Coach Rundown

[TheGrandSophy]

After enjoying figure skating on and off throughout my life in a very spasmodic way, I got more heavily invested during the Winter Olympics and then by watching a lot of Worlds too. So here I am, eager to learn more. I know a bit of basic stuff picked up over the years, but have been reading various threads for hours now and my head is spinning.

So here is the topic of my first thread! I would appreciate knowledgeable posters' views on the world of coaches, especially any or all of the following:

1) Who are the top coaches in the various disciplines today, say top 5? What makes them specifically special?
2) What are the virtues of different coaches? What are their weaknesses?
3) Which skaters would be better off with a new coach? Who and why would that change be more specifically beneficial in your opinion? Who would you choose? Why would they suit the skater better or what would they bring out of them that their present coach is not doing?
4) Which coaches are over-rated or under-rated? Why?
5) Who have done wonders with unlikely material and who have wasted raw talent by doing all the right or all the wrong things?

Thanks. I'm looking forward to all the views and hopefully being able to piece together more about coaches than that Morazov dates all his skaters. ;-)

 

[Bonnie F]

I would say that some are top singles coaches are (in no particular order):
1. Brian Orser (Hanyu, Fernandez, previously Kim and many others).
2. Frank Carroll (Gold, Ten, previously Kwan, Lysacek, Kostner and many others).
3. Alexei Mishin (Tuktamysheva, Plushenko, previously Urmanov, Yagudin and many others).
4. Tatiana Tarasova (Kovtun, previously Yagudin, Asada, Arakawa, G/G, G/P, B/B and many others) - she also could count for pairs and dance but i think she is semi retired?

For Ice Dance:
1. Marina Zueva (D/W, V/M)
2. Alexander Zhulin (B/S, previously N/K and others)
3. Nikolai Morozov (I/K, previously many others)
4. Barbara Fusar-Poli (multiple european teams)

For Pairs
1. Nina Mozer (V/T, S/K, B/L)
2. Yao Bin (P/T, previously S/Z, Z/Z)
3. Tamara Moskvina (previously gold medalists V/V, M/D, K/D, B/S) she may now be retired - not sure.

I do think several of the coaches listed above are over rated and have benefited from their reputations and the students they've had but I'll defer to other more knowledgeable fans as to the virtues of each coach and the other interesting questions you've posed.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Eteri Tutberidzi : she is establishing herself quite nicely IMO!

Yulia Lipnitskaya (2014 European champion and 2014 Olympic champion in the team event)
Evgenia Medvedeva(2014 World Junior bronze medalist)
Adian Pitkeev(2014 World Junior silver medalist)
Sergei Voronov (since mid-2013)(2014 European silver medalist)
Moris Kvitelashvili
Polina Tsurskaya

Former students:

Kamilla Gainetdinova (as a singles skater)
Polina Korobeynikova (as a child)
Yulia Li
Polina Shelepen(two-time JGP Final silver medalist) Coached from age four until July 2012.
Elizabet Turzynbaeva

 

[composer]

Off topic but just had to say I love The Grand Sophy!

 

[dorispulaski]

I take it you are a Georgette Heyer fan, Sophy?


Ice dance- Igor Shpilband should be in everyone's top 5 list. He is without doubt the best dance technical coach today.
C&L, P&B, C&B. He was also, with his ex business partner, Zoueva, key to the development of B&A, D&W, and V&M.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Thanks Doris^. Go C/L

Here is an article about Voronov changing to Eteri and how he felt reborn. Great story told straight from the skater about his coach!
http://www.absoluteskating.com/index.php?cat=interviews&id=2014voronov

 

[Barb]

Morozov is a coach overrated

 

[Alba]

Morozov is a coach overrated

He gets some good results though. Unfortunately.

 

[pamela]

He gets some good results though. Unfortunately.

I like his choreo tho

 

[Ryan O]

He gets some good results though. Unfortunately.

And also causes partnerships to break up. Unfortunately.

 

[Barb]

I like his choreo tho

For me his coreography is the most annoying, I think the only good thing about him like coach is that he motivates very well may be. And Their students with good results I think could to do better with another coach, you know, his students were simply good. He did nothing with Javier and Amodio.

 

[Alba]

And also causes partnerships to break up. Unfortunately.

That's why the unfortunate part.

 

[Antilopa]

I like his Winter for Yagudin

 

[BlackPack]

I think most of the current greatest coaches have been mentioned.

I'll mention some of the coaches from the past. By no means is this a definitive list.

Ice dance: Muriel Zazoui (French dancers including P&B, A&P, D&S), Natalia Linichuk and Karponossov (first half of Grishuk and Platov's career, K&O, DomShabs, B&A, many others), Natalia Dubova (Usova and Zhulin), Tarasova (G&P, K&P, many many others including other disciplines)

Pairs: Moskvina (Legendary coach of K&S, M&D, B&P, K&D, B&S), Ingo Steuer (did an amazing job with S&S)

Singles: Jutta Mueller (Witt, Poetzsch, German ladies), Frank Carroll (how he hasn't already been mentioned is beyond me, Fratianne, Chin, Kwan, Gold, Lysacek, Goebel, Bowman, etc, despite his decades of coaching his students didn't win OGM until Lysacek in 2010, although a few came close), Galina Zmievskaya (Baiul, Petrenko, Weir), Machiko Yamada (Japanese ladies including Midori Ito and the Asada sisters, many others) Nobuo Sato & Daughter Yuka (many major Japanese skaters)

CARLO FASSI was a huge name for many, many years until the 90s when he died. The only person to coach more Olympic Champions is Tarasova, I believe. He was known for his politicking abilities.

I think Morozov is a talented choreographer. Before there was this complex mess of COP footwork, his footwork choreography was refreshing and passionate but this complexity in the early 2000s ultimately led to the current trend of excessive footwork complexity with no relevance to the music. For whatever reason, Morozov has garnered many results where other coaches failed. His background may only be ice dancing but he proved he is able to coach the technical singles as well. His philandering ways have eclipsed his true abilities unfortunately. He also seems to have very good relationships with skating Federations and knows how to politick on behalf of his students well.

 

[nimi]

Frank Carroll (how he hasn't already been mentioned is beyond me

Don't worry for Frank, he was mentioned in the 1st answer to OP's question

Krylova and Camerlengo (eg. W/P) haven't been mentioned yet, I think?

 

[BlackPack]

Don't worry for Frank, he was mentioned in the 1st answer to OP's question

Krylova and Camerlengo (eg. W/P) haven't been mentioned yet, I think?

Thanks... I missed it. My bad.

Krylova and Camerlengo are my favorite ice dancing coaches at the moment. I really think they are able to help their teams technically as well as consolidate their personal styles. Other coaches try to make their skaters act like someone else and not help them bring out their personalities like Krylova and Uni do.

 

[TheGrandSophy]

Yes, Composer & Dorispulaski, Heyer fan here and probably my fave is The Grand Sophy. Sparkling wit; excellent female protagonist; funny background characters and fast-moving, fun plot. Heaven.

Thanks so much for the answers so far. All the stuff in this thread will be a useful reference tool as I continue to watch.

So, how does say Orser compare to Carrol or Tarasova? Do they have different strengths that you guys have noted?

Also, how do some coaches coach more than one discipline? Isn't it a very different skill set to train dance and, say, singles?

 

[nimi]

^ After far too many pages of silly feuding, a recent Plushenko thread ended up discussing Mishin vs Tarasova, so you might want to check it out:
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...t-Kovtun-is-a-good-average-skater-quot/page17

Ice dance definitely requires special coaching expertise!

 

[TheGrandSophy]

That is indeed very interesting, nimi. Thanks. Orser and Tarasova are not regarded as developmental coaches then? Who are?

 

[BlackPack]

Yes, Composer & Dorispulaski, Heyer fan here and probably my fave is The Grand Sophy. Sparkling wit; excellent female protagonist; funny background characters and fast-moving, fun plot. Heaven.

Thanks so much for the answers so far. All the stuff in this thread will be a useful reference tool as I continue to watch.

So, how does say Orser compare to Carrol or Tarasova? Do they have different strengths that you guys have noted?

Also, how do some coaches coach more than one discipline? Isn't it a very different skill set to train dance and, say, singles?

Orser achieved much more success (2 OGM) in a much shorter time frame than Carroll and Tarasova. Tarasova's strength was finding a skater's special magic or IT factor as well as giving the skater the necessary political clout to at least be noticed and be judged more favorably. Tarasova is really the only coach who has coached or choreographed for all disciplines. However, based on Tarasova's more recent comments, she seems to be going senile while Orser and Carroll are still sharp.

Tarasova was able to cross disciplines in that her students were already masters of their craft when they came to her. G&P were already the fastest dancers ever known to ice dancing at the time. K&P were already artistic and already had OG medals under their belts. Yagudin already did thousands of quads when he switched to her. Furthermore, it was about leadership and delegating to the right specialists. Essentially, Tarasova took on students who were previously developed by other coaches who were lesser known, had less political clout, but had more technical skills.

Orser was also very close to becoming OGM twice himself, but alas, the Canadian curse, while Carroll and Tarasova were never the top elite skaters. I believe they both were on the podiums in their nationals, but they were not great competitors and thus chose coaching in a relatively young age.

If you watched The Skating Lesson's interview with Frank, you will hear that he didn't care for politicking which may have cost Fratianne the OGM.

Like Carroll with Kwan, Orser also had a major star of a pupil (Yuna) leave him and left the skating community dumbfounded.