Civil wars in ice dancing - wonderful rivalries this season

[Skater Boy]

The title civil wars should evoke battles within in a nation. They don't necessarily have to be all that evil; it can be just great competitive skating inthis case. And this year we have some great rivalries and great skating especially I am thinking in ice dancing. In most cases, from what I can see, other than Spain, the two battling teamsfor excellence will still get to go to Worlds but I would be interested in encouraging some discussion and thoughtson what we have seen and will soon see of dualing teams/skaters.

I honestly don't know what to say or make of the battle in Spain because I like both teams. On any given day I feel either team could beat the other. I guess we h ave to go by Euros? Whoever goes has the pressure to earn 2 spots. As good as either team is I would normally say no problem to earn two spots. But with 3 Americans, 3Canadians, France, Italy and 2Russians clearly ahead and from what we have seen most likely the Danadians. They are in a battle with the Brits and maybe a couple of Eastern Euro teams for the final positons to earn spots.

i love the battle of the Madisons and their partners. Both are so good and world medallist contenders. These teams keep flipping back and forth for US supremacy between them and both are very good with their own flair. CB have the momentum it would appear and more fitting FD which might be key but HD are the defending world silver medallist and won it fairly comfortably last year. Madison C is such a diva; I do love her but you can't count out HD. They won everything until the return of CB.

In Russia we also see the leap frogging This one I can't say who is ahead. SB v. SK. Both teams are vulnerable to errors. On SK his twizzles are either unbridled passion or a hot mess. SB really have a nice theatrics = hmmm was Bukin's dad part of the very theatricl Bestmianova and Bukin??? These teams will be battling each other and the Americans and most likely the Italians and maybe Canadians for silver and bronze come Worlds

Canada has a lovely rivalry brewing. Gilles and Porier have been on the cusp of moving ahead of Weapo for a while and even beat them last year at Nats. They are unique and that has cost them in the past. Piper has improved a lot but is noticeably weaker than Paul who may be the best male ice dancer right now. Weapo are more of the traditionalist though very beautiful some say this may cause them to get lost come worlds. Aren't as lyrical perfect as the French. not as dramatic as Choc and bates. Not as innovative as Gilles and Porier. Not as technically strong as Hubbell and Donahoe. But having skated with Virtue and Moir has improved them overall it appears. They are the defending bronze medallists and who knows. The wow factor of Giles and Porier's FD is rememiscent of anotherr Canadian Duo from 2006 Dubreil andLauzon whose FD was a head turner.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I think those 'civil wars' will be crucial this year to determine who will win silver and bronze at Worlds. Teams who won USA, CAN and RUS 'civil wars' will be 2nd, 3rd and 4th at Worlds. Just my speculation tho - its hard for the judges to 'pick the placements' in this system, but this would be preferable outcame for them I guess

 

[blue_idealist]

Hurtado/Khaliavin are going to Worlds for Spain and Smart/Diaz are not. It's too bad they don't have two spots.

 

[TontoK]

See, now this is a fun thread!

After being a firm H/D supporter for years, I'm all in on C/B. That Elvis program is wowza.

When W/P did their tango Free Dance, I preferred them to V/M. Now I'm on Team G/P. W/P have become too "artsy message driven" for my taste, and G/P have completely changed my mind about them.

I'm less opinionated on the Russians, but I'll go with S/K.

The defining factor? I like these teams' programs more. I'm not an ice dance expert, so I root for the most entertaining program.

 

[Skater Boy]

Hurtado/Khaliavin are going to Worlds for Spain and Smart/Diaz are not. It's too bad they don't have two spots.

I agree but they have a good chance a earning two spots for 2020. Still honestly on any day I am not so sure if one team is dominant.

 

[Skater Boy]

See, now this is a fun thread!

After being a firm H/D supporter for years, I'm all in on C/B. That Elvis program is wowza.

When W/P did their tango Free Dance, I preferred them to V/M. Now I'm on Team G/P. W/P have become too "artsy message driven" for my taste, and G/P have completely changed my mind about them.

I'm less opinionated on the Russians, but I'll go with S/K.

The defining factor? I like these teams' programs more. I'm not an ice dance expert, so I root for the most entertaining program.

Better than me I can't decide who I like better with any of these nations. US, Canada and Russia add Spain as well. I love GPs free dance. It is fresh,stylish, unique and heart felt but I just love Weapo and I kind of feel for them being so close so often. And the American oh my such a gift in both teams - ditto for Russia and all the skaters are so beautiful too not that that should matter. I know fence sitter.

 

[blue_idealist]

I agree but they have a good chance a earning two spots for 2020. Still honestly on any day I am not so sure if one team is dominant.

Yeah, they're pretty up and down. I prefer H/K but enjoy both.

 

[composer]

I’m also interested in lower down on the US totem pole so to speak - three pairs of former World Junior Champions and also a pair of silver medalists who could potentially have been world junior champions if they had stayed junior for another year (am I counting correctly) duking it out for supremacy. Hawayek and Baker may be comfortably ahead for now but who knows what the future will bring? More World Junior Champions?

 

[litenkyckling]

I’m also interested in lower down on the US totem pole so to speak - three pairs of former World Junior Champions and also a pair of silver medalists who could potentially have been world junior champions if they had stayed junior for another year (am I counting correctly) duking it out for supremacy. Hawayek and Baker may be comfortably ahead for now but who knows what the future will bring? More World Junior Champions?

I think the competition between P/P, M/C and C/P is and will continue to be really exciting - my own personal preference is C/P but I do think that at this point all three are pretty equal with one another. I also think that L/L will be an interesting direct competition with these three when they make the move up to senior (which I'm assuming will be next season?). I would say that the way things are going just now, these teams will be really interesting come the 2022-2026 cycle.

 

[Weathergal]

See, now this is a fun thread! After being a firm H/D supporter for years, I'm all in on C/B. That Elvis program is wowza.

I feel the same way!

I love GPs free dance. It is fresh,stylish, unique and heart felt but I just love Weapo and I kind of feel for them being so close so often. And the American oh my such a gift in both teams - ditto for Russia and all the skaters are so beautiful too not that that should matter. I know fence sitter.

Yep.

I think the competition between P/P, M/C and C/P is and will continue to be really exciting - my own personal preference is C/P but I do think that at this point all three are pretty equal with one another. I also think that L/L will be an interesting direct competition with these three when they make the move up to senior (which I'm assuming will be next season?). I would say that the way things are going just now, these teams will be really interesting come the 2022-2026 cycle.

I also prefer Carreira / Ponomarenko although I think C / P and McNamara / Carpenter are close, I think that Parsons / Parsons trail those two a bit. I like all three teams and am also excited about some of the upcoming teams like the Browns. I agree that it will be interesting to see the competition between these middle-ranked US Senior teams and Lajoie / Lagha.

 

[1904sk8]

All the top teams right now are on the older end with most of their average ages being around 25 or older. Surprisingly p/c are the youngest of the top teams. P/c (and maybe s/b but he would be 33) are the only current top team who age wise could stick around for 2026 but I think it is extremely unlikely because the isu generally doesn't like when teams stick around at the top for so many cycles plus if they get their OGM pray in 2022 there really isn't really any reason for them to want to stay longer. After 2022 I think we will see the current mid-level US teams and L/L along with some current russian juniors become the top teams. I personally think that h/b are not going to break into those top teams until either h/d or c/b retire (especially with the shibs possibly coming back) which probably won't be until 2022 and by then I think they might be too old to gain momentum with the US having so many good younger teams that will be seasoned seniors by then.

 

[Colonel Green]

All the top teams right now are on the older end with most of their average ages being around 25 or older. Surprisingly p/c are the youngest of the top teams. P/c (and maybe s/b but he would be 33) are the only current top team who age wise could stick around for 2026 but I think it is extremely unlikely because the isu generally doesn't like when teams stick around at the top for so many cycles plus if they get their OGM pray in 2022 there really isn't really any reason for them to want to stay longer. After 2022 I think we will see the current mid-level US teams and L/L along with some current russian juniors become the top teams. I personally think that h/b are not going to break into those top teams until either h/d or c/b retire (especially with the shibs possibly coming back) which probably won't be until 2022 and by then I think they might be too old to gain momentum with the US having so many good younger teams that will be seasoned seniors by then.

I'm not sure what's going to happen with Russia or P/C, but I think the changeover in North America post-Beijing is going to be truly enormous. Weaver/Poje may or may not even go that long, but if they do, all of the current Canadian podium I expect will retire post-2022, and the same with the Americans (as well as the Shibutanis, if they come back).

 

[1904sk8]

I'm not sure what's going to happen with Russia or P/C, but I think the changeover in North America post-Beijing is going to be truly enormous. Weaver/Poje may or may not even go that long, but if they do, all of the current Canadian podium I expect will retire post-2022, and the same with the Americans (as well as the Shibutanis, if they come back).

I agree. Everyone on both podiums (maybe not h/b) are on the older end of the spectrum right now. I don't think WeaPo will make it to 2022, they will probably retire after the 2020 worlds in Canada. Russia has a lot of potential in younger teams so I don't think the current podium will be able to stay dominant after this quad. P/c don't have any competition in France and I don't see them ever getting any by the looks of their junior teams so they could stay past 2022 as their countries #1 I am just not sure they will want to.

 

[tabsy]

In juniors this season, there is a exciting 'civil war' between Shevchenko/Eremenko and Ushakova/Nekrasov (both RUS) They finished 1-2 at JGPF with a 0.01 point difference, but S/E took the win at Junior Russian Nationals by a larger margin. However, U/N just posted huge huge scores at the Open Ice Mall Cup this weekend. At last year's JWC, U/N got the bronze and S/E finished 5th. Who will come out on top at JWC next week?

S/E have to age up at the end of this season as he (Igor) is 21, but U/N will be eligible to stay junior next season.

For those who don't follow juniors (if that's you, follow juniors! Ted Barton commentary! More skating! Insights into the future!), their RDs:

Shevchenko/Eremenko

Ushakova/Nekrasov

 

[dorispulaski]

The American civil war continues in US juniors with three excellent young teams, who all have updated fan fests so it is easy to check them out.

They all are likely to be in juniors for quite some time since junior eligibily for dance is:

Skaters must be older than 13 and less than 19 (or less than 21 for male pair skaters and ice dancers) by 1 July of the previous year.

Caroline Green & Gordon Green, age 15 and 17, who won Junior Nationals this year. This is a very powerful, precise team, very recognizable as being a Wheaton team. They have 4 more years of junior eligibility, as both have fall birthdays.

Avonley Nguyen & Vadym Kolesnik, age 16 and 17, who can do 3 more junior seasons since Avonley's birthday is after July 1st. They won a JGP this year, qualified for the JGPF, despite only being in their second season skating together. Igor Shpilband has not been this excited about a junior couple he has coached since D/W and V/M. They have great style, drama, and passion.

Oona Brown & Gage Brown age 14 and 16, and training in Hackensack, NJ, of all places. They earned silver at LPID and bronze in Adv. Novice Bavarian Open 2018, and so had their first JGP season this year, where they impressed with great musicality and a unique style (perhaps learned in part from their Ice Theater of NY involvement). They have 5 more years of junior eligibility, as both have fall birthdays.

I wonder whether these teams will stay where they are, or whether they will migrate to Montreal or Detroit.

The third place US Jr team, who is going to Jr. Worlds, is Gropman & Somerville. is in their last year of junior eligibility. I wonder whether they will give it a shot in seniors or not.

Ted Barton is the bomb! And the JGP videos stay up, seemingly immune from youtube deletion, probably because their channel has music licenses, and they own the broadcast rights.

 

[Lutzlvr]

Gropman and Somerville have one more year of junior eligibility. They skated beautifully at US Nationals.

 

[dorispulaski]

That is, indeed, the best I have ever seen them skate. I wish them luck at Junior Worlds.