painting her nails is not propaganda at all. It's called freedom of expression.

That's not allowed from Olympic athletes! Their role is sports not political demostrations. She has said she won't be just doing nail polish. And just nail polish as political message is agianst the rules. They have no freedom of expression.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

She has said if she goes her main priority will be to campaign agianst laws that the host has passed. That's just a violation of IOC rules and Olympic charter.

She has said nothing of the sort. Read the article. She is finding forms of protest that are symbolic, and isn't going to campaign against the laws... you think her "main priority" might be - oh, I don't know - competing?

To be honest, I think Ashley realizes that the support she shows is way more important than any medal. If the IOC is going to strip her of a medal(s) over fingernails and earrings, in her mind she knows that everyone else knows she performed at the Olympics and what placement/medal she achieved. Athletes have been stripped of medals or disqualified for many negative things (steroids, cheating; or rules like false starts in athletics or interference in short track).

It would actually be pretty historic and a huge story of the Olympics if an athlete won a Olympic medal and then pulled a John Carlos... the IOC would be put in a bind -- either they let the skater have their say, or they strip the athlete of the medal and it ignites a firestorm of controversy. Ashley seems to be showing that standing up for what is just is way more important than any piece of metal given up on a technicality. And yes, it is brave, which is the whole point of it - she's inspiring LGBT people (including Russians) to be brave, and not simply submit to authority.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

That's not allowed from Olympic athletes! Their role is sports not political demostrations. She has said she won't be just doing nail polish. And just nail polish as political message is agianst the rules. They have no freedom of expression.

Isn't Hanyu crossing himself before he skates and V/T's Jesus Christ Superstar freeskate religious expression? How about when every Muslim athlete hears Masha'Allah while they compete from fans in the crowd?

I would LOVE to see the IOC attempt to strip Ashley of a medal or disqualify her (especially if she is the US champion going into Sochi) for wearing rainbow fingernails, and the ensuing media firestorm.

And if they actually tried to, I would really LOVE to see Ashley/other athletes defiantly respond, "Fine, whatever, take our medals. Everyone knows we won them anyways."

 

[Barb]

Exactly, The scandal would be bigger if they disqualify her. i dont think The olympic comite wants that, especially when They sell itself like an organization to show unit between everyone.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Exactly, The scandal would be bigger if they disqualify her. i dont think The olympic comite wants that, especially when They sell itself like an organization to show unit between everyone.

Hah, if a couple nightlock berries can topple Snow and the oppressive Capitol in Hunger Games, perhaps rainbow fingernails will bring Putin and Duma to its knees.

 

[LiamForeman]

Isn't Hanyu crossing himself before he skates and V/T's Jesus Christ Superstar freeskate religious expression? How about every Muslim athlete who hears Masha'Allah while they compete from fans in the crowd?

I would LOVE to see the IOC attempt to strip Ashley of a medal or disqualify her (especially if she is the US champion going into Sochi) for wearing rainbow fingernails, and the ensuing media firestorm.

Moreover, I would really LOVE to see Ashley/other athletes defiantly respond, "Fine, whatever, take our medals. Everyone knows we won them anyways."

Yep. And since when is speaking out for equal rights determined to be 'political'? Oh yes, I do know the great history of equal rights especially in the US of A. Women were considered infidels when they wanted to vote. Blacks were well, just not considered equal. 3/5 of a person I believe. And today gays are as always an abomination undeserving of equal rights. I guess I don't understand the word "political". Political to me is speaking out against Obamacare or whatever. Human rights to me is not political. It is MORAL.

 

[Tonichelle]

I don't think "Jesus Christ Superstar" really lends itself to true "religious" content

 

[LiamForeman]

It's a political message - black power fist salute- so it being politics was not debatable.

You see, you are making my point. Since when is Black Power considered 'political'??? They were celebrating their race. How is that political, unless you feel their race is inferior and advocate laws making them inferior? It's obvious you have the same blockage in your mind when it comes to gay pride. It's not political. It's celebrating who they are and how they were born.

 

[gmyers]

You see, you are making my point. Since when is Black Power considered 'political'??? They were celebrating their race. How is that political, unless you feel their race is inferior and advocate laws making them inferior? It's obvious you have the same blockage in your mind when it comes to gay pride. It's not political. It's celebrating who they are and how they were born.

I am not making your point. You don't seem to know that the black power salute was not just an expression of equal rights but even it was it wasn't allowed. You are not focusing on my point which is just the IOC rules! Everything Wagner is saying she will do eveything the black athletes did in 1968 is/was against the rules. They are there for sports. In 1968 they weren't expelled because everyone in the IOC was racist or hated black people its just the Olympics and the podium were not the venue for that expression. It's not allowed.

Crossing yourself Is not proselytizing or religious propaganda. The black power salute and Wagner saying she will pain her nails in a campaign of support to repeal some laws In russia is against the rukes. If they want to repeal it- that's great.

 

[ForeverFish]

I'm so proud of Ashley for standing up for her convictions, even in such subtle ways as wearing rainbow-colored nail polish and earrings. What a strong and courageous woman -- she is the very sort of athlete that Team USA wants bearing its banner. I can't imagine her missing the Olympic team at this point, but I'll keep my fingers crossed for her anyway.

ITA with the posters who've said that anything can be (mis)construed as propaganda. When Catholic/Christian skaters cross themselves and quietly (but publicly) pray upon taking the ice, should they be targeted for spreading inflammatory religious beliefs? Some would say yes. The distinction is unclear. If Ashley's fashion choices truly cause her grief next month, then the entire Olympic committee will face severe criticism for not adequately protecting its athletes. After all, rainbow-colored gear is a far cry from marching into the Kremlin and slamming one's fists on Putin's desk, demanding that he reverse the legislation.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I don't think "Jesus Christ Superstar" really lends itself to true "religious" content

Well I do always mutter "Oh, Lord..." every time I see it.

 

[Tonichelle]

Well I do always mutter "Oh, Lord..." every time I see it.

more in "taking the Lord's Name in vain"... so... again...

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I am not making your point. You don't seem to know that the black power salute was not just an expression of equal rights but even it was it wasn't allowed. You are not focusing on my point which is just the IOC rules! Everything Wagner is saying she will do eveything the black athletes did in 1968 is/was against the rules. They are there for sports. In 1968 they weren't expelled because everyone in the IOC was racist or hated black people its just the Olympics and the podium were not the venue for that expression. It's not allowed.

Crossing yourself Is not proselytizing or religious propaganda. The black power salute and Wagner saying she will pain her nails in a campaign of support to repeal some laws In russia is against the rukes. If they want to repeal it- that's great.

You should probably see it the way she probably sees it - her nails aren't aimed to repeal laws (obviously fingernails aren't going to make Russian homophobes change their mind)... her nails are in support of LGBT equality in Russia (which is in light of these laws). She's not a diplomat or political figure. That's why Obama chose to send Boitano/King/Caho - gay athletes - because it's the ATHLETES that are the face of the games, and thus they are the voices who need to support Russian LGBT people.

As ForeverFish points out, there are people who would consider crossing yourself or a program that worships Christ as showing affiliation or support of a particular religion (just like painting your fingernails is showing support of LGBT people). What do you think should happen if an athlete, post-competition, has won a medal and dedicates it to all LGBT people? They should be stripped of it? Banned from the Olympics?

And as hard as it is to believe, there are Olympians who are human beings before they are Olympians, and they will defy IOC guidelines to stand against discrimination. Instead of whining that they're breaking IOC rules, maybe consider why they are willing to do so in the first place - i.e. they believe enough in a cause and the triviality of the Olympics compared to human rights.

Many would rather meddle than medal.

 

[RABID]

By her saying so. Just like raised fists. I would support her expulsion.

When someone risks personal repercussions for a worthy cause we accept it as part of the cost. Liberty has never been cheap. But you sound almost passionate in your opposition and her deserved punishment and that is just sad. If you don't believe in her cause that is fine, but just shake your head and say you don't agree. The Olympics has a sad history of cynical and infamous political behavior that has been predominately about oppression. I tend to be less forgiving about that.

 

[Jammers]

Ashley needs to keep her mind on the competition coming up not being savior of the world.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Ashley needs to keep her mind on the competition coming up not being savior of the world.

So, prior to competition, skaters should abstain from any charity events then? They should avoid all interviews so that they can keep their mind on the competition?

 

[gmyers]

I'm so proud of Ashley for standing up for her convictions, even in such subtle ways as wearing rainbow-colored nail polish and earrings. What a strong and courageous woman -- she is the very sort of athlete that Team USA wants bearing its banner. I can't imagine her missing the Olympic team at this point, but I'll keep my fingers crossed for her anyway.

ITA with the posters who've said that anything can be (mis)construed as propaganda. When Catholic/Christian skaters cross themselves and quietly (but publicly) pray upon taking the ice, should they be targeted for spreading inflammatory religious beliefs? Some would say yes. The distinction is unclear. If Ashley's fashion choices truly cause her grief next month, then the entire Olympic committee will face severe criticism for not adequately protecting its athletes. After all, rainbow-colored gear is a far cry from marching into the Kremlin and slamming one's fists on Putin's desk, demanding that he reverse the legislation.

You are mixing the stated and the hypocritical. It's not hypothetical that Wagner plans political statements in Sochi when she's just supposed to be an athlete representing her county. Not a political activist visiting russia who plans to skate some.