Boitano's "Lincoln" Program (CoP Discussion)

[TontoK]

I took a few moments today to watch Brian's 1993/94 long program to Lincoln/Appalachian Spring.

Although I don't believe it was ever skating to its maximum potential, I believe the program itself is a masterpiece, one of my all time favorites.

One of my favorite things is the exquisite spread eagle sequence. He picks up speed and then delivers a rock steady serpentine spread eagle at center ice. There is not one moment of unsteadiness or wobble. It is magnificent. A few moments later he delivers that prolonged outside edge spread eagle that seems to go on forever; his body line is straight as an arrow, and the lean backwards into the deep edge is a thing of beauty.

I believe CoP has brought some good things to skating, but I think it has also taken away. We're unlikely to see a top flight skater devote 20-30 seconds or so to a move so basic, no matter how beautifully it is done. Although it is a choreographic highlight, I suppose from a CoP point of view, he's devoted a chunk of his program to not moving his feet at all... no turns, no footwork, no transition. I doubt it would be looked kindly upon, and that is a shame.

I'm not sure why I even bring this up now. Just nostalgic, I suppose, watching a favorite program from a favorite skater.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I LOVE that program. The biggest criticism I have of COP programs is that there is no room for exquisite, musical simplicity, like that serpentine spread eagle sequence. Or Rohkamo and Kokko's simple knee bends in a straight line sequence from their Finlandia program. Or the shuffle step sequence in Torvill and Dean's Mack and Mable program. Or Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen's spirals. Big loss for programs today. Big sigh.

 

[pointyourtoe]

Can someone tell me which program it was where he did the spread eagle with his hands grasping his neck dramatically? It's such an orgasmic spread eagle lol

 

[Olympia]

Boitano had a particular affinity with Copland's music. And his spreadeagles were a thing of majesty. He once did an entire (professional, of course) program based only on spreadeagles. Yes, it's too bad there's no room for such skating in CoP. It's another reason I'd like to see a healthier professional skating scene, where such skating could be explored. Thanks for starting this thread!

 

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

What does everyone think of taking out one jumping pass, say keeping all other jump requirements the same (types of jumps allowed etc.) and while retaining the choreo. sequence change it slightly to allow skaters time to skate instead of having to go right back into jumps. Maybe even changing the step sequence rules so its less rigid and skaters have the opportunity to cut the sequence in half and instead be able to do other move in the field.

I remember the link to a video that someone posted of a spiral with a change of edge in half a figure eight pattern that Yulia did years ago (2010?) that was held for over 12 seconds. It would be incredible to see the spirals and other moves in the field people could do today if they were allowed to time to develop them in the program. Have we actually seen a great spiral sequence since 2006? (I basically ignored ladies and men skating for that entire quad.

 

[Mathman]

Here is a change edge, change direction spiral that goes on for about 15 seconds. (Also a pretty good change edge spread eagle following a split falling leaf )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ0reeUnAmE&t=2m19s

Here is Boitano's World Pro program based on the spread eagle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-B5YrRaB8w

I don't think skaters acquire the skills needed to skate like this any more.

 

[TontoK]

I don't think skaters acquire the skills needed to skate like this any more.

I agree. Not that they are not capable, but I think they just don't focus on skills like these because they don't garner a lot of points.

Although moves like the ones discussed are quite basic, they differentiated the good skater from great.

An old gripe: Same thing with spins. Why put in the effort to master a truly special layback spin, only to rack up a L1? From a points perspective, it's better to contort oneself into four unattractive positions than it is to make the classic position glorious.

 

[Olympia]

Here is a change edge, change direction spiral that goes on for about 15 seconds. (Also a pretty good change edge spread eagle following a split falling leaf )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ0reeUnAmE&t=2m19s

Here is Boitano's World Pro program based on the spread eagle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-B5YrRaB8w

I don't think skaters acquire the skills needed to skate like this any more.

Thanks so much, Math!

As to your comment about how skaters don't acquire those skills any longer: one move that Katia Gordeyeva does is to skate on one foot and sort of stop and slide into another direction. I'm sure there's a name for this move, but I don't know it. I am equally sure that Katia's blade control is not learned by many (or any) skaters of today. Their loss, and ours.

 

[sowcow]

.

As to your comment about how skaters don't acquire those skills any longer: one move that Katia Gordeyeva does is to skate on one foot and sort of stop and slide into another direction. I'm sure there's a name for this move, but I don't know it. I am equally sure that Katia's blade control is not learned by many (or any) skaters of today. Their loss, and ours.

Do you mean a sort-of 'scraped counter/rocker' that throws up a bit of snow? (...it's the best description I can think of). The sort of move that requires great blade control (as it would not take much to 'catch' the edge causing a hard & awkward face-plant)!

For example, a skater could be in a R back outside spiral position and do a 'scraped counter' to a R forward outside spiral {new curve/arc} position.

 

[TontoK]

Scraped 3-turn spiral...

I'm sure I recall Robin Cousins doing that.

 

[Olympia]

Thanks, Tonto and Sowcow! I know just enough to call a move "that thing." I also have a vague memory of Cousins doing something like that, now that you mention it. I'm so glad he has an OGM; such a stylish, elegant skater, and he only got better as a pro when he could really let loose. John Curry, Toller Cranston, and Cousins were the greatest of their generation as far as I'm concerned (stretching the time-frame a bit to fit Cousins in for argument's sake, though he was really about ten years younger).

 

[TontoK]

Thanks, Tonto and Sowcow! I know just enough to call a move "that thing." I also have a vague memory of Cousins doing something like that, now that you mention it. I'm so glad he has an OGM; such a stylish, elegant skater, and he only got better as a pro when he could really let loose. John Curry, Toller Cranston, and Cousins were the greatest of their generation as far as I'm concerned (stretching the time-frame a bit to fit Cousins in for argument's sake, though he was really about ten years younger).

I'm not sure about age wise... but Cousins won gold in the very next Olympics after Curry and Cranston. That's close enough to be a "generation."

And, by the way, I completely agree with you, about their being the best. One of my favorite short programs is Robin's 1980 Olympic program, every element so elegant, neat and tidy. I really like the diagonal step sequence. It is so light and musical and fitting with the program. It's probably L1 by today's standards. Perversely, it was the fall on this step sequence in the World's after Olympics that caused him to miss out on a WC Gold to complete his set.

If you haven't watched this, give yourself a treat. Even better, with Dick Button's commentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj8DY0J3dAA

 

[Mathman]

If you haven't watched this, give yourself a treat. Even better, with Dick Button's commentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj8DY0J3dAA

What a delight! Thanks for the post. Now we know where Alexei Yagudin got his footwork sequence for Winter.

The double jumps that skaters did back then were very satisfying. Note how Robin completes the rotation n the air, then stops the rotation in the air, and then drops down to the ice for the landing. Is it really an advance in the sport to struggle to get in an extra two-thirds of a rotation so you can skew around and call it a triple?

Same with the spins. On the combination spin, no helter-skelter, just each classic position spotlighted in turn.

 

[Olympia]

Oh, man, awesome! That footwork was beyond belief. His sit spins are immaculate, so crisp. The camel, and that death drop! Thank goodness Cousins won, because no one else in that competition was remotely in his league.

 

[anthologyz]

that magnificent leap in his death drop! it almost looks slow motion in its suspension. skating now seems so cluttered in comparison.

 

[rollerblade]

Gosh! That East of Eden program/performance was simply sublime. More please.

 

[TontoK]

that magnificent leap in his death drop! it almost looks slow motion in its suspension. skating now seems so cluttered in comparison.

Yes! That's the word I was grasping for to describe this style of skating. Uncluttered.

 

[skatedreamer]

Boitano had a particular affinity with Copland's music. And his spreadeagles were a thing of majesty. He once did an entire (professional, of course) program based only on spreadeagles. Yes, it's too bad there's no room for such skating in CoP. It's another reason I'd like to see a healthier professional skating scene, where such skating could be explored. Thanks for starting this thread!

I remember that program based on spreadeagles -- was it the one w/ "Music of the Night" from "Phantom?" Whatever the music, the program was all kinds of wonderful.

Funny that TontoK brought this up b/c I was searching for Boitano's Calgary LP on YouTube last night & couldn't find it. Still remember watching it and how my jaw hit the floor when he did a complete circle w/ a spreadeagle toward the end of the program. So gorgeous that by comparison, the jumps seemed like mere icing on the cake.

Missing Michelle's and Sasha's spirals, too. (sigh)

Edit -- just saw the link for the spreadeagle program; thanks so much. Will watch tonight, and also the others. I'm @ work & can't watch now; it's killing me! :disapp: