China's pairs situation...just come right out and say it

[ice_magick]

Why did China qualify 3 pairs for Junior Worlds but not send anybody? The answer, IMO (I've had an ominous feeling about this for quite a while.) is there is nobody! Yes, sure, probably there are some 11-year-olds at the trining facility in Qiqihar or wherever that have the talent. But until they come of age, there is no one! Once S/Zh, P/T and Zh/Zh leave the scene, there is nobody! Ding/Ren have been around at least as long as Zh/Zh and have achieved about 1/4 as much. Zhang/Zhang may grow up to become the next S/Zh, repeat World Champions. In fact, I have confidence that they will.(I love Zhang/Zhang!)
But in reality I think the pairs situation is like ice on a lake in 36-degree weather.It covers the whole lake, but when it melts it will melt fast and there will be nothing underneath.

Just speculation.

 

[Matt]

I don't think it's an issue of China not having talent...the fact that their skating programme has gone from Chen Lu et al. to having skaters in all four disciplines shows that China has the talent and the four pairs teams show that China will be a force in pairs. Plus, if China treats pairs like they do gymnastics, they will single-handed make themselves into a dynasty.

The issue, I think, is China is being selective, maybe too selective. Remember, China's still a Communist country, and just like we saw with the Soviet Union, they may HAVE the teams to send, but they will only be sent if the federation is sure that they will produce.

Also, IIRC, listening to the commentary of one of the GP competitions, Peter Carruthers made the comment that they are really only four pairs teams in China (which would be Shen/Zhao, Pang/Tong, Zhang/Zhang, and Ding/Ren, as far as I can tell). So, China may feel that the upcoming teams they have aren't quite ready to send to competitions and will try to squeeze more miles out of the teams they already have

As I see it, at least...

 

[mzheng]

I read in their disscussion board BinYao dose have some young pairs. But he weren't sent them out until they are ready to medal or win.

 

[mpal2]

Also, IIRC, listening to the commentary of one of the GP competitions, Peter Carruthers made the comment that they are really only four pairs teams in China (which would be Shen/Zhao, Pang/Tong, Zhang/Zhang, and Ding/Ren, as far as I can tell).

From what I remember, Peter said they are four pairs teams out of thousands. He was kidding around about the thousands, but I have a feeling that there are several teams.

I agree that he is waiting until they can win or medal.

 

[Mathman]

I read in their disscussion board BinYao dose have some young pairs. But he weren't sent them out until they are ready to medal or win.

I wonder what is the best strategy for up and coming skaters. Would it be better to throw them into high level competition as soon as possible, just for the experience? Or should a coach hold them back until they are ready seriously to compete for the medals?

Mathman

 

[mzheng]

I wonder what is the best strategy for up and coming skaters. Would it be better to throw them into high level competition as soon as possible, just for the experience? Or should a coach hold them back until they are ready seriously to compete for the medals?

Mathman

He might think by competing with current top Chinese pair teams, these young teams can gain enough experience. Were P/T and Z/Z made their first appearance at International scene remarkable? Besides with 3 senior team at the top of the worlds BinYao is quite busy, he must concentrate on senior worlds now.

But I'm not sure if those young teams are truely coached by BinYao. He is now the head coach of national FS pairs devision, may be he just pair the young team up, let others coach them. I read that when they pair a team up, they have both skater do psylogical test to see if the boy and girl really suit each other.

 

[Ladskater]

Probably did not think they were ready. It's better to gain experience in the jr. ranks first. I am sure China has a strategy.

 

[Ptichka]

Probably did not think they were ready. It's better to gain experience in the jr. ranks first. I am sure China has a strategy.

Lad, but the discussion was exactly about the teams China sends to Jr. Worlds.

 

[Matt]

China (apparently) changed their minds or other extenuating circumstances came up. India qualified a skater to send to Jr. World also, but she did not end up attending (though as the Indian Federation is new, I suspect that the issue was money)

 

[Ladskater]

Ptichka:

Oops....still maybe they were not ready this season for the jr. worlds. It's not always wise to rush training. I am sure next season we will see them.

 

[dorispulaski]

As the original post said, 3 pairs were qualified for this year, due to last year's great showing by Ding and Ren and Zhang and Zhang. Since no pairs are sent this year, I presume next year China could only send one pair?

The only thing this tactic seems to achieve is to save money for the program that can be used for training rather than travelling and competing. Possibly there is a thought that if pairs are mediocre, they will not be allowed to travel, and that therefore they will work harder over the next season.

Help me out, because the logic is not hitting me. I would have thought they would send at least one pair, because I am sure they have someone that could hit top ten, and at least keep 2 pairs qualified.

dpp

 

[berthes ghost]

Doris, maybe it's about saving face.

Right now, China is riding high in senior pairs. By sending 3 immature pairs that might not medal to jr., China sends a message that the empire may end once the big 4 move on. By waiting a year and then sending a (hopefully) improved pair that can medal or even win, they are sending a message that they will be a force in skating for years to come.

As it is, jrs. is filled with college age Russians who are bottlenecked and can't pass on to seniors.

I don't think it's about travel either, as they didn't send anyone to jr GP either, and soem of those were very close (like Japan).

Does anyone know how old these Chinese juniors are?

 

[mzheng]

The only thing this tactic seems to achieve is to save money for the program that can be used for training rather than travelling and competing. Possibly there is a thought that if pairs are mediocre, they will not be allowed to travel, and that therefore they will work harder over the next season.

This could be one of several reasons.

Does anyone know how old these Chinese juniors are?

Read in the same board that most pairs were 11/12 kids. But someone contracted that BinYao have some eligible ones, but he didn't want to send them for above reason.

The talks there were that in general they don't have good coaches. Like BinShu's coach got critisized heavyly there.

 

[berthes ghost]

Really? I was very impressed with Binshu at jr. worlds. She didn't finish well, but I thought that she had a lot of potential. Waht were the complaints about her coach? (if you don't mind me asking)

 

[mzheng]

Really? I was very impressed with Binshu at jr. worlds. She didn't finish well, but I thought that she had a lot of potential. Waht were the complaints about her coach? (if you don't mind me asking)

I'm sorry, it was not BinShu's coach. It was FangDan's coach got complained. Some very serious accusation against that coach, I hope it was not true. But who knows it could be the case.