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- Jun 27, 2003
you know, if you look at his schedule this year, he's not doing much with skating, I think he's slated for two shows and CSOI and that's it, the rest of his time is being spent on other interests...
Brian Joubert goes to Platov in NJ
- Thread starter Joesitz (RIP)
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Kurt leaves Joubert
I bet the reason is Kurt's good pal jeffrey Buttle. Kurt did say "Jeffrey Buttle is the best skater on the planet, now I can say jeff is the best skater in the world". So maybe he will be working with Jeff. Although jeffrey has an amazing chore. in that Wilson guy. Jeff's sp and lp at Worlds was perfect. Jeff's spins and footwork is perfection. His jumps were great too. Now jeff is working on quads. :yes:........Here's hoping jeff win win more.
I bet the reason is Kurt's good pal jeffrey Buttle. Kurt did say "Jeffrey Buttle is the best skater on the planet, now I can say jeff is the best skater in the world". So maybe he will be working with Jeff. Although jeffrey has an amazing chore. in that Wilson guy. Jeff's sp and lp at Worlds was perfect. Jeff's spins and footwork is perfection. His jumps were great too. Now jeff is working on quads. :yes:........Here's hoping jeff win win more.
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- Oct 20, 2006
I think that the discussion has really raised Kurt's value in choreography department. I don't think Kurt's talent in choreography is as good as his talent in skating, performing, and commentating. Kurt's program for Abbott showed it. And I don't think leaving Kurt will truly hurt Brian's chance for the gold in 2010. JMO.
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Kurt perhaps would not want the bad press, should Joubert win the Olympics in Vancouver with one of Kurt's programs. There were, AFAIR, nasty things said about Sandra Bezic when Bezic choreographed Brian Boitano's routines and then beat Brian Orser in Calgary. This always seems worse in an Olympic year. I very much doubt that Buttle will leave Wilson. It's been such a successful collaboration.
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but we aren't in an olympic year....
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Yes, but it wouldn't be fair to a skater to let him down at Olympics. I'd hate to think Kurt would do that. This gives Joubert this year and next.
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Kurt is working with Joannie Rochette this month to help her up the ante in her jumping department. I remember Kurt saying "3-3 is all about timing between jumps and she shouldn't rush into 2nd 3toe" after Joannie's SP at Nationals. So, I suspect that he is helping her getting 3-3.
I'm not sure if Kurt is helping Jeff, though. I hope he does.
I'm not sure if Kurt is helping Jeff, though. I hope he does.
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- Dec 11, 2006
JMO, but there are three plausible reasons/explanations.
One, is that Kurt was unable to meet a specific deadline that Brian wanted. If Brian wanted his choreo done by, say, end of May, Kurt may have had other commitments that prevented that timing. This seems really unlikely -you would expect the people involved to work out some other timetable, if they really wanted to work together. (“I can’t see you this weekend because my sister is getting married, what about the week after?”). Kurt has helped Brian a lot, so you would expect that he would be flexible or at least to set up something later on in the summer – we are talking months before the season starts. The story, to my reading doesn’t suggest that this will happen and we are left to conclude that the working relationship between Brian and Kurt is over.
Secondly, there is the “family reasons” excuse. I’m pretty cynical about that. Short of some unexpected and really serious situation (grave illness, death, marriage breakup), no one is unavailable indefinitely. Yes, Kurt has two kids but so do millions of other people who still manage to work at full-time, 9 to 5 jobs. We are talking about setting aside maybe a couple of weeks where the client (Brian) would come to you, and some of the work could be done from home – listening to music, discussions, etc. And this isn’t a case where a new client is being turned away, but backing out of an existing relationship where both parties told the press, just a few months ago, that they would be working together next year and beyond.
Apparently, there is no Gotta Skate show this year, and according to fumie fumie, Kurt is now working with Joannie. But still no time for Babou?!?
Then, there is politics. Kurt’s livelihood depends on maintaining a golden public image. He could take a major hit if he were seen to be working with the No. 1 contender to unseat Jeff, and it actually happened, given the boost in popularity that Jeff has enjoyed since winning Worlds. Kurt doesn’t have to work with Jeff (and, as someone pointed out, Jeff is doing nicely with D. Wilson), but he can’t work *against* him. JMO, but I think that Kurt would still be working with Joubert if anyone other than Buttle had won worlds. Or if Joubert was just another contender (Lysacek, Lanbiel,Weir) as opposed to the most likely threat to dethrone Buttle. Brian’s comments after Worlds probably didn’t help, either.
DorisPulaski makes an excellent point about the bad publicity received by Bezic. But she was not still skating in shows, interested in endorsements, etc., or in commentating for a Canadian network, as is Browning. Remember that Toller Cranston got fired from CBC as a commentator for not being sufficiently enthusiastic about Canada’s skaters.
The press would have a field day constructing a story around Kurt helping Brian, his motives, his own Olympic history, etc. Look how fast Lloyd Eisler went from hero to goat, in the eyes of the public.
FWIW, I don’t think this was Kurt’s idea. Most skaters (even the pros) seem to live pretty sheltered lives. I don’t know the man, but from the reports I’ve heard, Kurt is a great and kindly guy but not exactly the brightest crayon in the box. So I’m guessing that he was either told by Skate Canada or his management (take your pick) of what might happen if he continued working with Brian.
Just my .02 worth
One, is that Kurt was unable to meet a specific deadline that Brian wanted. If Brian wanted his choreo done by, say, end of May, Kurt may have had other commitments that prevented that timing. This seems really unlikely -you would expect the people involved to work out some other timetable, if they really wanted to work together. (“I can’t see you this weekend because my sister is getting married, what about the week after?”). Kurt has helped Brian a lot, so you would expect that he would be flexible or at least to set up something later on in the summer – we are talking months before the season starts. The story, to my reading doesn’t suggest that this will happen and we are left to conclude that the working relationship between Brian and Kurt is over.
Secondly, there is the “family reasons” excuse. I’m pretty cynical about that. Short of some unexpected and really serious situation (grave illness, death, marriage breakup), no one is unavailable indefinitely. Yes, Kurt has two kids but so do millions of other people who still manage to work at full-time, 9 to 5 jobs. We are talking about setting aside maybe a couple of weeks where the client (Brian) would come to you, and some of the work could be done from home – listening to music, discussions, etc. And this isn’t a case where a new client is being turned away, but backing out of an existing relationship where both parties told the press, just a few months ago, that they would be working together next year and beyond.
Apparently, there is no Gotta Skate show this year, and according to fumie fumie, Kurt is now working with Joannie. But still no time for Babou?!?
Then, there is politics. Kurt’s livelihood depends on maintaining a golden public image. He could take a major hit if he were seen to be working with the No. 1 contender to unseat Jeff, and it actually happened, given the boost in popularity that Jeff has enjoyed since winning Worlds. Kurt doesn’t have to work with Jeff (and, as someone pointed out, Jeff is doing nicely with D. Wilson), but he can’t work *against* him. JMO, but I think that Kurt would still be working with Joubert if anyone other than Buttle had won worlds. Or if Joubert was just another contender (Lysacek, Lanbiel,Weir) as opposed to the most likely threat to dethrone Buttle. Brian’s comments after Worlds probably didn’t help, either.
DorisPulaski makes an excellent point about the bad publicity received by Bezic. But she was not still skating in shows, interested in endorsements, etc., or in commentating for a Canadian network, as is Browning. Remember that Toller Cranston got fired from CBC as a commentator for not being sufficiently enthusiastic about Canada’s skaters.
The press would have a field day constructing a story around Kurt helping Brian, his motives, his own Olympic history, etc. Look how fast Lloyd Eisler went from hero to goat, in the eyes of the public.
FWIW, I don’t think this was Kurt’s idea. Most skaters (even the pros) seem to live pretty sheltered lives. I don’t know the man, but from the reports I’ve heard, Kurt is a great and kindly guy but not exactly the brightest crayon in the box. So I’m guessing that he was either told by Skate Canada or his management (take your pick) of what might happen if he continued working with Brian.
Just my .02 worth
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In Kurt's defense, both Joannie and her coach Manon Perron traveled to Kurt's main club to learn from Kurt, as opposed to him going to Montreal. I don't think the team Rochette is taking too much time away from him and his family, though.
Kurt went into all the technical details about what Joannie should be doing to nail 3-3 during the national coverage. So it is hardly surprising that Joannie decided to seek his help.
Kurt went into all the technical details about what Joannie should be doing to nail 3-3 during the national coverage. So it is hardly surprising that Joannie decided to seek his help.
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Why all the conspiracy theories? Maybe they didn't want to work with each other anymore.
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Just to clarify... a lot of Joubert fans seem to be upset at the sudden switch and how it may impact Brian. Some have called Kurt "unprofessional" and I don't think that's fair, because IMO, Kurt does not really have full control here, for reasons in my earlier post.
The article says that Brian was now going to New Jersey to work with Platov, instead of Toronto, so like Joannie, he was willing to travel to Kurt and not the other way round. So that's not a helpful distinction.
But
to Joannie for seeking Kurt's advice
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I don't think that Skate Canada can really tell a choreographer or a coach or a skater - what to do. They may put the pressure on, but in the end the decision is up to the individual. Take Patrick Chan for example. Skate Canada powers that be apparently tried to put pressure on Patrick to work with a particular coach after his own coach, Osbourne Coulsen died. Sources close to Patrick say that Skate Canada also tried to remove some of his funding or sponsorship as a result. Patrick stuck to his guns, continued to train with Don Laws -- and what happened? He won the Canadian title over Jeff Buttle. So now who is brown nosing all over Patrick's camp? Bet it's the powers that be at Skate Canada.
Kurt is not dependent upon Skate Canada sponsorship or funding. I know he is working with skaters from other countries, along with lower level Canadian skaters. And, I know he is really busy. Don't forget he is involved with the program at the Granite Club as well. Kurt also has a stellar reputation with the public and draws crowds based just on his name alone. So dumping a foreign skater or working with a untalented skater - won't affect his reputation.
All the great choreographers are from Toronto now - Lori Nichol, David Wilson, Kurt Browning - and require most of their world famous elite clientele to come to Toronto to work with them, rather than the choreographers going to the skater which was the norm in the past. It just takes too long to travel these days and does take time away from their familes and other clients.
BTW I know there are other great choreographers outside of Toronto - but Lori and David had the most medallists at World's I think!
So perhaps Brian was just too difficult to please, or not willing to compromise his time in order to work with Kurt -- or was still mad at him for the program that didn't maximize his GOE's and follow the new rules!
Kurt is not dependent upon Skate Canada sponsorship or funding. I know he is working with skaters from other countries, along with lower level Canadian skaters. And, I know he is really busy. Don't forget he is involved with the program at the Granite Club as well. Kurt also has a stellar reputation with the public and draws crowds based just on his name alone. So dumping a foreign skater or working with a untalented skater - won't affect his reputation.
All the great choreographers are from Toronto now - Lori Nichol, David Wilson, Kurt Browning - and require most of their world famous elite clientele to come to Toronto to work with them, rather than the choreographers going to the skater which was the norm in the past. It just takes too long to travel these days and does take time away from their familes and other clients.
BTW I know there are other great choreographers outside of Toronto - but Lori and David had the most medallists at World's I think!
So perhaps Brian was just too difficult to please, or not willing to compromise his time in order to work with Kurt -- or was still mad at him for the program that didn't maximize his GOE's and follow the new rules!
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Yes, immensely popular foreign skater. Remember Brian at 2007 SC. Come to think of it, pretty much all the French skaters are popular in Canada (Carron/Jost and Brian Joubert to name a few).
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This would make an excellent STAT after each competition as well as for COACH. Should it be used for Juniors separately?
Stat for the PCS highest
Stat for the Technical highest
In 2008 Worlds, I can understand Lori and David being the choreographers of gold medalists, but I would like to see other names as well listed. Did Morozov have multiples?, and of course, Orser whose skater won the LP.
I also think silver and bronze medlists choreographers should be listed if they won the PCS.
Maybe this information will assist in predicting future Podium Results - not unlike horse racing bets, is it? :yes:
Joe
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Yuna Kim may have Brian Orser as her coach of record, but David Wilson is the choreographer that works with her constantly at the club in Toronto where she trains........so David deserves more of the credit. Not to say that Brian hasn't done some wonderful programs for other skaters I know.
I agree that French skaters have been very well received in Canada. Canadian fans love good skating and for the most part, don't care who the choreographer or coach is as long as the skater excites them and gives their all!!
I agree that French skaters have been very well received in Canada. Canadian fans love good skating and for the most part, don't care who the choreographer or coach is as long as the skater excites them and gives their all!!
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- Jun 27, 2003
I would normally agree, but do we know what Sonia's schedule looks like? Maybe she's getting ready for a big performance and they're working around her instead of him?
Way to go Tonichelle
Yes, there are marriages that have to work around two careers. Way to go, Tonichelle, for pointing this out!
Re the "not the brightest crayon" - I have actually never gotten that impression. As a commentator, for example, Kurt seemed to take to it very quickly and be able to formulate his words with speed. That would imply a level of intelligence...
Linny
Yes, there are marriages that have to work around two careers. Way to go, Tonichelle, for pointing this out!
Re the "not the brightest crayon" - I have actually never gotten that impression. As a commentator, for example, Kurt seemed to take to it very quickly and be able to formulate his words with speed. That would imply a level of intelligence...
Linny
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- Jun 27, 2003
I agree, I wouldn't put Kurt in the category of "dumb Jock"...
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Nice try, but no cigar. These days, *most* marriages work around two careers. Plus, Sonia has said in interviews that her mother helps out a lot *and* they have a nanny. Which is a luxury that many other 2 career marriages do not have. So even if there was a particularly busy time in her schedule, it should only be a short term issue for Kurt. Otherwise, on your reasoning, Kurt could never take on a job whenever his wife is working. Which is ridiculous, considering that she has to take class every day and has other duties with the ballet company.
This goes back to my point #1 and the post made by redhotcoach - maybe Brian was not flexible enough to work around Kurt's short term commitments. Certainly possible, but IMO it would be short-sighted on Brian's part, not to mention not very classy to tell the press that Kurt had basically left him high and dry on a week's notice.
On your second point - there is a *world* of difference between being very knowledgeble and quick about your own area of expertise, as compared to what goes on outside of it.
BTW, a lot of on air commentary is pre-scripted. No one knows skating better than Kurt and he is very well spoken and knowledgeable about the skating world. However, this ability and being good with fans does *not* mean that he is particularly worldly or sophisticated when it comes to business matters. [There are exceptions - Paul Wylie and Kat Witt come to mind.] The "brightest crayon in the box" mark (perhaps a bit unfair, in hindsight) was made in this context. Kurt has people to manage hs image, career and his PR and he presumably acts on their advice.
I agree with the previous poster(s) who said that stopping work with Brian now will probably not damage Kurt at this stage at all (save for some disaffected Joubert fans). The situation may be very different in one year or two, if Jeff's popularity continues to soar and the rivalry with Joubert intensifies. There will be a media frenzy around the 2010 Games, especially since they will be held in Canada. I supect that many people on this board are too young to remember the saturation coverage surrounding The Battle of the Brians. As DorisPulaski pointed out, Kurt could be at risk of some very bad press down the road.
Fact is, there are people whose job it is to plan for these contingencies. That's what agents and managers get paid for.
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Oh my gosh!!!! What a scandal that would be!!Next will be the announcement that Kurt is working with Patrick Chan!
Dee
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